90% sure I'm going to buy a Speed 6 - A few Questions tho...
Discussion
I've seen a 99 Speed 6 with an independant 28,000 miles at a price I'm happy(ish) with. Went to have a look at it yesterday (120 mile round trip) only to find that "the boss has taken it home and I can't get hold of him. It was my own fault for being overkeen to have a look at it, although I did call first but (it turns out due to another salesman being off sick) could only leave a voicemail. I'm going back today to have a look and if I buy it I'll be getting a refund on the fuel at least, so brownie points for the dealer there. There are still a couple of things holding me back though and I was hoping you might be able to help me.
I'm planning on running it as a daily driver doing 10-12,000pa but my commute is only about 15 minutes each way through town. Is this going to be long enough to use it without setting myself up for engine problems? If needs be I could 'extend' my commute and possibly find an NSL road if it helps but being a lazy bar steward I like my bed!
As above it's done 28,000 miles with FTVRSH. It hasn't had a rebuild does this mean it's likely to need one in the (near) future or does it mean it's likely to be a good 'un, as it's got this far unscathed? It's recently had a new clutch fitted but that's all mechanically. (I will be ringing the TVR dealer where it was serviced to see if I can get any history). The dealer is offering a 1 year parts and labour warranty as standard (with an option to extend!), as it's their only TVR I suspect they aren't specialists and perhaps don't know what they are letting themselves in for (Conversation had yesterday Me: "so if the engine blows and needs rebuilt you'll cover it?" Dealer "Yes"
. My gut instinct and my g/f tell me I should be biting their arm off and looking at extending it, cost dependant of course. Should I be and are they likely to try and wriggle out of paying for expensive repairs?
I realise that breakdown cover is mandatory with a Tiv. Are there any particular companies/policies out there that are TVR friendly/knowledgeable, perhaps some who give club discounts?
Sorry for the long post!
I'm planning on running it as a daily driver doing 10-12,000pa but my commute is only about 15 minutes each way through town. Is this going to be long enough to use it without setting myself up for engine problems? If needs be I could 'extend' my commute and possibly find an NSL road if it helps but being a lazy bar steward I like my bed!
As above it's done 28,000 miles with FTVRSH. It hasn't had a rebuild does this mean it's likely to need one in the (near) future or does it mean it's likely to be a good 'un, as it's got this far unscathed? It's recently had a new clutch fitted but that's all mechanically. (I will be ringing the TVR dealer where it was serviced to see if I can get any history). The dealer is offering a 1 year parts and labour warranty as standard (with an option to extend!), as it's their only TVR I suspect they aren't specialists and perhaps don't know what they are letting themselves in for (Conversation had yesterday Me: "so if the engine blows and needs rebuilt you'll cover it?" Dealer "Yes"
. My gut instinct and my g/f tell me I should be biting their arm off and looking at extending it, cost dependant of course. Should I be and are they likely to try and wriggle out of paying for expensive repairs? I realise that breakdown cover is mandatory with a Tiv. Are there any particular companies/policies out there that are TVR friendly/knowledgeable, perhaps some who give club discounts?
Sorry for the long post!
I think Cerbs are a car that when you buy one, it is very easy to let your heart rule your head.
I think most people here will recomend an AJP V8 over the S6, the V8 is definitely the more robust engine and is certainly the safer bet.
But if you love the car go for it, but buy it with your eyes wide open. The S6 engine is the current TVR engine so spares will (should) be easier to source, burt bear in mind that when you come to sell it on, it will probably be harder to sell than a V8. But who knows what the future holds, for all we know all of us V8 owners may find that in the near future spares become impossible to source, and the S6's will suddenly become the desirable Cerb to own - who knows !!
Just Make absolutely sure the warranty does cover an engine rebuild, and a 2 yeear warranty sounds a good idea if its not too expensive, that way you wont have any worries.
Good luck.
I think most people here will recomend an AJP V8 over the S6, the V8 is definitely the more robust engine and is certainly the safer bet.
But if you love the car go for it, but buy it with your eyes wide open. The S6 engine is the current TVR engine so spares will (should) be easier to source, burt bear in mind that when you come to sell it on, it will probably be harder to sell than a V8. But who knows what the future holds, for all we know all of us V8 owners may find that in the near future spares become impossible to source, and the S6's will suddenly become the desirable Cerb to own - who knows !!
