Speeding abroad – hypothetical question
Discussion
Most Brits pay up any on the spot speeding fine on the continent, without question and without any evidence being presented, in order not to mess up their holiday or trip home. However I assume there is some kind of appeal process against any speeding conviction for citizens in most EU countries.
What if you were feeling a little belligerent and refused to pay up pending seeing the evidence? I assume at best your car would be impounded, your license confiscated and you would be left by the side of the road. At worst you would also be arrested. So what if you did this and at a later date after your perseverance the charge was dropped?
You could potentially incur a lot more hardship than a citizen of the country who had supposedly committed the same offence (arranging trips home for your passengers and luggage, collecting/transporting the impounded car back to the UK upon release etc). Isn’t this against some EU law or other? Isn’t their supposed to be equal treatment of citizens within the EU?
I’m sure it would only take one enterprising individual try the system and overturn a charge and it would set a precedent. I quite fancy going to France on my own in a knackered old banger one holiday and trying it myself.
What if you were feeling a little belligerent and refused to pay up pending seeing the evidence? I assume at best your car would be impounded, your license confiscated and you would be left by the side of the road. At worst you would also be arrested. So what if you did this and at a later date after your perseverance the charge was dropped?
You could potentially incur a lot more hardship than a citizen of the country who had supposedly committed the same offence (arranging trips home for your passengers and luggage, collecting/transporting the impounded car back to the UK upon release etc). Isn’t this against some EU law or other? Isn’t their supposed to be equal treatment of citizens within the EU?
I’m sure it would only take one enterprising individual try the system and overturn a charge and it would set a precedent. I quite fancy going to France on my own in a knackered old banger one holiday and trying it myself.
t1grm said:
I’m sure it would only take one enterprising individual try the system and overturn a charge and it would set a precedent. I quite fancy going to France on my own in a knackered old banger one holiday and trying it myself.
A fine theory, but I think you will find in practice
a) Foreign coppers carry guns as standard. Not worth
arguing with them, in other words.
b) Are you good enough at their language to stand up for
yourself and argue ?
c) Familiar enough with foreign law to tell a foreign copper
he's wrong ?
d) Foreign coppers tend to give most Brits abroad more leeway
than the locals, perhaps because the paperwork is worse than
merely booking a local.
e) Foreign coppers don't even start issuing tickets until
you are well past their limits.
Out on the autoroute 20-30 mph over isn't a problem.
On the autobahn, don't drop below 120 mph.
On the autostrada, the rules are ignored anyway.
Little countries like L, B, NL, DK it's not worth bothering
anyway since you will be in the next country in an hour
or two anyway.
dcb said:
t1grm said:
I’m sure it would only take one enterprising individual try the system and overturn a charge and it would set a precedent. I quite fancy going to France on my own in a knackered old banger one holiday and trying it myself.
A fine theory, but I think you will find in practice
a) Foreign coppers carry guns as standard. Not worth
arguing with them, in other words.
True, but I doubt they’d shoot you dead on the spot for refusing to pay a speeding fine!
dcb said:
b) Are you good enough at their language to stand up for
yourself and argue ?
yourself and argue ?
No, I’m anticipating the scenario would be that I refuse to pay, they would arrest me and impound the car. I then get bailed (probably with help from the British Consulate) and once back home I find a decent foreign solicitor to overturn the case and get the car back. Hence the reason for taking an old banger – so you don’t care if takes a 3-year court case to get it back.
dcb said:
c) Familiar enough with foreign law to tell a foreign copper
he's wrong ?
he's wrong ?
No but see my answer to point b.
dcb said:
d) Foreign coppers tend to give most Brits abroad more leeway
than the locals, perhaps because the paperwork is worse than
merely booking a local.
than the locals, perhaps because the paperwork is worse than
merely booking a local.
I don’t think that’s always true. Why do the French police come out in force along the route from Calais to Le Mans each June? It’s certainly not to catch the locals. Foreign drivers are easy money precisely because of the reasons you state in b and c.
dcb said:
e) Foreign coppers don't even start issuing tickets until
you are well past their limits.
you are well past their limits.
That’s getting less and less the case. French and Belgian police will often confiscate a license for more than 35kph over the limit.
dcb said:
Out on the autoroute 20-30 mph over isn't a problem.
20 mph over yes, but 30 mph is pushing it. I got pulled for doing 161 km/h in a 130 km/h in France last year.
dcb said:
On the autobahn, don't drop below 120 mph.
Many sections of Autobahn are restricted to 80 mph / 130 kph. I drove from Venlo (Dutch German border) to Basle (Swiss German border) last week and only went through one unrestricted section.
dcb said:
On the autostrada, the rules are ignored anyway.
Agreed
dcb said:
Little countries like L, B, NL, DK it's not worth bothering
anyway since you will be in the next country in an hour
or two anyway.
anyway since you will be in the next country in an hour
or two anyway.
The Dutch and Belgians are increasingly cracking down on speeders. I am living in The Netherlands at the moment
Supposedly the french police's practice of impounding vehicles until the fine is paid is illegal and they are the only country in Europe that use this technique of state blackmail. There have been complaints to the European authorities about this, but as per usual, the frogs only listen to and apply what the EU say if it suits their national interests. Hence France is the EU country with highest number of non-compliance processes against it.
French courts dealing with motoring offences are pretty harsh and a gendarme's word is always taken as the truth, even when they're telling porkies. I wish you well on your exploit, but to challenge the speeding fine you need to have some basis to show that you weren't speeding - how are you going to manage this?
French courts dealing with motoring offences are pretty harsh and a gendarme's word is always taken as the truth, even when they're telling porkies. I wish you well on your exploit, but to challenge the speeding fine you need to have some basis to show that you weren't speeding - how are you going to manage this?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff