Looks like I'm gonna join the club!!!
Discussion
After much pondering I'm gonna go for it!!!! still not 100% with the other half yet......95% there.........I'm working on her :-)
I have a few ?'s if you guys could help me, cheers.
1. How well will a 500hp engine last compared to say TVR speed six!!! or 355? (great car's but....)
2. Are there any chaps on here running a 500hp engine that would be willing to take me out?? (I live in Solihull) I would be very grateful (I own a Lancer Evo5 around 320 hp and that is very very fast and really can't believe that a 500hp Ultima would be much quicker) I need to be shown.
3. I intend to ring Ted this week and check the factory out. I also fancy putting the idea forward for creating a full 3d photographic model/animation of the car (I'm a 3D artist) like the Tuscan on Tvr's site but mine will be much better :-) with all engine and interior details. I think this would be an interesting project and owners/prospect buyers would find it very interesting, any thoughts?
4. Is the engine/gearbox build very hard? fitting clutch etc...looks complex.
5. I'm thinking of spending around £40,000 will this be enuff for a good spec 500hp car?
6. Have many of you gone for a Stack dash? and if so had many problems with installation?
That's all for now, many thanks for your help.
Andy
I have a few ?'s if you guys could help me, cheers.
1. How well will a 500hp engine last compared to say TVR speed six!!! or 355? (great car's but....)
2. Are there any chaps on here running a 500hp engine that would be willing to take me out?? (I live in Solihull) I would be very grateful (I own a Lancer Evo5 around 320 hp and that is very very fast and really can't believe that a 500hp Ultima would be much quicker) I need to be shown.
3. I intend to ring Ted this week and check the factory out. I also fancy putting the idea forward for creating a full 3d photographic model/animation of the car (I'm a 3D artist) like the Tuscan on Tvr's site but mine will be much better :-) with all engine and interior details. I think this would be an interesting project and owners/prospect buyers would find it very interesting, any thoughts?
4. Is the engine/gearbox build very hard? fitting clutch etc...looks complex.
5. I'm thinking of spending around £40,000 will this be enuff for a good spec 500hp car?
6. Have many of you gone for a Stack dash? and if so had many problems with installation?
That's all for now, many thanks for your help.
Andy
Andy,
1. How well will a 500hp engine last compared to say TVR speed six!!! or 355? (great car's but....)
Well enough. From experience I'd say that the Chevy was probably a bit more durable. I'd say a better comparison would be with the Chevy and the Rover V8 and having had several of those, they're pretty good too. The main thing is that they're relatively cheap to maintain and repair which certainly isn't the case with a Speed Six or a Ferrari lump!!
2. Are there any chaps on here running a 500hp engine that would be willing to take me out?? (I live in Solihull) I would be very grateful (I own a Lancer Evo5 around 320 hp and that is very very fast and really can't believe that a 500hp Ultima would be much quicker) I need to be shown.
lol! You can't believe that the Ultima is faster than a Lancer
In the wet you may be right, but even then, it's more to do with the nut behind the wheel! The Ultima is far more visceral, where you get a 'push' in the back with the Evo, the Ultima throws you down the stairs and then kicks your head in for a laugh Mine pumps out about twice what your Evo produces.
3. I intend to ring Ted this week and check the factory out. I also fancy putting the idea forward for creating a full 3d photographic model/animation of the car (I'm a 3D artist) like the Tuscan on Tvr's site but mine will be much better :-) with all engine and interior details. I think this would be an interesting project and owners/prospect buyers would find it very interesting, any thoughts?
Well, as one 3D designer (amongst other things) to another, the first difficulty will be getting the dimensions of the chassis as Ted won't be keen to hand them over (would you?). If you're going to build one, you certainly won't have the time to model it in 3D too!!
Oh, it's not symmetrical either
4. Is the engine/gearbox build very hard? fitting clutch etc...looks complex.
Depends if you build your own engine or buy a turnkey unit. But even then, the Chevy is a fairly simple beast. Fitting them to the car is one of the more straightforward parts of the build - that is, unless you have a bloody great supercharger, then nothing is straightforward!!!