Just Make absolutely sure the warranty does cover an engine rebuild, and a 2 yeear warranty sounds a good idea if its not too expensive, that way you wont have any worries.
Good luck.
Edited by jensena on Sunday 17th September 10:12
eyebeebe said:
(Conversation had yesterday Me: "so if the engine blows and needs rebuilt you'll cover it?" Dealer "Yes". My gut instinct and my g/f tell me I should be biting their arm off and looking at extending it, cost dependant of course. Should I be and are they likely to try and wriggle out of paying for expensive repairs?
. My gut instinct and my g/f tell me I should be biting their arm off and looking at extending it, cost dependant of course. Should I be and are they likely to try and wriggle out of paying for expensive repairs?Don't trust any dealer that says that, unless you have it in writing. Make sure ANY warranty you have covers any potential rebuild and that they don't wriggle out by saying "wear and tear"
good luck
Thanks guys. I will definatley get tthe warranty in writing, with details and any exclusions. At the end of the day it protects both parties if we know where we stand from the beginning.
Any ideas on the other questions? Particularly whether Im risking damaging the engine with 15 minute runs?
Another question sorry: It's not far away from it's next minor service interval. If I was buying any other car I'd be looking at getting it serviced before buying it. I assume that their mechanic isn't a TVR specialist, so am I asking for trouble by getting them to service it first. Would I be better waiting til its due (probably around xmas time) and getting an independant to do it and use this as a haggling point?
Any ideas on the other questions? Particularly whether Im risking damaging the engine with 15 minute runs?
Another question sorry: It's not far away from it's next minor service interval. If I was buying any other car I'd be looking at getting it serviced before buying it. I assume that their mechanic isn't a TVR specialist, so am I asking for trouble by getting them to service it first. Would I be better waiting til its due (probably around xmas time) and getting an independant to do it and use this as a haggling point?
Edited by eyebeebe on Sunday 17th September 10:02
A 'service' is really just changing oil, checking brake pads etc, and anyone can do that and say 'Just been serviced Sir'. If was you I'd insist on a service at a TVR specialist as part of the deal before you buy it, because they will know what to look for, and advise you accordingly.
I would say that even if you get the warranty engine build in writing that is still no proof that they will pay out. I found that with a proper TVR warranty. Ended up paying for the engine rebuild myself.
I would say that a S6 with 28k miles is overdue a rebuild.
The worts place to buy a TVR is from a non TVR garage (ie specialist TVR garage, Dealer and private and probaby ebay (!) are better).
I would also be sure that you are paying the right money - S6 cerbs are at an all time low price. A 99 S6 could easily be as low as 12K.
I would say that a S6 with 28k miles is overdue a rebuild.
The worts place to buy a TVR is from a non TVR garage (ie specialist TVR garage, Dealer and private and probaby ebay (!) are better).
I would also be sure that you are paying the right money - S6 cerbs are at an all time low price. A 99 S6 could easily be as low as 12K.
Well I'm not long back from having a look at her and she's certainly a goregeous car. The dealer has had the car for about 18 months as his own and appears to have spent a good amount on sorting out any problems. He had a V8 previously and wanted to try the S6. Although the dealer is a non-specialist any work has been carried out by David Gerald TVR, who actually sold the car in the first place and I'll certainly be ringing them tomorrow to get their opinion on it.
The engine hasn't been rebuilt but it has had some work done on it (tappetts etc) as DG advised that was all the work that needed doing. Their are a few little bits and pieces that need sorting out before I'd consider buying it: It's going to need new tyres soon so if I can get those thrown in and come to an agreement about getting DG to service it... BUT my main concern is that it is pinking. That will apparently be sorted before sale but it's a worry. Is it a common problem? It's running on Optimax so it's not the fuel.
With regards to the warranty, it's not one I've heard of before. Basically it comes with a years warranty for up to £300 of work. To get up to a grand it will cost me £70 and then £70 per £'000 thereafter. Oh and it's transferrable if I sell the car and there's no limit on the number of jobs. Hoping there is going to be some flexibility in there but would plan on getting a £2000 for two years.
My next step if I definately go for it is to get my uncle to have a look at it. He's not a TVR specialist but really knows his way round a car. The man's hobby is "engineering", and he has a passion for restoring vintage tractors ffs lol so he might spot things I haven't.
It's looking like it's going to be pretty much a straight swap for my 52 plate S2000 if I go for it. Is my heart leading me astray here, or does it sound reasonable? Any advice on anything else I should do/check?
The engine hasn't been rebuilt but it has had some work done on it (tappetts etc) as DG advised that was all the work that needed doing. Their are a few little bits and pieces that need sorting out before I'd consider buying it: It's going to need new tyres soon so if I can get those thrown in and come to an agreement about getting DG to service it... BUT my main concern is that it is pinking. That will apparently be sorted before sale but it's a worry. Is it a common problem? It's running on Optimax so it's not the fuel.
With regards to the warranty, it's not one I've heard of before. Basically it comes with a years warranty for up to £300 of work. To get up to a grand it will cost me £70 and then £70 per £'000 thereafter. Oh and it's transferrable if I sell the car and there's no limit on the number of jobs. Hoping there is going to be some flexibility in there but would plan on getting a £2000 for two years.
My next step if I definately go for it is to get my uncle to have a look at it. He's not a TVR specialist but really knows his way round a car. The man's hobby is "engineering", and he has a passion for restoring vintage tractors ffs lol so he might spot things I haven't.
It's looking like it's going to be pretty much a straight swap for my 52 plate S2000 if I go for it. Is my heart leading me astray here, or does it sound reasonable? Any advice on anything else I should do/check?
An Engine rebuild is going to cost a lot more than £300, probsbly nearer the £5k mark.
Everything here depends on the price your paying for the car, if you love the car and it's a good price go for it, but it is a risk, so just be prepared. Remember, to all intents and purposes, it's exactly the same car as a V8, so if your buying it a few grand cheaper than a comparable year/mileage V8, then the few grand that your 'saving' can be used for a rebuild IF it goes wrong.
A few people may disagree on this, but if I was doing a 15 minute commute through town traffic each day, a Cerb is the last car I'd choose. Buy a cheap runaround for work and save the Cerb for weekends.
Everything here depends on the price your paying for the car, if you love the car and it's a good price go for it, but it is a risk, so just be prepared. Remember, to all intents and purposes, it's exactly the same car as a V8, so if your buying it a few grand cheaper than a comparable year/mileage V8, then the few grand that your 'saving' can be used for a rebuild IF it goes wrong.
A few people may disagree on this, but if I was doing a 15 minute commute through town traffic each day, a Cerb is the last car I'd choose. Buy a cheap runaround for work and save the Cerb for weekends.
jensena said:
An Engine rebuild is going to cost a lot more than £300, probsbly nearer the £5k mark.
Everything here depends on the price your paying for the car, if you love the car and it's a good price go for it, but it is a risk, so just be prepared. Remember, to all intents and purposes, it's exactly the same car as a V8, so if your buying it a few grand cheaper than a comparable year/mileage V8, then the few grand that your 'saving' can be used for a rebuild IF it goes wrong.
A few people may disagree on this, but if I was doing a 15 minute commute through town traffic each day, a Cerb is the last car I'd choose. Buy a cheap runaround for work and save the Cerb for weekends.
Everything here depends on the price your paying for the car, if you love the car and it's a good price go for it, but it is a risk, so just be prepared. Remember, to all intents and purposes, it's exactly the same car as a V8, so if your buying it a few grand cheaper than a comparable year/mileage V8, then the few grand that your 'saving' can be used for a rebuild IF it goes wrong.
A few people may disagree on this, but if I was doing a 15 minute commute through town traffic each day, a Cerb is the last car I'd choose. Buy a cheap runaround for work and save the Cerb for weekends.
Clearly the £300 warranty is a bit of a joke when it comes to TVRs, which is why I'd go for at least a £2K warranty possibly more I don't see £140 as unreasonable for some peace of mind at least.
Re the commute the banger run around had crossed my mind too, as well as artificially lengthening my commute, dropping the o/h at her work in her car and looking at a job further away. Think the heart is taking control here don't you? lol
eyebeebe said:
Think the heart is taking control here don't you? lol
Unfortunately that's part of the problem when jumping in and buying a TVR.
Personally I'd avoid the car you have described unless it was at the right price (IMO of course). 52 plate S2000's fetch between £13-£16k dependant upon mileage, if it was at the bottom end of that price range or lower then it's not too bad a deal (but better for the dealer!!), but then it also depends on the age (1999) and condition of the S6. If the engine does let go soon then you can add upto £5k on what you've paid, the next question you have to ask yourself is is the car worth your purchase price plus a potential big bill on top? If so and you're keeping it for a few years then fine.
ps can't believe he let you test drive it with it pinking
, it's almost as though he is letting you know exactly what you are buying............ Jules.
Edited by Cyclone1 on Sunday 17th September 21:12
At 28,000 you got maybe 5000 miles left on the engine at the max. Mine went at 34,000 at it the high mileage engine before a rebuild I've seen. It's a 99 Cerbera spped six.
Don't think you'll be lucky. The engine usually last between 20,000 and 30,000.
The rebuild will cost £4K - £5K.
While your at it, the clutch is probably on it's way out. They do 25000 max. They break fingers as the thrust bearing pushes (the engine shakes too much), if the clutch pedal feels stiff and doesn't feel like a normal car's clutch, it's on it's way out - £900. At the same time you'll need to change the clutch seals as well. - £58 plus labour.
Oh, the starter motor sits ontop of the bell housing and it bakes in the heat from the exhausts so change it at the same time as the clutch - £300 for replace motor, it will last 2 yrs if your lucky.
The radiator will be beginning at leak at a 99 as well - £300 plus labour.
I don't believe there is a warranty worth taking on a 99. TVR Power do a good one, but for only for cars under 5 yrs and that cost £1300.
I reckon a 99 Cerbera with 28000 in mint condition with no rebuild, no new clutch, clutch seals, starter motor is worth £11,000 to £12,000. You'll then need another £5K to fix it at least.
Once done, it's a brillant car.
Get the exact warranty details in writting and checked by a solictor if it's the garage providing the warrantty. I was had with one on my Cerbera.
Don't rush in buying eaither, they're loads of good Cerbera's on Pistonhead's classified.
If I had my time again, I'd buy a V8 4.5.
Best to speak to Dom at TVR Power in coventry.
Cheers
John
Don't think you'll be lucky. The engine usually last between 20,000 and 30,000.
The rebuild will cost £4K - £5K.
While your at it, the clutch is probably on it's way out. They do 25000 max. They break fingers as the thrust bearing pushes (the engine shakes too much), if the clutch pedal feels stiff and doesn't feel like a normal car's clutch, it's on it's way out - £900. At the same time you'll need to change the clutch seals as well. - £58 plus labour.
Oh, the starter motor sits ontop of the bell housing and it bakes in the heat from the exhausts so change it at the same time as the clutch - £300 for replace motor, it will last 2 yrs if your lucky.
The radiator will be beginning at leak at a 99 as well - £300 plus labour.
I don't believe there is a warranty worth taking on a 99. TVR Power do a good one, but for only for cars under 5 yrs and that cost £1300.
I reckon a 99 Cerbera with 28000 in mint condition with no rebuild, no new clutch, clutch seals, starter motor is worth £11,000 to £12,000. You'll then need another £5K to fix it at least.
Once done, it's a brillant car.
Get the exact warranty details in writting and checked by a solictor if it's the garage providing the warrantty. I was had with one on my Cerbera.
Don't rush in buying eaither, they're loads of good Cerbera's on Pistonhead's classified.
If I had my time again, I'd buy a V8 4.5.
Best to speak to Dom at TVR Power in coventry.
Cheers
John
johnbear said:
the clutch is probably on it's way out. They do 25000 max. They break fingers as the thrust bearing pushes (the engine shakes too much
Sorry for the hijack. I've been curious about why they go, and this is the first time I've seen that suggested as a cause. What makes you think it's a vibration problem?
johnbear said:
At 28,000 you got maybe 5000 miles left on the engine at the max. Mine went at 34,000 at it the high mileage engine before a rebuild I've seen. It's a 99 Cerbera spped six.
