GTi-R - most overlooked Jap car?
Discussion
Why do people always look down their noses and overlook Nissan Pulsar Gti-R's?
Yes its an old car now (first game out 1990, so expect any old turbo car to need tlc and possible rebuild by now) and yes it can look, in some people's eyes, ugly and chavy, but hiding behind that is still a bl**dy damn quick pocket rocket of a hot hatch that has feedback, raw thrills and chuckability in abudance. Improve the famous "faults" with a Front Mount IC, slightly bigger wheels and better brakes, and its a drivers toy.
Becuase it had virtually a non-existant rally history (Nissan pulled the plug after the first season instead of developing it) people overlook the road car.
The three main Jap mags never give it much attention compared to 100's of scoobs and evos all the time (OK seems Jap Performance has a blue one this month), tuners are not interested becuase the money/amount aren't there like newer cars, but it still has a cult following where many owners keep them for years.
I admit, there are some serious taty ones around now that have either been neglected or even imported poorly, and some haven't been setup properly, a must for an old turbo car that was designed to run on high octaine fuel in Japan, so they can't be run on a shoe string.
At totb5, considered the top tuner event, if you take out the big money tuner and company demo vehicles including Skylines, evos, scoobs etc, the 3 private entered Pulsars did very well amongst all the private entries, but no mention about this anywhere. But then even Gran Turismo3 and 4 mucked up and left the car out.
A dying breed, but can be an awesome pocket rocket.
Yes its an old car now (first game out 1990, so expect any old turbo car to need tlc and possible rebuild by now) and yes it can look, in some people's eyes, ugly and chavy, but hiding behind that is still a bl**dy damn quick pocket rocket of a hot hatch that has feedback, raw thrills and chuckability in abudance. Improve the famous "faults" with a Front Mount IC, slightly bigger wheels and better brakes, and its a drivers toy.
Becuase it had virtually a non-existant rally history (Nissan pulled the plug after the first season instead of developing it) people overlook the road car.
The three main Jap mags never give it much attention compared to 100's of scoobs and evos all the time (OK seems Jap Performance has a blue one this month), tuners are not interested becuase the money/amount aren't there like newer cars, but it still has a cult following where many owners keep them for years.
I admit, there are some serious taty ones around now that have either been neglected or even imported poorly, and some haven't been setup properly, a must for an old turbo car that was designed to run on high octaine fuel in Japan, so they can't be run on a shoe string.
At totb5, considered the top tuner event, if you take out the big money tuner and company demo vehicles including Skylines, evos, scoobs etc, the 3 private entered Pulsars did very well amongst all the private entries, but no mention about this anywhere. But then even Gran Turismo3 and 4 mucked up and left the car out.
A dying breed, but can be an awesome pocket rocket.
Apart from a nasty habit of going badly wrong in the drivetrain dept (expensively) not a bad car, a nice original one is a rare thing these days. Sadly I think the looks were overdone & the Gti version was far more sublime.
Find a nice original un'bastardised one & I'b be knocking on your door.
Find a nice original un'bastardised one & I'b be knocking on your door.
I have heard stories of truly terrible understeer, even when compared to other 4wd cars like Subarus. But some also reckon they're less understeery so I'm not sure, haven't driven one myself.
Good cars though, probably the main reason they're often overlooked is that they were never made in the same numbers as EVOs/WRXs etc, and as you say they never got the chance to really develop a rally following as the factory pulled the plug. Theres a few still run in rallies down here in NZ, generally seem to be low to mid field though, the more competitive drivers are in Subs/Mitsis, or have decided to flag 4wd and drive classics instead.
EDIT: didn't Top Gear or 5th Gear drag a 400bhp GTi-R off against a Viper once? iirc the pulsar smoked it off the line and over the 1/4, but the Viper was pulling it in pretty rapidly on top end speed.
Good cars though, probably the main reason they're often overlooked is that they were never made in the same numbers as EVOs/WRXs etc, and as you say they never got the chance to really develop a rally following as the factory pulled the plug. Theres a few still run in rallies down here in NZ, generally seem to be low to mid field though, the more competitive drivers are in Subs/Mitsis, or have decided to flag 4wd and drive classics instead.
