What changes would you make given a clean sheet of paper?

[GTWayne]

As some of you may know, my favourite word is 'MODIFY' when talking about Ultimas in particular and I was wondering, if you guys that have owned and used your cars for a while now have found anything that you wished had been designed differently or maybe omitted altogether? Also, are there any changes you would like to make but find it to awkward at this late stage of the game?

[stig]

The only things I thought were worthy of improving were addressed in the Can-Am. Which was basically to make it more user friendly and drivable on a day-to-day basis, with the sort of creature comforts we take for granted in 'normal' cars. Still, until the roof goes on there's not a lot of day-to-day use at the mo!

Bl00dy weather!

[steve_d]

I would pipe aircon round the back of the seats.
At present I get nice and cool on the front but my back roasts despite having loads of insulation in the bulkhead.

Steve

[ditto]

I think the doors or something to catch the water when it’s raining, it gets a bit embarrassing when you open the door and get a lap full of water

[GTRene]

>maybe change the front a bit(design), also that way that the headlights can't ever touch the tires again(accept ofcorse when a accident happens)

>make it useble for the LS7 (sounds like heaven)

>make a alu chassis? I don't like the idea to make hunderds? of little holes in the iron tube! to fix the alu cheets? when water finds it way to the unprotected holes and little iron pieces that fell in the iron tube what about the rust?? scares me...and can make the tube less strong?

>what about that rearclam that opens backwards! would not like to see it open under high speeds?? better make that like the K'egg for example?


or the Gumpert Apollo;


it even has some lugage space

If you like to see more of that car look under this

www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/vehicles/road/cars/gumpert_apollo.html


http://images.google.nl/images?q=gump

>also their was a thread around tires scraping the inside? make that better?!

>design a cat exhaust for LS engines that way that you only need 2 cats(the cats also work as sound dettening/muffler) and not the mufflers anymore, that save's weight! and I know its possible because they tried it on some fast cars and the sound was not that loud and saved a lot of weight and room!

>make a lightweight bulkhead? that way that the heat from teh engine does not reach you and also make the cool flow better under the bonnet?

Then the final point make it payeble for me
GTRene

Edited by GTRene on Saturday 2nd September 16:03

[davefiddes]

Given a truely clean sheet of paper I'd love to see the middle of the car given a bit of a work over. A proper bulkhead that would truely insulate the cockpit from the engine bay would be nice from a comfort standpoint and essential from a safety one. At the same time I'd get rid of the annoying and potentially dangerous twin fuel tanks and just have a single removable tank (with a proper race bag tank option). This would need the wheelbase extended but moving the fuel inboard might go someway to compensate for the handling changes this would entail.

Also, given infinite resources, I'd love to see the front end given long arm wishbones and inboard suspension. Some of that camber control suspension as pushed by DAX/Radical would also be cool.

Tidying the front bodywork so as to remove the whole headlight/wheel rubbing issue would be good. Finding a way of fitting a splitter and still being able to get into the front of the car outside of a 100% level garage floor would be nice.

Fixing the rear chassis so that not quite so many tubes bash into the gearbox when trying to fit it. It was probably a great fit with the Renault UN1 box but it's not exactly brilliant with the G50.

Doubt that any of it will ever come to pass anytime soon. Which is probably a good thing as I can't see myself ever being able to justify building another Ultima...until I've worn my current one out at the very least.

[Scuffers]

davefiddes said:

Given a truely clean sheet of paper I'd love to see the middle of the car given a bit of a work over. A proper bulkhead that would truely insulate the cockpit from the engine bay would be nice from a comfort standpoint and essential from a safety one. At the same time I'd get rid of the annoying and potentially dangerous twin fuel tanks and just have a single removable tank (with a proper race bag tank option). This would need the wheelbase extended but moving the fuel inboard might go someway to compensate for the handling changes this would entail.

Also, given infinite resources, I'd love to see the front end given long arm wishbones and inboard suspension. Some of that camber control suspension as pushed by DAX/Radical would also be cool.

Tidying the front bodywork so as to remove the whole headlight/wheel rubbing issue would be good. Finding a way of fitting a splitter and still being able to get into the front of the car outside of a 100% level garage floor would be nice.

Fixing the rear chassis so that not quite so many tubes bash into the gearbox when trying to fit it. It was probably a great fit with the Renault UN1 box but it's not exactly brilliant with the G50.

Doubt that any of it will ever come to pass anytime soon. Which is probably a good thing as I can't see myself ever being able to justify building another Ultima...until I've worn my current one out at the very least.

you realise you have just about described a ProSport don't you?

1) Bulkhead - it's got the fuel tank in-between you and the engine.
2) Headlights don't get rubbed by the wheels
3) it's got rocker suspension (that works!)
4) no tubes round the rear of the gearbox
5) fuel tank in the centre - 100L proper bag tank and all.

[GTWayne]

Good point but are they SVA compliant?, I have never seen one on the road.

[davefiddes]

Scuffers said:

You realise you have just about described a ProSport don't you?

Forgotten that they had rocker suspension...but yeah, don't rub it in. I was hell bent on having something with a horking great big V8. Sigh. The folly of youth. However repenting at leisure isn't so bad...

There was a road legal one for sale one PH at one point. Couldn't see the point. Ruined a perfectly capable race car.

Anyone fitted a V8 in place of the Ford V6?

[GTWayne]

I was under the impression that rocker arm (by this I assume that you mean inboard shocks) was an alternative to inverted shocks as Mcpherson strut/wishbones are and by virtue alone does not necessarily make either one better than the other?

[andygtt]

given a clean sheet I would build my GTT lol.

But if I was to build another Ultima I would fit a FI engine, this would have been the biggest improvement over a std package IMO.
I'd also lengthen the front wishbones so that more travel is possible and build in a large rear diffuser (with chassis mods to allow it possible)... However I think these would be tweeks compared to the FI engine.

[davefiddes]

GTWayne said:

I was under the impression that rocker arm (by this I assume that you mean inboard shocks) was an alternative to inverted shocks as Mcpherson strut/wishbones are and by virtue alone does not necessarily make either one better than the other?

Inherently inboard suspension has much lower unsprung weight and lower polar moment of inertia due to the heavy bits being inboard. Depending on how you do it you can design in rising rate rather than putting up with inherently falling rate springs. It also opens up the possibility of doing other clever things like camber control suspension that I mentioned. Even with inverted shocks there is a goodly dolop of mass from the shock and spring attributable to the unsprung weight.

On the downside it is more complex which is never a good thing. It also makes it harder to cool the dampers but then that's often an issue on closed GT cars anyway. It's not the totally done deal it was on single seater cars where getting the dampers out the airflow was a HUGE win by itself.

Don't recall too many competitive GT cars in the last 15 years that didn't have inboard suspension at one or both ends.

[Scuffers]

davefiddes said:

Scuffers said:

You realise you have just about described a ProSport don't you?

Forgotten that they had rocker suspension...but yeah, don't rub it in. I was hell bent on having something with a horking great big V8. Sigh. The folly of youth. However repenting at leisure isn't so bad...

There was a road legal one for sale one PH at one point. Couldn't see the point. Ruined a perfectly capable race car.

Anyone fitted a V8 in place of the Ford V6?

There are two ProSports that got SVA'ed as far as I know, Ian Stinton has one of them (and it;s for sale).

it's still very much a ProSport, fast enough for us both to get banned from Brit GT!

engine wise, yes, the old Grandad engine is far from great, people have fitted all sorts of engines, from Fezza V8's to one with a BMW V12. Bob Light created the stealth from a ProSport...(with an LS2 engine I belive)

[davefiddes]

Scuffers said:

it's still very much a ProSport, fast enough for us both to get banned from Brit GT!

Aye. Saw that. Hard to believe that the same thing would have happened if there was a prancing horse (or bull) on the front... It's all about marketing opportunities old boy.