5. I'm thinking of spending around £40,000 will this be enuff for a good spec 500hp car?
That's about the right starting point - but Ultimas are like Pringles in this respect.
6. Have many of you gone for a Stack dash? and if so had many problems with installation?
I have. It's pretty straightforward but you need a good sense of logic and some knowledge of car electrical systems. It's a lot simpler than the million and one control systems on the Evo that's for sure!
That's all for now, many thanks for your help.
No probs.
1. How well will a 500hp engine last compared to say TVR speed six!!! or 355? (great car's but....)
Well enough. From experience I'd say that the Chevy was probably a bit more durable. I'd say a better comparison would be with the Chevy and the Rover V8 and having had several of those, they're pretty good too. The main thing is that they're relatively cheap to maintain and repair which certainly isn't the case with a Speed Six or a Ferrari lump!!
2. Are there any chaps on here running a 500hp engine that would be willing to take me out?? (I live in Solihull) I would be very grateful (I own a Lancer Evo5 around 320 hp and that is very very fast and really can't believe that a 500hp Ultima would be much quicker) I need to be shown.
lol! You can't believe that the Ultima is faster than a Lancer
In the wet you may be right, but even then, it's more to do with the nut behind the wheel! The Ultima is far more visceral, where you get a 'push' in the back with the Evo, the Ultima throws you down the stairs and then kicks your head in for a laugh Mine pumps out about twice what your Evo produces. 3. I intend to ring Ted this week and check the factory out. I also fancy putting the idea forward for creating a full 3d photographic model/animation of the car (I'm a 3D artist) like the Tuscan on Tvr's site but mine will be much better :-) with all engine and interior details. I think this would be an interesting project and owners/prospect buyers would find it very interesting, any thoughts?
Well, as one 3D designer (amongst other things) to another, the first difficulty will be getting the dimensions of the chassis as Ted won't be keen to hand them over (would you?). If you're going to build one, you certainly won't have the time to model it in 3D too!!
Oh, it's not symmetrical either 4. Is the engine/gearbox build very hard? fitting clutch etc...looks complex.
Depends if you build your own engine or buy a turnkey unit. But even then, the Chevy is a fairly simple beast. Fitting them to the car is one of the more straightforward parts of the build - that is, unless you have a bloody great supercharger, then nothing is straightforward!!!
5. I'm thinking of spending around £40,000 will this be enuff for a good spec 500hp car?
That's about the right starting point - but Ultimas are like Pringles in this respect.
6. Have many of you gone for a Stack dash? and if so had many problems with installation?
I have. It's pretty straightforward but you need a good sense of logic and some knowledge of car electrical systems. It's a lot simpler than the million and one control systems on the Evo that's for sure!
That's all for now, many thanks for your help.
No probs.
I have a 500+bhp Ultima, however I also own a 360bhp cossie and also used to think like you...how can anything be much quicker.
Well a ride in an Ultima will soon cure this, my Can-am is massivelly faster than the cossie, and the reason is that it has nearly 300bhp per ton more than the cossie.
How many other cars do you know that can do 0-100mph in seven seconds?
I live in the country and commute (30miles) in either the cossie, my Ultima or a Boxter S, the Boxter is best in the wet but the Ultima is much faster when the roads are dry. The cossie can't outperform the Ultima in any conditions.
Worth noting though that I did make a few choice mods to make the Ultima better suited to B roads, thats the major advantage of a car like this, you can tailor it to your own individual needs.
These cars are quite easy to build if you are used to playing with cars.
The engines are highly tuned to get over 500bhp but mines done 2500miles in 6 months and is still going strong.
Fitting the Stack dash is really easy, it comes with its own loom and all the bits (except mounting pod) to fit. Looks good too!
>> Edited by ultimaandy on Thursday 27th February 09:05
Well a ride in an Ultima will soon cure this, my Can-am is massivelly faster than the cossie, and the reason is that it has nearly 300bhp per ton more than the cossie.
How many other cars do you know that can do 0-100mph in seven seconds?
I live in the country and commute (30miles) in either the cossie, my Ultima or a Boxter S, the Boxter is best in the wet but the Ultima is much faster when the roads are dry. The cossie can't outperform the Ultima in any conditions.
Worth noting though that I did make a few choice mods to make the Ultima better suited to B roads, thats the major advantage of a car like this, you can tailor it to your own individual needs.
These cars are quite easy to build if you are used to playing with cars.
The engines are highly tuned to get over 500bhp but mines done 2500miles in 6 months and is still going strong.
Fitting the Stack dash is really easy, it comes with its own loom and all the bits (except mounting pod) to fit. Looks good too!
>> Edited by ultimaandy on Thursday 27th February 09:05
I had an STI type RA before the Ultima. The ultima is definately harder to drive fast and much, much quicker in a straight line and on an A road. However IMHO i feel an evo or sti is quicker on a b road. Mainly because they inspire so much confidence.
As far as engine reliability is concerned i'm told a chevy gives low stresed easy power......but we have had lots of problems with our 535 bhp v8 (think rebuilds). Infact Dr. J broke down in spain today with a coil failure...never had that problem with the sti. In my opinion any tuned engine is going to be highly stressed like a speed six.
The GTR was based in Kingswinford for the last 12 months and I would give you a ride but it is now in sunny spain.
As far as engine reliability is concerned i'm told a chevy gives low stresed easy power......but we have had lots of problems with our 535 bhp v8 (think rebuilds). Infact Dr. J broke down in spain today with a coil failure...never had that problem with the sti. In my opinion any tuned engine is going to be highly stressed like a speed six.
The GTR was based in Kingswinford for the last 12 months and I would give you a ride but it is now in sunny spain.
Sieze said: I had an STI type RA before the Ultima. The ultima is definately harder to drive fast and much, much quicker in a straight line and on an A road. However IMHO i feel an evo or sti is quicker on a b road. Mainly because they inspire so much confidence.
As far as engine reliability is concerned i'm told a chevy gives low stresed easy power......but we have had lots of problems with our 535 bhp v8 (think rebuilds). Infact Dr. J broke down in spain today with a coil failure...never had that problem with the sti. In my opinion any tuned engine is going to be highly stressed like a speed six.
The GTR was based in Kingswinford for the last 12 months and I would give you a ride but it is now in sunny spain.
Coil failure can hardly be attributed to the engine tune can it? I wonder where he's got it mounted? If it's at the back of the engine I guess the most likely cause would probably be heat soak from the exhaust headers.
TVRs suffer from this too and more so from starter motor failure as it's positioned quite near to the exhausts.
Face it all these high power engines are going to break at some point in their lives.
None of us built an Ultima for everyday transport.
Re-build seems a little unlucky but things like coil failures, fuelling, melted ignition leads etc... are just part of the learning experience of our cars.
The more info we share on these things, the more likely we are to iron out these things.
Incidentally I notice the Factory put their ignition coils on the back of the engine - perhaps not the best place.
Also I took some guy from work out in my Ultima who drives an EVO 6 day to day and he could not believe the acceleration and braking forces it can generate or the speeds one can reach on relatively short pieces of road. The Ultima makes the EVO seem slow
None of us built an Ultima for everyday transport.
Re-build seems a little unlucky but things like coil failures, fuelling, melted ignition leads etc... are just part of the learning experience of our cars.
The more info we share on these things, the more likely we are to iron out these things.
Incidentally I notice the Factory put their ignition coils on the back of the engine - perhaps not the best place.
Also I took some guy from work out in my Ultima who drives an EVO 6 day to day and he could not believe the acceleration and braking forces it can generate or the speeds one can reach on relatively short pieces of road. The Ultima makes the EVO seem slow
Interesting comments, cheers. One thing that made me worry was the wet weather issue, so I'm looking at using some sort of traction control system, anyone using this?. I'll ring Ted this wk and visit the factory next sunday, hopefully I'll get a test drive. So far everything has come in at 46k.........thats using 8k for a good engine!!! 500bhp I hope... with steel rods/crank etc and all the trick parts. Reel steel engines look good BUT!! the USA recomended engine looks a far better and cheaper deal, can anyone advise me on this?. One more ? do any of you guys live around the midlands? cheers again.
Andy.
Andy.
The only traction control you need is a bit of control over your right foot.
I looked at the Racelogic traction control system a few years ago, and was mighty unimpressed. I know that it's a generic system, so it needs to be easy to fit to anything, but the idea of just cutting the spark when it wants to reduce power goes against the grain for me. I'd prefer something more elegant. Listening to a car pulling away with this method of traction control is horrible. It just sounds like you've got a bad misfire (which is what you do in fact have).
If I was going to fit traction control, I'd rig up a fly by wire throttle, and rig up wheel spin sensors to reduce the throttle, rather than just make the engine run rough. I started to design a system for Stig a while back, when he was talking about traction control, but he came to his senses in the end, and decided to learn to drive instead
James
I looked at the Racelogic traction control system a few years ago, and was mighty unimpressed. I know that it's a generic system, so it needs to be easy to fit to anything, but the idea of just cutting the spark when it wants to reduce power goes against the grain for me. I'd prefer something more elegant. Listening to a car pulling away with this method of traction control is horrible. It just sounds like you've got a bad misfire (which is what you do in fact have).
If I was going to fit traction control, I'd rig up a fly by wire throttle, and rig up wheel spin sensors to reduce the throttle, rather than just make the engine run rough. I started to design a system for Stig a while back, when he was talking about traction control, but he came to his senses in the end, and decided to learn to drive instead
James
DABOSS said: Interesting comments, cheers. One thing that made me worry was the wet weather issue, so I'm looking at using some sort of traction control system, anyone using this?. I'll ring Ted this wk and visit the factory next sunday, hopefully I'll get a test drive. So far everything has come in at 46k.........thats using 8k for a good engine!!! 500bhp I hope... with steel rods/crank etc and all the trick parts. Reel steel engines look good BUT!! the USA recomended engine looks a far better and cheaper deal, can anyone advise me on this?. One more ? do any of you guys live around the midlands? cheers again.
Andy.
Have to say that we calculated about 45000 to start with, but spend about 52k in the end.
I would go for good suspension/tyres/wheels/steering wheel/seats etc.
We looked at saving money on seats, but for a little extra you have the perfect seats from ultima. The same for the wheels, if you like the ultima ones don't look any further, for the same size wheels you will be hard pushed to find anything cooler.
Save money buy looking for cheap tire suppliers, this can save you 1k.
Once you start spending you just keep going believe me.
As for the engine, we run 535bhp V8, which is very quick, however we run a carb version, I'm not sure, but maybe a injection version will give less problems like stalling under braking etc. A slightly detuned version might be less hastle to keep running as well. However, saying that after our test drive we said, we want exactly the same engine!
Have fun.
Sorry, I think I must have calculated my maths wrong. £45k for what? The whole car or just a part. If you are budgeting for this amount (and if your budget is tight) then you need to be careful that the costs don't run away. I have not found the GTR a cheap car - an extreme car and cheaper pound for pound V's performance - but not cheap. That is an interesting figure. Are you thinking £45k plus VAT as that's probably a good starting point.
>> Edited by Doz on Friday 28th February 14:13
>> Edited by Doz on Friday 28th February 14:13
stig said: Hoho. I'm sure Racelogic with years of experience would produce a vastly inferior system to your setup James.
I bet they're kicking themselves now that they hadn't thought of it themselves
Don't be a tit Stig. As I explained. They're producing a system that can be retro fitted to any car. In that case, you have to create something that can easily be fitted. However, if you're starting from a blank sheet of paper, it's a different matter. Look at any production car which was originally designed with TC. They don't cut the spark. They just override the throttle.
If you're building the car yourself from scratch, and you want a simple traction control system, the best way to do it is to electronically control the throttle (easily done with a stepper motor), and feed wheel spin info into the control unit. When the back wheel speed exceeds the front wheel speed by your chosen amount, the throttle is backed off at the rate selected, until the wheelspin comes back under control.
It isn't rocket science, but I can't see many people wanting to completely re-design the footwell of their car for a retro fit, like Racelogic do.
On a different track, to get TC I would use the Engine Management system
Motec
DTA
www.omextechnology.co.uk/page3.html do a very good one
Built into the EMS has to be the way to go
G Man
Motec
DTA
www.omextechnology.co.uk/page3.html do a very good one
Built into the EMS has to be the way to go
G Man
Omex does not run with MSD if anybody is thinking of this. James Racelogic have moved on a bit since you last visted them. If you have fuel injection the pulse is cut. On ignition with the reaction time required i would very much doubt tc would work by reducing throtle on a carbed car.
Quite a lot about this on the Racelogic web site (may well lead to a desired conclusion though James
bluesatin said: Omex does not run with MSD if anybody is thinking of this. James Racelogic have moved on a bit since you last visted them. If you have fuel injection the pulse is cut. On ignition with the reaction time required i would very much doubt tc would work by reducing throtle on a carbed car.
). F1 cars use the spark as it is quicker. There is a big delay between moving the throttle and engine response. Cutting the spark is instant, so give better control.DABOSS
Don't confuse our 'quicker in the dry maybe not in the wet' comments as meaning an Ultima is overly dangerous in the wet, because they arn't.
I'm no race driver but have done a lot of miles in the wet in my ultima, all I did (after putting the roof up) was drive with more care. As I would do in any other car!
Don't confuse our 'quicker in the dry maybe not in the wet' comments as meaning an Ultima is overly dangerous in the wet, because they arn't.
I'm no race driver but have done a lot of miles in the wet in my ultima, all I did (after putting the roof up) was drive with more care. As I would do in any other car!
james said:
stig said: Hoho. I'm sure Racelogic with years of experience would produce a vastly inferior system to your setup James.
I bet they're kicking themselves now that they hadn't thought of it themselves
Don't be a tit Stig. As I explained. They're producing a system that can be retro fitted to any car. In that case, you have to create something that can easily be fitted. However, if you're starting from a blank sheet of paper, it's a different matter. Look at any production car which was originally designed with TC. They don't cut the spark. They just override the throttle.
If you're building the car yourself from scratch, and you want a simple traction control system, the best way to do it is to electronically control the throttle (easily done with a stepper motor), and feed wheel spin info into the control unit. When the back wheel speed exceeds the front wheel speed by your chosen amount, the throttle is backed off at the rate selected, until the wheelspin comes back under control.
It isn't rocket science, but I can't see many people wanting to completely re-design the footwell of their car for a retro fit, like Racelogic do.
Sorry, but you have your facts about Racelogic and traction control in general completely wrong. The MkIV supra guys use it a lot due to the bizzarre way that the twin turbos deliver their power (can't stand it myself, strictly a big single turbo man).
It doesn't cut the spark, it cuts the fuel injection pulses to individual cylinders. A fully adjustable system, once it detects that you have exceeded your selected amount of wheelslip, it starts by cutting fuel to one cylinder, then if slip keeps increasing, progressively to more and more cyclinders. This results in a very smooth action which is almost undetectable unless you insist on using full throttle in low gear in the pouring rain or something
The reason it's fitted to the Supras a lot is because the Toyota system works by modulating the throttle butterfly as you describe, and it's abysmally slow to react. No matter how sophisticated the ECU, there will always be latency in this kind of mechanical system. I was passenger in a car that was written off coming out of a second gear roundabout in the rain; by the time the standard trac control had reduced power to the wheels we had already bounced off the armco and ended up in the central reservation. I have driven an identical Racelogic equipped car in identical conditions, and the result is a tiny wiggle no matter how brutal you are with the loud pedal. Instant response from the system before you even feel the rear break traction.
If this all sounds a bit boring, remember that you can adjust the amount of slip (so you can drift round everywhere at 20 degrees to parallel, confident that the system won't let you tip over into a spin), and also comes with an off button
I don't work for Racelogic, no vested interest at all in the product; I just wanted to step in before someone discarded a supremely cool bit of kit because they had been given incorrect info.
>> Edited by aww999 on Wednesday 5th March 09:39
>> Edited by aww999 on Wednesday 5th March 11:01
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