westfield XTR 2 Turbo
Discussion
Hello Vincent
I work for holeshot racing. we can supply you a turbo kit for your busa car. from 300hp @ the wheels upwards. kits start at £3400 + vat and include everything required. we can fit the kit for you or you can fit the kit yourself. other than that we need to reduce the compression of your engine and change the cam timing to suit turbocharging, for this we charge £600 + vat.
I work for holeshot racing. we can supply you a turbo kit for your busa car. from 300hp @ the wheels upwards. kits start at £3400 + vat and include everything required. we can fit the kit for you or you can fit the kit yourself. other than that we need to reduce the compression of your engine and change the cam timing to suit turbocharging, for this we charge £600 + vat.
Vincent,
I know a bloke here in The Netherlands who has a XTR2 Turbo on the road (and track abviously). His car was turbo charged by HoleShot. Very nice install, very professional. I would not look any further, the holeshot guys seem to know what they are doing.
BTW, XTR2 + Turbo = very quick car !!
Bye,
Bertram
www.gtmlibra.nl (with turbo!)
I know a bloke here in The Netherlands who has a XTR2 Turbo on the road (and track abviously). His car was turbo charged by HoleShot. Very nice install, very professional. I would not look any further, the holeshot guys seem to know what they are doing.
BTW, XTR2 + Turbo = very quick car !!
Bye,
Bertram
www.gtmlibra.nl (with turbo!)
wait a minute
300 bhp from an engine designed to push a bike around at 200 mph
with a bikes wind resistance
and is now pushing a car with added wait and resistance
what do you do to the internals to stop it killing itsself
do you reduce top rpm to increase life expectancy????
stronger rod and crank???
or just the power of prayer
300 bhp from an engine designed to push a bike around at 200 mph
with a bikes wind resistance
and is now pushing a car with added wait and resistance
what do you do to the internals to stop it killing itsself
do you reduce top rpm to increase life expectancy????
stronger rod and crank???
or just the power of prayer
BOFFIN said:
Hello Vincent
I work for holeshot racing. we can supply you a turbo kit for your busa car. from 300hp @ the wheels upwards. kits start at £3400 + vat and include everything required. we can fit the kit for you or you can fit the kit yourself. other than that we need to reduce the compression of your engine and change the cam timing to suit turbocharging, for this we charge £600 + vat.
I work for holeshot racing. we can supply you a turbo kit for your busa car. from 300hp @ the wheels upwards. kits start at £3400 + vat and include everything required. we can fit the kit for you or you can fit the kit yourself. other than that we need to reduce the compression of your engine and change the cam timing to suit turbocharging, for this we charge £600 + vat.
Jack keeps doing this, quotes low prices then you find out later you need another load of kit . . . that price doesn't include conrods, pistons or intercooler which you will will need in a track car. A bike can't usually stay on boost for long enough for the lack of intercooler to be a real problem but in a car you'll vey quickly cook it without one.
The XTR2 will probably also need a new output shaft. (I think it's chain driven yes ?)
Kiwi XTR2 said:
busa_rush said:
The XTR2 will probably also need a new output shaft. (I think it's chain driven yes ?)
You can keep them chain driven with the hair-dryer attached
Sorry, didn't mean prop shaft, there is a heavy duty gearbox output shaft for the busa which uses a Honda spline and is much stronger.
www.hayabusazone.com/transmissions.html
Edited by busa_rush on Saturday 9th September 17:52
Jack keeps doing this, quotes low prices then you find out later you need another load of kit . . . that price doesn't include conrods, pistons or intercooler which you will will need in a track car. A bike can't usually stay on boost for long enough for the lack of intercooler to be a real problem but in a car you'll vey quickly cook it without one.
The XTR2 will probably also need a new output shaft. (I think it's chain driven yes ?)
[/quote]
Once again this misunderstanding rears its head.
Firstly the kit does include an intercooler! But it is to suit the bike so the price of this part can be deducted from the price of the kit, then replaced with the price for an intercooler which will suit the application the kit is for, in this case the xtr2, that done the kit costs around the same.
Correct as you are in that the kits do not include uprated conrods, most applications do not require them, ie low boost applications (around 0.5 bar which makes 300hp on the small kits). Uprated conrods would be a recommendation if more power ie more boost is required.
The same is true for the pistons.
You only have to look at Duncan Cowper's Dax Rush Busa Turbo to see this. He had standard pistons and rods, but an intercooler to suit his car. His car ran at 300hp for 4 years doing nothing other track use and speed events and he had no problems.
Matter settled!
The XTR2 will probably also need a new output shaft. (I think it's chain driven yes ?)
[/quote]
Once again this misunderstanding rears its head.
Firstly the kit does include an intercooler! But it is to suit the bike so the price of this part can be deducted from the price of the kit, then replaced with the price for an intercooler which will suit the application the kit is for, in this case the xtr2, that done the kit costs around the same.
