Pavement or road?
Discussion
Hi Guys
I'm hoping someone can clarify something for me. At the entrance to many of the minor roads where I live in Glasgow, the road surface has been raised up to the level of the pavement. I had always assumed that this was to aid wheelchair users and prams etc... so they didn't need to bump up and down pavements when crossing the road. However, pedestrians seem to treat these as extensions to the pavement and don't bother checking for cars turning into the street before they cross.
As per the HC, I always give way to pedestrians crossing the street into which I am turning, but it's getting to the point where I now slow to a crawl or stop if there's a pedestrian within a few yards of the kerb, and wait until I know they've seen me before making the turn.
Can someone clarify whether these raised areas are part of the pavement or part of the road?
Cheers
Phil
I'm hoping someone can clarify something for me. At the entrance to many of the minor roads where I live in Glasgow, the road surface has been raised up to the level of the pavement. I had always assumed that this was to aid wheelchair users and prams etc... so they didn't need to bump up and down pavements when crossing the road. However, pedestrians seem to treat these as extensions to the pavement and don't bother checking for cars turning into the street before they cross.
As per the HC, I always give way to pedestrians crossing the street into which I am turning, but it's getting to the point where I now slow to a crawl or stop if there's a pedestrian within a few yards of the kerb, and wait until I know they've seen me before making the turn.
Can someone clarify whether these raised areas are part of the pavement or part of the road?
Cheers
Phil
Presumably the raised section stretches right across the road left to right?
If so then it would appear it is traffic calming measure to assist pedestrians as you mention and also to slow drivers down at junctions. Without any additional markings like a Pelican Xing then the onus is on both parties:
Rule 146 Highway Code
Take extra care at junctions. You should watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians as they are not always easy to see,
watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
Further rule for Pedestrians:
Stop just before you get to the kerb, where you can see if anything is coming. Do not get too close to the traffic. If there is no pavement, keep back from the edge of the road but make sure you can still see approaching traffic.
At a junction. When crossing the road, look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you.
dvd
If so then it would appear it is traffic calming measure to assist pedestrians as you mention and also to slow drivers down at junctions. Without any additional markings like a Pelican Xing then the onus is on both parties:
Rule 146 Highway Code
Take extra care at junctions. You should watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians as they are not always easy to see,
watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
Further rule for Pedestrians:
Stop just before you get to the kerb, where you can see if anything is coming. Do not get too close to the traffic. If there is no pavement, keep back from the edge of the road but make sure you can still see approaching traffic.
At a junction. When crossing the road, look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you.
dvd
Hi dvd
The raised section does indeed stretch right across the road from left to right, and there are no additional markings.
I always give way to pedestrians who have started to cross, but I'm now giving way to pedestrians who are still a yard or two from starting to cross because I know that only a few will look up, and of those the majority just keep walking anyway.
If only. They just keep walking straight across the road without even raising their eyes from the ground. I'm sure they only do this because the raised road surface leads them to believe they are still on the pavement, as I haven't observed this lemming-like behaviour at other "conventional" road junctions.
I guess, as you say, the onus is on both parties. I just like to know where I stand should I cross in front of a pedestrian and he walks into the side of my car, injuring himself and/or damaging the car.
Dwight Vandriver said:
Presumably the raised section stretches right across the road left to right? If so then it would appear it is traffic calming measure to assist pedestrians as you mention and also to slow drivers down at junctions. Without any additional markings like a Pelican Xing then the onus is on both parties:
The raised section does indeed stretch right across the road from left to right, and there are no additional markings.
Dwight Vandriver said:
Take extra care at junctions. You should watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians as they are not always easy to see,
watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
I always give way to pedestrians who have started to cross, but I'm now giving way to pedestrians who are still a yard or two from starting to cross because I know that only a few will look up, and of those the majority just keep walking anyway.
Dwight Vandriver said:
At a junction. When crossing the road, look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you.
If only. They just keep walking straight across the road without even raising their eyes from the ground. I'm sure they only do this because the raised road surface leads them to believe they are still on the pavement, as I haven't observed this lemming-like behaviour at other "conventional" road junctions.
I guess, as you say, the onus is on both parties. I just like to know where I stand should I cross in front of a pedestrian and he walks into the side of my car, injuring himself and/or damaging the car.
They're one of those annoying "safety" features that ultimately make things worse.
A normal drop kerb at the edge of the pavement at junctions is all that's needed for wheelchairs, pushchairs etc and has the advantage of giving a distinct demarkation to the road / pavement interface that alerts pedestrians to take care.
These raised walkways across the junction just (a) cause pedestrians to "switch off" and (b) cause vehicles grief as they try to pull away or turn in.
They've just put one of these across the road I need to turn into to drop my daughter off at nursery. Its like the north face of the Eiger and means I have to come to almost a complete stop and crawl over it (blocking traffic on the main road whilst I do so) to avoid grounding out.
Doubly dangerous as the many very young children who are to be found here (there's a primary school as well as a nursery) just see it as part of the pavement and thus forget to apply their green cross code.
A normal drop kerb at the edge of the pavement at junctions is all that's needed for wheelchairs, pushchairs etc and has the advantage of giving a distinct demarkation to the road / pavement interface that alerts pedestrians to take care.
These raised walkways across the junction just (a) cause pedestrians to "switch off" and (b) cause vehicles grief as they try to pull away or turn in.
They've just put one of these across the road I need to turn into to drop my daughter off at nursery. Its like the north face of the Eiger and means I have to come to almost a complete stop and crawl over it (blocking traffic on the main road whilst I do so) to avoid grounding out.
Doubly dangerous as the many very young children who are to be found here (there's a primary school as well as a nursery) just see it as part of the pavement and thus forget to apply their green cross code.
A "speed bump" outside a local railway station is often treated as an automatic right-of-way by pedestrians. On one memorable occasion (posted elswehere on SP&L) a young BiB insisted I had failed to give precedence to a pedestrian at the "pedestrian crossing". For quite some time he refused to accept that white triangles painted on the "speeed bump" did not a pedestrian crossing make, and the absense of Belisha beacons or traffic signals did not convince him either. Eventually, a more senior BiB explained the error of his ways - Streaky
Funny how behaviour changes in our society.
Years ago I was advised by eldest bro who at that time was a mere Sgt in traffic section that in your situation, i.e. approaching a junction and upon observing a pedestrian on the pavement who may not have noticed you and may be aiming to cross the side road, that it was good practice to give a short audible warning to make them aware and lift their head.
In those days, 70s iirc, it had the desired effect. Sadly reaction today is increasingly that the pedestrian continues walking often accompanied by an expletive that one should "Go forth and multiply."
Years ago I was advised by eldest bro who at that time was a mere Sgt in traffic section that in your situation, i.e. approaching a junction and upon observing a pedestrian on the pavement who may not have noticed you and may be aiming to cross the side road, that it was good practice to give a short audible warning to make them aware and lift their head.
In those days, 70s iirc, it had the desired effect. Sadly reaction today is increasingly that the pedestrian continues walking often accompanied by an expletive that one should "Go forth and multiply."
There's a similar set up on High Street Ken in London. It has exactly the same effect - pedestrians continue, seemingly oblivious to the fact they are crossing a road.
When turning into the side-road, there's nothing or it but to yield to any peds who step out.
On coming out of the side road, a toot is in order as you have priority over crossing peds.
Obviously, if the peds who have priority can be persuaded not to step out then then no longer have priority as there's no conflict...
When turning into the side-road, there's nothing or it but to yield to any peds who step out.
On coming out of the side road, a toot is in order as you have priority over crossing peds.
Obviously, if the peds who have priority can be persuaded not to step out then then no longer have priority as there's no conflict...
vonhosen said:
bond-007 said:
Are there any recorded cases of peds been done for jay walking or crossing a road in a dangerous manner?
There is no offence of jay walking in England.
I wish there were... It does work in my own country.. (I may be married to Englishman und regard Cumbria which I simply adore as "home from home"... but I still like to keep my national identity .. my birth right - why I refer to Switzerland sometimes as "home/own country" - even though am British citizen through my marriage.)
Back to jay-walking. I think Austria, Germany und Switzerland have saved many a life through this law too. Also .. if some one ist run over .. the jay walking aspect ist also taken into account.. for compo und prosecution processes.
I thus think OK law as it really does create personal responsibility.
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