EDIT: didn't Top Gear or 5th Gear drag a 400bhp GTi-R off against a Viper once? iirc the pulsar smoked it off the line and over the 1/4, but the Viper was pulling it in pretty rapidly on top end speed.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 18th September 13:04
NISR227 said:
The three main Jap mags never give it much attention compared to 100's of scoobs and evos all the time (OK seems Jap Performance has a blue one this month), tuners are not interested becuase the money/amount aren't there like newer cars, but it still has a cult following where many owners keep them for years.
When was the last time you saw anything wasn't a WRX/Evo/RX/Skyline in a jap mag?
cptsideways said:
Sadly I think the looks were overdone & the Gti version was far more sublime.
I wouldn't go so far as to say a Pulsar/Sunny could ever look sublime Declan....
Seriously rapid motors though - my mates is probably the fastest point-to-point car I have ever been in. I think there is a tendancy to understeer but when driven well you'll see nice four wheel drifts everywhere.
Gazboy said:
Most overlooked Jap car is the Mitsubishi Eclipse....
IMHO only, that's because it was designed with the American market in mind.
All show and no go.....................
Looks very pretty, yes I'd have one for looks, but there are others I'd have over and above it.
More overlooked than the GTi-R is the 323GTR- 4WD turbo'd pocket rocket and when debadged no-one has a clue what it is. (okay okay so I played tag with one without realising what it was - I soon found out! :O )
Mr E said:
NISR227 said:
The three main Jap mags never give it much attention compared to 100's of scoobs and evos all the time (OK seems Jap Performance has a blue one this month), tuners are not interested becuase the money/amount aren't there like newer cars, but it still has a cult following where many owners keep them for years.
When was the last time you saw anything wasn't a WRX/Evo/RX/Skyline in a jap mag?
Sadly true. I keep flicking through the 3 Jap mags every month in the hope of a nice Honda (i.e. anything BUT a boosted EP3) or ANYTHING n/aspirated, and keep being disappointed. Seems the art of tuning now (according to the mags) is 'buy a bigger turbo'.
Yeah we can all fit big turbos on, and its what mags are all obsessed about now.
Surely what makes a car is the drivabilty and feedback, in the case of turbos' the lack of lag, its smoothness, and how much you can use its power. Going back to the Pulsar, it has bags of this, the standard T28 and hybrid versions, if mapped correctly spool up quickly combined with faily low weight for a 4wd in a small package add up to a very fast exit out of slow opening corners. Still very quick for such an old car now.
Surely what makes a car is the drivabilty and feedback, in the case of turbos' the lack of lag, its smoothness, and how much you can use its power. Going back to the Pulsar, it has bags of this, the standard T28 and hybrid versions, if mapped correctly spool up quickly combined with faily low weight for a 4wd in a small package add up to a very fast exit out of slow opening corners. Still very quick for such an old car now.
Edited by NISR227 on Monday 18th September 22:04
Nah, as standard they way closer to 1220kg fully loaded with electrics, a/c etc (some more with sunroof and options), but can be made far lighter by ditching full a/c (23kg), using light wheels etc. Mine's been offically weighed, with lighter mods, at 1182kg on a weigh bridge (limited fuel, without me in it) and I know many others similar. The highly tuned ones approach 1100kg with strippping, CF bonnets etc, and some have gone full extreme (!) (eg awd in scotland) to get near 1000kg, but are basically race cars. Light for 4wd.
Jodi, I rememeber yours, it was that red one in CCC many many years ago that they weighed, never understood the weight they got though..... unless you were in it, full tank, heavier wheels, exhaust etc. All weights quoted for cars in mags (for comparison reasons) are usually dry.
As standard it does 60 in 5.4secs according to many different tests (not 6.1 as autocar tested a poor example but some mags seem to quote this), I've also seen tests get 5.2, even 5.0 dead for some. 1/4mile is 13.9 secs. There's no way a standard 220bhp 4wd pulsar would get those times if it was over 1350kg. Now 60 and 1/4 mile times are not everything, but it does give an idea of its weight and performance low down. The standard one now can feel sluggish (if your use to near 300bhp) and there are many getting into 12s for 1/4 with minimal mods.
STEVE
www.letstorquebhp.com
Jodi, I rememeber yours, it was that red one in CCC many many years ago that they weighed, never understood the weight they got though..... unless you were in it, full tank, heavier wheels, exhaust etc. All weights quoted for cars in mags (for comparison reasons) are usually dry.
As standard it does 60 in 5.4secs according to many different tests (not 6.1 as autocar tested a poor example but some mags seem to quote this), I've also seen tests get 5.2, even 5.0 dead for some. 1/4mile is 13.9 secs. There's no way a standard 220bhp 4wd pulsar would get those times if it was over 1350kg. Now 60 and 1/4 mile times are not everything, but it does give an idea of its weight and performance low down. The standard one now can feel sluggish (if your use to near 300bhp) and there are many getting into 12s for 1/4 with minimal mods.
STEVE
www.letstorquebhp.com
Edited by NISR227 on Tuesday 19th September 08:36
Nicol@ said:
I know they are supposed to be good/fast cars, but I think they look like old fiestas with a bad bodykit.
I agree on the looks side. Not my cup of tea at all.
I don't mean this to sound condescending but I think they're a great entry into the turbo-tuning game and, while there are many die-hard fans I suspect many move on to more expensive/serious motors.
As for the lack of tuners with experience - you're always going to get this with a niche motor. When I got my RX 3 years ago the tuning companies around were (with a few exceptions) still learning their trade. 'Known' parts and upgrades were expensive and many projects were 90% R&D. Now every chav and his dog has one there's more money and everything's been done many times and tuning is cheaper and more predictable...
NISR227 said:
Nah, as standard they way closer to 1220kg fully loaded with electrics, a/c etc (some more with sunroof and options), but can be made far lighter by ditching full a/c (23kg), using light wheels etc. Mine's been offically weighed, with lighter mods, at 1182kg on a weigh bridge (limited fuel, without me in it) and I know many others similar. The highly tuned ones approach 1100kg with strippping, CF bonnets etc, and some have gone full extreme (!) (eg awd in scotland) to get near 1000kg, but are basically race cars. Light for 4wd.
Jodi, I rememeber yours, it was that red one in CCC many many years ago that they weighed, never understood the weight they got though..... unless you were in it, full tank, heavier wheels, exhaust etc. All weights quoted for cars in mags (for comparison reasons) are usually dry.
As standard it does 60 in 5.4secs according to many different tests (not 6.1 as autocar tested a poor example but some mags seem to quote this), I've also seen tests get 5.2, even 5.0 dead for some. 1/4mile is 13.9 secs. There's no way a standard 220bhp 4wd pulsar would get those times if it was over 1350kg. Now 60 and 1/4 mile times are not everything, but it does give an idea of its weight and performance low down. The standard one now can feel sluggish (if your use to near 300bhp) and there are many getting into 12s for 1/4 with minimal mods.
STEVE
www.letstorquebhp.com
Jodi, I rememeber yours, it was that red one in CCC many many years ago that they weighed, never understood the weight they got though..... unless you were in it, full tank, heavier wheels, exhaust etc. All weights quoted for cars in mags (for comparison reasons) are usually dry.
As standard it does 60 in 5.4secs according to many different tests (not 6.1 as autocar tested a poor example but some mags seem to quote this), I've also seen tests get 5.2, even 5.0 dead for some. 1/4mile is 13.9 secs. There's no way a standard 220bhp 4wd pulsar would get those times if it was over 1350kg. Now 60 and 1/4 mile times are not everything, but it does give an idea of its weight and performance low down. The standard one now can feel sluggish (if your use to near 300bhp) and there are many getting into 12s for 1/4 with minimal mods.
STEVE
www.letstorquebhp.com
Edited by NISR227 on Tuesday 19th September 08:36
hi Steve,
yeap, that was my red one. i did have 17's on, but was not in car when weighed. i think the official spec is 1230 kg (see: www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=25025&Nissan )
i went through a lot of greif with tuning my gtir. it was still an untapped market. no-one had really doen much. the gearbox being the weekest point. in the end, i spent WAY too much on it. ended up with the quaife box (big mistake) paddle clutch (another mistake) etc but was still a lot of fun.
i think they look great for what they are, an agressive rally car.
They do have terrible understeer as a guy at Abingdon airfield last Friday complained about and tuning reveals the power train cannot handle it with spending loads of cash on quaife units, the other issue if you start increasing the power and taking it anywhere near a track is brakes, this guy had a willwood big brake kit and her still had trouble (Though it could also be his driving style).
But at the end of the day its a cheap 4WD, fairly powerful little hatch if a little over styled.
But at the end of the day its a cheap 4WD, fairly powerful little hatch if a little over styled.
Re the understeer, ask the driver on that track day, did he fit all the whiteline gear (arb's, bushes etc), makes a big difference on an old car with worn parts.
Jodi, yeah your car looked good at the time, I've had mine for over 6 years now and i've seen how the tuning market for the car has moved on over this time, people now know how to get the best out of the car. Personally I take the opinion, stick to the standard box if your staying under 350bhp (mines 330) use the best box oil, light wheels and organic clutch to reduced the stress on the box. Touch wood, mine's been fine, only brok the transfer box one time. Anyway, 500 quid for box rebuild isn't that much... my bro spent that on just a set of tyres on his Evo5 after a few trackdays!
Quaife were condsidered the best at the time, but since many have now broken I would avoid them now. PPR dog boxes seem the best on the market, both Lou Rob (600, and going for more) and Mike (640+) have built them into their extreme cars that should be seen at shows, and hopefully time attack time events, over the next year.
People look at them as cheap turbos, although it should be pointed out if it has problems then they can be expensive to run, but think about this, a 1bar R, setup well to 280bhp will hit 100 high 11secs, setup to 300 will be high 10's, and 1.2bar 330 if done correctly, 10.0 dead to 100. All times i've seen obtained with offical equipment. All for just minor mods (no mods internals) if done correctly.
Even JTuner mag, that's been timing all sorts of "private" owned Jap cars from Pulsars to Skylines, Supras and Scoobs for the last 18 months, still have a Pulsar at their top of their offical 0-60 leaderboard with 3.5secs on a damp foggy air strip where cars have been struggling for grip, and that was with a car only running about 420bhp.
But it still doesn't get much praise. The fact that i've surprised so many cars, including twistie roads, shows that so many people suprisingly still don't know what they are, great fun, and what they are about.
Jodi, yeah your car looked good at the time, I've had mine for over 6 years now and i've seen how the tuning market for the car has moved on over this time, people now know how to get the best out of the car. Personally I take the opinion, stick to the standard box if your staying under 350bhp (mines 330) use the best box oil, light wheels and organic clutch to reduced the stress on the box. Touch wood, mine's been fine, only brok the transfer box one time. Anyway, 500 quid for box rebuild isn't that much... my bro spent that on just a set of tyres on his Evo5 after a few trackdays!
Quaife were condsidered the best at the time, but since many have now broken I would avoid them now. PPR dog boxes seem the best on the market, both Lou Rob (600, and going for more) and Mike (640+) have built them into their extreme cars that should be seen at shows, and hopefully time attack time events, over the next year.
People look at them as cheap turbos, although it should be pointed out if it has problems then they can be expensive to run, but think about this, a 1bar R, setup well to 280bhp will hit 100 high 11secs, setup to 300 will be high 10's, and 1.2bar 330 if done correctly, 10.0 dead to 100. All times i've seen obtained with offical equipment. All for just minor mods (no mods internals) if done correctly.
Even JTuner mag, that's been timing all sorts of "private" owned Jap cars from Pulsars to Skylines, Supras and Scoobs for the last 18 months, still have a Pulsar at their top of their offical 0-60 leaderboard with 3.5secs on a damp foggy air strip where cars have been struggling for grip, and that was with a car only running about 420bhp.
But it still doesn't get much praise. The fact that i've surprised so many cars, including twistie roads, shows that so many people suprisingly still don't know what they are, great fun, and what they are about.
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