Correct as you are in that the kits do not include uprated conrods, most applications do not require them, ie low boost applications (around 0.5 bar which makes 300hp on the small kits). Uprated conrods would be a recommendation if more power ie more boost is required.
The same is true for the pistons.
You only have to look at Duncan Cowper's Dax Rush Busa Turbo to see this. He had standard pistons and rods, but an intercooler to suit his car. His car ran at 300hp for 4 years doing nothing other track use and speed events and he had no problems.
Matter settled!
BOFFIN said:
Matter settled!
Not been around long have you !
How much will Jack deduct from the £3400+vat for the interooler ? Can we assume that *all* the pipework required for the intercooler is still included then ? The website still says that the price doesn't include an intercooler or air pipes at all . . .
www.holeshotracing.co.uk/tuning/turbo_car_hayabusa.asp
These items are required but not included: (according to his web site)
* Air Filter
* Intercooler
* Air Hoses
* Oil Cooler Hoses
In a car it will need pistons at 300bhp. Although Duncan didn't have rods he was also only running at 0.9 bar with 280bhp and he has a lot of mechanical sympathy, knows how to make an engine last and hardly ever drove on the road, he raced sprints which means nothing longer than a few minutes at a time so heat build up isn't such an issue. You'd be mad to build a turbo busa now without new con rods, just too dangerous.
If you take the time to do the sums you'll find that a turbo conversion will cost £6k minimum, unless you can buy a lot of the parts second hand.
If you only run 0.5 bar you'll only get in the region of 220-230 bhp, no where near 300.
I doubt people mind you posting adverts for Jack but don't give the wrong information, especially about the price and what's required to make an engine live, it's not fair and in this forum a lot of people will see through it anyway.
BOFFIN said:
Not been around long have you !
A Year and a half.
(dont know how to do that white quote thing)
A Year and a half.
(dont know how to do that white quote thing)
Just hit the QUOTE button, it will do it for you.
I believe the point that Busa Rush was making is, regardless of how long you've been at Holeshot, you haven't been around Pistonheads very long (one month unless you've been lurking).
The very idea that a single post (from a newbie) on a reasonably contentious issue can be "Matter settled!" shows a high degree of either optimism or naiveté.
All good
just expect a bit more discussion from the PH massive.As Kiwi says I have turbo charged my XTR2
As with most of these types of conversions you do come across lots of issues that generally means the job costs more and takes longer than you expect. I can explain what I have done but as the car has only been mapped and not yet driven on the road I cannot yet comment on all issues.
I had my base engine conversion carried out by Jack at Holeshot. I did go for upgraded pistons and enlarged head bolts. I also had the clutch modified. There seem to be a number of companies now doing this so I guess the advice is to talk to them all and make your decision. You can even buy the engine and do it yourself. This is what I am now doing on another higher spec engine.
I think conrods are known to be more of an issue at very high revs so I have not changed mine.
I decided for a number of reasons to go with a full mappable ECU. (I have heard mixed stories about the piggy back ECU's that just fire at a certain pressure and I also wanted to have the option of traction control etc) This adds about £1.6 k by the time you have bought everything and had it mapped. Oh and took me atleast 50hours of wiring. You also need to remove and machine the crank wheel to get a suitable trigger.
I had a custom intercooler made that fits perfectly in the drivers side pod. A different oil cooler fits behind this. Everything is very very tight. I did mine as a fresh build but on a factory car you may need to relocate the dry sump tank and oil catch tank that sit here.
I also have water injection just incase !!
You need to get cooling water and oil to the turbo. I fiited a TTS mechanical dry sump tank and electric water pump.
There is ton's of custom plumbing that you need to connect all of this together. I was on familiar terms with highbury hose and Think automotive !!
You also will need to modify the exhaust manifold that Jack supplies and mout the turbo facing upwards to clear the fuel tank and chassis. Even in this configuration it clears the bulkhead by about 5mm. You will also need to make a turbo support bracket.
Cooling needs to be addressed. I have ducts more air, fitted an extra fan to direct air to the inlet and added lots of insulating material. I have also covered the turbo and immediate exhaust area with an aircraft grade material with a 400'c temperature gradient (cost £150 / per foot !) Oh and did I mention that you will ned a new exhaust and as the Westfield supplied one is a bit restrictive I have gone for 3" all the way and it exits in the middle of the car. This was made by Simpsons (thanks Jack for supplying a new weld flange next day) cost £750)
The inlet housing will not fit under the rear engine cover without a small amount of modification.
The standard Westfield engine cradle only uses 2 of the top engine mounts for some reason. I modified and strengthened the cradle to use all four.
I have also changed the chain and sprockets for stronger items supplied by Chris at Z cars.
I have also had stronger diff carriers and chain tensioners made. The drive train is my main concern. I will see how it holds up but I think could be better designed. I knowe of another builder who it fitting a proper transfer box as used in the radical.
