Producing documents

[supermono]

A friend of mine had his car damaged while parked on private land and the police were involved, witness statements taken etc etc. Repairs have been carried out courtesy of the third party's insurance and everything is resolved.

However he's just had a letter from the police asking him to produce his documents at the cop shop. The letter starts off asking for his assistance but then goes on to say he's "required" to show his docs.

Is he actually obliged to show them or not. Seems a bit authoritarian since he a)wasn't even in the car at the time and b)the third party was appredended and interviewed by the police.

SM

[bga]

IIRC you have to produce your docs on request of a police officer

[eccles]

can't see what the problem is if he's all legal.
i seem to recal its standard routine to ask for docs from any parties, regardless of fault/blame.

[mg6b]

If the vehicle was on private land, there is no requiriement for the keeper or owner to produce any documentation for the vehicle.

Driving licence can only be required if the person driving is on a road. Not even public place attracts the requiriement.

Insurance needs to be produced if the vehicle is on a road or public place and stationary without a driver i.e. parked.

For MOT the vehicle has to be on a road either parked or driven.

You need to look at the defintion in law of 'road' or 'public place' to ascertain if the vehicle in question qualifies as being in a place where it needed insurance. Some private land can be a public place in law!

So your friend may have to produce a certificate of insurance if the private land comes within the scope of being a public place. Driving licence and MOT cannot be required in those circumstances.

[supermono]

mg6b said:

So your friend may have to produce a certificate of insurance if the private land comes within the scope of being a public place. Driving licence and MOT cannot be required in those circumstances.

Thanks very much. It was a multi-storey car park, so the insurance requirement needs to be fulfilled and there's no problem with that. However apparently he can't find his MOT certificate so he's getting one done anyhow since he can't remember when the last one ran out anyhow.

If he just provides the new MOT, his insurance (valid at the time of the accident) and his licence, what will they do about the failure to provide the MOT? Obviously it wasn't necessary to hold a test certificate at the time when his car was damaged, but it could be argued that he must have driven there and back...

How's the best way to proceed?

SM

[mg6b]

supermono said:

If he just provides the new MOT, his insurance (valid at the time of the accident) and his licence, what will they do about the failure to provide the MOT? Obviously it wasn't necessary to hold a test certificate at the time when his car was damaged, but it could be argued that he must have driven there and back...

How's the best way to proceed?

SM

Multi storey car parks are most definately public places but do not fall within the csope of roads.

There is no requirement for your friend to take his MOT to the police station.

If it were me, then I would take all of the documents and explain to the desk clerk that the MOT covering the date of the incident has been mislaid. This would show a degree of responsibility on your friends part by complying with the request. I would then state to the person inspecting the documents that I was aware of the law regarding production requirements and that the vehicle at the time of the request was not on a road.

Roads and Public roads are two different things relating to different legal requirements. Do not talk about public roads as this will show your friend does not really understand. Public roads are such in relation to excise offences only!

It is possible that your friend may be reported for no MOT by the desk person. Your friend has actually not committed an offence by

1. Not having the MOT to cover the date
2. Not being able to produce it at the nick

If your friend is cautioned and informed he has committed an offence, then he should reply to effect that the vehicle was not on a road at the time of the requirement to produce the specified documents.

CPS would have to find evidence that the vehicle was driven along the road before and after the incident in the car park to substantiate the allegation that an offence has been committed. They will not do this for a simple MOT offence even if there is CCTV footage of the car being driven available which I doubt.

If by some strange consequences, your friend is actually summonsed for a non existent offence, then a visit to the Mags with a not guilty plea should be the order of the day.

I suspect the production of Insurance will fulfill the needs of the process department.

MOT offences are not usually prosecuted alone unless there is other stuff to go with it. It is often standard practice to send out an official warning letter of caution (which incidently has no legal clout whatsoever and is not recorded against you as a conviction other than in the letter rack at the process unit).

The fine for no MOT is not usually much more than the cost of the MOT itself. Costs however, may be added to make it a bit more significant if the defendant is found guilty.

Edited by mg6b on Thursday 14th September 14:40

[mg6b]

bga said:

IIRC you have to produce your docs on request of a police officer

No you don't. Only if you are

1. Driving on a Road or public place depending on the documents required to be produced.

2. Keeping a vehicle on a road whcih does not include the production requirement for licence.

If you are stopped and asked for your documents and you cannot produce them, you commit the offence there and then.

The law allows a driver up to seven days to produce the required documents at apolice station of their choice without fear of penalty but the offence is committed at the time of request if not handed over and not after the seven day period has elapsed!

[Dwight VanDriver]

In this case an accident has occurred on private land which may well be a 'public place' following applies in relation to production of documents:

D.Licence -

can only be requested by Plod of driver of a motor vehicle on a road or

suspects driver of having committed an offence in relation to the use of a vehicle on a road or

believed to have been the driver of a mv at the time when an accident occurred owing to the presence of a motor vehicle ON A ROAD (public place not mentioned)

(Supervisor of L Driver ignored)

The question whether the Car Park is a road is a question of fact. High Court have decided may be, may be not.

Insurance/Test certificate:

is basically same as Driving Licence but PUBLIC PLACE is added in respect of the accident part. Production required of BOTH Insurance and Test certificate.

Bearing in mind also that an admission from the driver pre-accident that he drove the vehicle from a road onto the car park may well give full blown authority to ask for production.

I would consider complying with the request. As far as I am aware CPS do not prosecute where there is only a short time between expiry and renewal of a Test Certificate.

dvd

Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Thursday 14th September 16:20

[polus]

Shouldnt they know? Or thats what I thought given that stupid advert thats rammed down everyones throats on a regular basis with regrads to the big bad all knowing database...

[Dwight VanDriver]

G.I.G.O

Actual documents are proof indeed.

dvd

Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Thursday 14th September 20:15