Don't think you'll be lucky. The engine usually last between 20,000 and 30,000.
The rebuild will cost £4K - £5K.
While your at it, the clutch is probably on it's way out. They do 25000 max. They break fingers as the thrust bearing pushes (the engine shakes too much), if the clutch pedal feels stiff and doesn't feel like a normal car's clutch, it's on it's way out - £900. At the same time you'll need to change the clutch seals as well. - £58 plus labour.
Oh, the starter motor sits ontop of the bell housing and it bakes in the heat from the exhausts so change it at the same time as the clutch - £300 for replace motor, it will last 2 yrs if your lucky.
The radiator will be beginning at leak at a 99 as well - £300 plus labour.
I don't believe there is a warranty worth taking on a 99. TVR Power do a good one, but for only for cars under 5 yrs and that cost £1300.
I reckon a 99 Cerbera with 28000 in mint condition with no rebuild, no new clutch, clutch seals, starter motor is worth £11,000 to £12,000. You'll then need another £5K to fix it at least.
Once done, it's a brillant car.
Get the exact warranty details in writting and checked by a solictor if it's the garage providing the warrantty. I was had with one on my Cerbera.
Don't rush in buying eaither, they're loads of good Cerbera's on Pistonhead's classified.
If I had my time again, I'd buy a V8 4.5.
Best to speak to Dom at TVR Power in coventry.
Cheers
John
Don't think you'll be lucky. The engine usually last between 20,000 and 30,000.
The rebuild will cost £4K - £5K.
While your at it, the clutch is probably on it's way out. They do 25000 max. They break fingers as the thrust bearing pushes (the engine shakes too much), if the clutch pedal feels stiff and doesn't feel like a normal car's clutch, it's on it's way out - £900. At the same time you'll need to change the clutch seals as well. - £58 plus labour.
Oh, the starter motor sits ontop of the bell housing and it bakes in the heat from the exhausts so change it at the same time as the clutch - £300 for replace motor, it will last 2 yrs if your lucky.
The radiator will be beginning at leak at a 99 as well - £300 plus labour.
I don't believe there is a warranty worth taking on a 99. TVR Power do a good one, but for only for cars under 5 yrs and that cost £1300.
I reckon a 99 Cerbera with 28000 in mint condition with no rebuild, no new clutch, clutch seals, starter motor is worth £11,000 to £12,000. You'll then need another £5K to fix it at least.
Once done, it's a brillant car.
Get the exact warranty details in writting and checked by a solictor if it's the garage providing the warrantty. I was had with one on my Cerbera.
Don't rush in buying eaither, they're loads of good Cerbera's on Pistonhead's classified.
If I had my time again, I'd buy a V8 4.5.
Best to speak to Dom at TVR Power in coventry.
Cheers
John
John,
Thanks for the advice there. It has had a new clutch in the last 1000 miles so that doesn't need doing, but at the price that is being asked for the car and with the potential to go wrong I'm thinking about walking away. As you say there are many more out there.
My thoughts in general are heading towards getting a V8, rather than a S6. So thanks everyone for your help. I guess it leads me onto a new set of questions, but for now I guess the main ones are. Given the V8 isn't going to need a rebuild, what do I need to be looking out for and is a reasonable amount of miles an indication of a good one as opposed to a low mileage one. Looking on Autotrader there are a few 4.2s catching my eye with mileage varying from 17,000-45,000 (97-98 models)?
Move away from Autotrader! Use PHeads!
Whats your budget?
A 4.5 is more desirable (but not 'better') due to tuneability and popularity.
There are plenty of known V8s on pistonheads for sale.
A v8 might need rebuilding - just more unlikely. Should certainly see 50K plus miles on a V8. Some are over 100K. Look for known cars (ie known owner, recommended by indies etc).
For 16 - 18K you could get an excellent 4.5 in the 99 - 00 pre lightweight era. You could shop around and knock 1 - 2k off that but then the provenance might be more questionable. BUT there are bargains out there - particularly good for those willing to do some work themselves.
Whats your budget?
A 4.5 is more desirable (but not 'better') due to tuneability and popularity.
There are plenty of known V8s on pistonheads for sale.
A v8 might need rebuilding - just more unlikely. Should certainly see 50K plus miles on a V8. Some are over 100K. Look for known cars (ie known owner, recommended by indies etc).
For 16 - 18K you could get an excellent 4.5 in the 99 - 00 pre lightweight era. You could shop around and knock 1 - 2k off that but then the provenance might be more questionable. BUT there are bargains out there - particularly good for those willing to do some work themselves.
gazzab said:
Move away from Autotrader! Use PHeads!
Whats your budget?
A 4.5 is more desirable (but not 'better') due to tuneability and popularity.
There are plenty of known V8s on pistonheads for sale.
A v8 might need rebuilding - just more unlikely. Should certainly see 50K plus miles on a V8. Some are over 100K. Look for known cars (ie known owner, recommended by indies etc).
For 16 - 18K you could get an excellent 4.5 in the 99 - 00 pre lightweight era. You could shop around and knock 1 - 2k off that but then the provenance might be more questionable. BUT there are bargains out there - particularly good for those willing to do some work themselves.
Whats your budget?
A 4.5 is more desirable (but not 'better') due to tuneability and popularity.
There are plenty of known V8s on pistonheads for sale.
A v8 might need rebuilding - just more unlikely. Should certainly see 50K plus miles on a V8. Some are over 100K. Look for known cars (ie known owner, recommended by indies etc).
For 16 - 18K you could get an excellent 4.5 in the 99 - 00 pre lightweight era. You could shop around and knock 1 - 2k off that but then the provenance might be more questionable. BUT there are bargains out there - particularly good for those willing to do some work themselves.
Point taken about Autotrader. I saw it coming a mile off lol
My budget is essentially my car + £1K so I've been looking at cars at around the £15K mark. This would leave me comfortable (but not happy) if I needed to drop an unexpected couple of grand on a reapir bill. I've been looking at dealers rather than private sales (hence using autotrader as well as PH) as I would prefer to drop one car off and pick the other up and I seem to have a phobia of selling a car privately. It is looking like I may have to rethink my strategy here though!
I guess £14K is about what you should get for the S2000?
You might find a cerb owner who wants to swap ?
An S2000 is a great car.
Now that the booster seats legislation MIGHT make the rear seats less useable then people might be up for a 2 seater!?
I guess a 4.2 is closer to your budget. You should be able to get a 98/99 4.2 ?
Up your budget to £17K and suddenly you are into a much better place!?
You might find a cerb owner who wants to swap ?
An S2000 is a great car.
Now that the booster seats legislation MIGHT make the rear seats less useable then people might be up for a 2 seater!?
I guess a 4.2 is closer to your budget. You should be able to get a 98/99 4.2 ?
Up your budget to £17K and suddenly you are into a much better place!?
gazzab said:
I guess £14K is about what you should get for the S2000?
You might find a cerb owner who wants to swap ?
An S2000 is a great car.
Now that the booster seats legislation MIGHT make the rear seats less useable then people might be up for a 2 seater!?
I guess a 4.2 is closer to your budget. You should be able to get a 98/99 4.2 ?
Up your budget to £17K and suddenly you are into a much better place!?
You might find a cerb owner who wants to swap ?
An S2000 is a great car.
Now that the booster seats legislation MIGHT make the rear seats less useable then people might be up for a 2 seater!?
I guess a 4.2 is closer to your budget. You should be able to get a 98/99 4.2 ?
Up your budget to £17K and suddenly you are into a much better place!?
I'm been offered that as a trade in so would hope to get a bit more than that if I sell it privately (It's got the hardtop as well which should add a bit). My problem with going up to £17K is if anything major goes wrong it's an extra £2K which could have been going towards it.
I agree the S2000 is a fantastic car, the only reason I want to change it is I was bitten by the TVR bug when I first saw a Griffith when I was 12 (back in 92) but now fancy the cerbera as I love the lines and the slightly useful back seats.
Performance wise a 4.2 will do me fine and I don't want to look at tuning it at the moment as the only company that will sensibly talk to me about group 20's is Admiral (A Plan can't touch them) and when you start mentioning modifcations they start being a lot less sensible!
But if anyone does fancy a trade...
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