There are probably a few other things I've forgotten !!!
Hopefully it will all be worth it but I question that you could do it all for £3.5k I have probably spent about £9-10k
David
As with most of these types of conversions you do come across lots of issues that generally means the job costs more and takes longer than you expect. I can explain what I have done but as the car has only been mapped and not yet driven on the road I cannot yet comment on all issues.
I had my base engine conversion carried out by Jack at Holeshot. I did go for upgraded pistons and enlarged head bolts. I also had the clutch modified. There seem to be a number of companies now doing this so I guess the advice is to talk to them all and make your decision. You can even buy the engine and do it yourself. This is what I am now doing on another higher spec engine.
I think conrods are known to be more of an issue at very high revs so I have not changed mine.
I decided for a number of reasons to go with a full mappable ECU. (I have heard mixed stories about the piggy back ECU's that just fire at a certain pressure and I also wanted to have the option of traction control etc) This adds about £1.6 k by the time you have bought everything and had it mapped. Oh and took me atleast 50hours of wiring. You also need to remove and machine the crank wheel to get a suitable trigger.
I had a custom intercooler made that fits perfectly in the drivers side pod. A different oil cooler fits behind this. Everything is very very tight. I did mine as a fresh build but on a factory car you may need to relocate the dry sump tank and oil catch tank that sit here.
I also have water injection just incase !!
You need to get cooling water and oil to the turbo. I fiited a TTS mechanical dry sump tank and electric water pump.
There is ton's of custom plumbing that you need to connect all of this together. I was on familiar terms with highbury hose and Think automotive !!
You also will need to modify the exhaust manifold that Jack supplies and mout the turbo facing upwards to clear the fuel tank and chassis. Even in this configuration it clears the bulkhead by about 5mm. You will also need to make a turbo support bracket.
Cooling needs to be addressed. I have ducts more air, fitted an extra fan to direct air to the inlet and added lots of insulating material. I have also covered the turbo and immediate exhaust area with an aircraft grade material with a 400'c temperature gradient (cost £150 / per foot !) Oh and did I mention that you will ned a new exhaust and as the Westfield supplied one is a bit restrictive I have gone for 3" all the way and it exits in the middle of the car. This was made by Simpsons (thanks Jack for supplying a new weld flange next day) cost £750)
The inlet housing will not fit under the rear engine cover without a small amount of modification.
The standard Westfield engine cradle only uses 2 of the top engine mounts for some reason. I modified and strengthened the cradle to use all four.
I have also changed the chain and sprockets for stronger items supplied by Chris at Z cars.
I have also had stronger diff carriers and chain tensioners made. The drive train is my main concern. I will see how it holds up but I think could be better designed. I knowe of another builder who it fitting a proper transfer box as used in the radical.
There are probably a few other things I've forgotten !!!
Hopefully it will all be worth it but I question that you could do it all for £3.5k I have probably spent about £9-10k
David
Edited by XTR2Turbo on Sunday 10th September 08:36
Kiwi XTR2 said:
BOFFIN said:
Not been around long have you !
A Year and a half.
(dont know how to do that white quote thing)
A Year and a half.
(dont know how to do that white quote thing)
Just hit the QUOTE button, it will do it for you.
I believe the point that Busa Rush was making is, regardless of how long you've been at Holeshot, you haven't been around Pistonheads very long (one month unless you've been lurking).
The very idea that a single post (from a newbie) on a reasonably contentious issue can be "Matter settled!" shows a high degree of either optimism or naiveté.
All good
just expect a bit more discussion from the PH massive.Ah, I see.
The point that I was trying to contest is that you CAN turbo a busa for around £3.5k as long as it is for a low boost application. We have done a couple of sprint cars without an intercooler. And we have loads of road cars without rods at 300hp.
So I am confident that a busa can be turbo'd for around £3.5k but for most people this would be best seen as a starting point.
I hope you all dont think that im a tw*t but i was just trying to make a point.
A good friend of mine has converted a Megabusa to ~300bhp sourcing some of the kit from Jack and he's spent similar amounts to David, probably double his original estimated cost!
As mentioned, its all the extra bits you need to make it reliable particularly for extended track use that add significant chunks on top of the "all in" costs. Im sure you can technically turbo a busa kit car with a ~£4k budget but its very unlikely to be drivable on track for more than a few minutes (due to heat buildup etc), and/or it will fairly quickly lunch the engine mounts / drivetrain so its not really an "all in" cost once you consider all these other requirements.
As mentioned, its all the extra bits you need to make it reliable particularly for extended track use that add significant chunks on top of the "all in" costs. Im sure you can technically turbo a busa kit car with a ~£4k budget but its very unlikely to be drivable on track for more than a few minutes (due to heat buildup etc), and/or it will fairly quickly lunch the engine mounts / drivetrain so its not really an "all in" cost once you consider all these other requirements.
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff