This is really is a difficult driving situation.
Discussion
I was returning to base at about 1am in a big truck I was travelling through a business park that should be quite at night but the local youths had had a "Max Power" night, you know the sort of thing, every other car was a Corsa.
Only the stragglers where left, I was on a long single carraigway section that gently curves to the left, I can see for about 200 yards, in what seemed like a second i noticed a car up behind me, he was, i thought looking up my lefthand side to see if there was anything coming the otherway, then i suddenly realised there where 2 cylists coming towards me on their own side of the road, one had lights on i think, and he was on the outside.
I heard the guy behind change down a gear and boot it.
Can you imagine what would have happened next?
What would you have done?
What do you think i did?
Only the stragglers where left, I was on a long single carraigway section that gently curves to the left, I can see for about 200 yards, in what seemed like a second i noticed a car up behind me, he was, i thought looking up my lefthand side to see if there was anything coming the otherway, then i suddenly realised there where 2 cylists coming towards me on their own side of the road, one had lights on i think, and he was on the outside.
I heard the guy behind change down a gear and boot it.
Can you imagine what would have happened next?
What would you have done?
What do you think i did?
My main concern was that if I try and anticipate what I think might happen and then try to prevent it, if it all goes pear shaped then a smart solicitor could blame me.
But if on the other hand I just proceed along at my normal pace the events that might unfold won't have been influenced by me doing anything other than what is expected of me.
But if on the other hand I just proceed along at my normal pace the events that might unfold won't have been influenced by me doing anything other than what is expected of me.
If you indicate right, regardless of whether you pull out, then the overtaking driver fixates on the lorry and will swerve to avoid it coming out into his path. Much higher chance of never seeing the bikes and scoring a hit.
A few ideas for discussion...
1. If he is committed to the pass, then all running lights off (illegal, but increases chance of spotting bikes). Loud horn blast (also illegal if built-up area), and, once you can see he is out for the o/t, hard on the brakes, tuck into the left to create room.
2. If he's not committed to the o/t, then out to centreline, show brakes and indicate left. Horn optional if you feel you aren't doing enough lawbreaking.
3. Alternatively, turn up the chillipeppers and do nothing wrong so that the clever lawyers can't implicate you.
A few ideas for discussion...
1. If he is committed to the pass, then all running lights off (illegal, but increases chance of spotting bikes). Loud horn blast (also illegal if built-up area), and, once you can see he is out for the o/t, hard on the brakes, tuck into the left to create room.
2. If he's not committed to the o/t, then out to centreline, show brakes and indicate left. Horn optional if you feel you aren't doing enough lawbreaking.
3. Alternatively, turn up the chillipeppers and do nothing wrong so that the clever lawyers can't implicate you.
Had a very similar circumstance recently but in daylight and in good conditions.
Following a slow driver averaging 35-40mph on an NSL with a guy in his late 50's early 60's driving a basic Astra right up my bumper.
Come to a decent straight, I close gap slightly and ease out. Spot cyclist coming opposite way in nice bright gear so back to normal following position.
Astra driver pulls out and slowly overtakes, I indicate right apply brakes and sound horn. Astra driver continues overtake and forces cyclist onto verge (complete with hand signal of non friendly manner).
Having watched this I was appaled and angry, yet Astra driver then continues to overtake the next vehicle which he only completes 10yds after double white lines and entering a right hand bend which has a farm entrance on it (which is clearly signposted).
Don't think there is much else I could have done tbh.
Incidently I overtook the car in front about 2 miles later and caught the Astra driver within another 2miles. He was only going about 5 mph quicker than the original car holding us up.
Following a slow driver averaging 35-40mph on an NSL with a guy in his late 50's early 60's driving a basic Astra right up my bumper.
Come to a decent straight, I close gap slightly and ease out. Spot cyclist coming opposite way in nice bright gear so back to normal following position.
Astra driver pulls out and slowly overtakes, I indicate right apply brakes and sound horn. Astra driver continues overtake and forces cyclist onto verge (complete with hand signal of non friendly manner).
Having watched this I was appaled and angry, yet Astra driver then continues to overtake the next vehicle which he only completes 10yds after double white lines and entering a right hand bend which has a farm entrance on it (which is clearly signposted).
Don't think there is much else I could have done tbh.
Incidently I overtook the car in front about 2 miles later and caught the Astra driver within another 2miles. He was only going about 5 mph quicker than the original car holding us up.
ing clue, do it anyway, and put people in danger need REPORTING. What I'd like to know is did the lads actually overtake, or did they on moving into the take-off position see the oncoming bicycles and hold back?
You cannot act like God in a car. You can only control your car. The cyclists, one would hope, would have been observing the road ahead and, being very narrow, one would hope that they were able to move in nicely to the nearside of the road.
You cannot act like God in a car. You can only control your car. The cyclists, one would hope, would have been observing the road ahead and, being very narrow, one would hope that they were able to move in nicely to the nearside of the road.
I would:
1. Blow the horn sharply.
2. Flash high-beam once, very briefly.
3.
a) If the driver is overtaking on the same side as the cyclists: Adjust the driving line to create maximum room for the driver and the approaching cyclists.
b) If the driver is overtaking on the opposite side to the cyclists: Remain on my current course.
4. Reduce speed gradually, using the brake lights, as soon as the driver is reasonably clear of your driving line.
This would hopefully alert the cyclists to the hazard of two oncoming vehicles (the horn), indicate to the driver that there are hazards ahead (flashing the high-beam), inform the driver that his/her action is dangerous (the horn), and create opportunity to perform collision avoidance manoeuvre if the proverbial pooh hits the fan (making room and adjusting speed). I am assuming that the distance to the cyclists was enough to safely perform all the above actions - ie. greater than 100-150 yards).
1. Blow the horn sharply.
2. Flash high-beam once, very briefly.
3.
a) If the driver is overtaking on the same side as the cyclists: Adjust the driving line to create maximum room for the driver and the approaching cyclists.
b) If the driver is overtaking on the opposite side to the cyclists: Remain on my current course.
4. Reduce speed gradually, using the brake lights, as soon as the driver is reasonably clear of your driving line.
This would hopefully alert the cyclists to the hazard of two oncoming vehicles (the horn), indicate to the driver that there are hazards ahead (flashing the high-beam), inform the driver that his/her action is dangerous (the horn), and create opportunity to perform collision avoidance manoeuvre if the proverbial pooh hits the fan (making room and adjusting speed). I am assuming that the distance to the cyclists was enough to safely perform all the above actions - ie. greater than 100-150 yards).
Edited by Jungles on Wednesday 20th September 12:23
Depends on how far away the cyclist were and how fast I was heading towards them.
I really think it's best to maintain your speed in these situations, after all if they start to overtake and then realise their mistake they may want to brake very heavily and return to their lane - not easy if I'm also braking.
However, once they have nearly completed the overtake I would be ready on the brakes just in case they need to cut in sharply to avoid the cyclists.
I really think it's best to maintain your speed in these situations, after all if they start to overtake and then realise their mistake they may want to brake very heavily and return to their lane - not easy if I'm also braking.
However, once they have nearly completed the overtake I would be ready on the brakes just in case they need to cut in sharply to avoid the cyclists.
leosayer said:
I really think it's best to maintain your speed in these situations, after all if they start to overtake and then realise their mistake they may want to brake very heavily and return to their lane - not easy if I'm also braking.
Although that's true, I think that applying the brakes is the most effective way to make somebody think twice before overtaking you - I mean gently slowing down and not brake testing them. Pulling into their path imo is likely to make them think you're trying to obstruct them and focus on you as a threat not the surroundings, pull away from their path is likely to be seen as helping them overtake and encouraging them to go ahead with it. Braking is the most effective way I can think of to discourage them. Would you overtake somebody who applied the brakes as you were about to? I know I wouldn't, unless I could see why they had done it and knew (or thought I knew) what they were planning to do. It also means that as speeds drop the situation unfolds more slowly and the cyclist is further away when the overtaker makes their go/no-go decision and they both have longer to spot each other.
Blowing the horn also alerts the cyclist and the overtaker to the fact that something unusual is going on and gets all three of you on the lookout.
The 2 guys on bikes had those green vests and overalls so they where either going too or from work, they where riding side by side and having a chat.
There was probably more than one right way of doing this but most of you are thinking the same way.
First thing i did was to flash like mad at the cyclists, my intention being to get their attention to the probable danger this also made them very visable due to the green vests, I also blew the horn in panic fashion, I didn't alter my speed or position(I didn't want blaming for anything).
The car nearly halfway along side me then realised somebody was going to get hurt, the cyclist couldn't get in single file so they just moved left, touched i think the guy on the nearside half fell, half walked off his bike, if you know what I mean, the car braked hard, snaked a little then tucked in behind.
Luckily the bikers where ok but obviously annoyed, the car stayed behind,at the next roundabout I turned left, they went straight on.
IMO had I been fiddling with the radio and not realised what was happening I think the car could have taken the outside cyclist out then would probably side swiped me and fired off to our right.
Maybe this wouldn't have been the outcome but it would have been very very close.
There was probably more than one right way of doing this but most of you are thinking the same way.
First thing i did was to flash like mad at the cyclists, my intention being to get their attention to the probable danger this also made them very visable due to the green vests, I also blew the horn in panic fashion, I didn't alter my speed or position(I didn't want blaming for anything).
The car nearly halfway along side me then realised somebody was going to get hurt, the cyclist couldn't get in single file so they just moved left, touched i think the guy on the nearside half fell, half walked off his bike, if you know what I mean, the car braked hard, snaked a little then tucked in behind.
Luckily the bikers where ok but obviously annoyed, the car stayed behind,at the next roundabout I turned left, they went straight on.
IMO had I been fiddling with the radio and not realised what was happening I think the car could have taken the outside cyclist out then would probably side swiped me and fired off to our right.
Maybe this wouldn't have been the outcome but it would have been very very close.
Edited by slowly slowly on Wednesday 20th September 14:03
Edited by slowly slowly on Wednesday 20th September 14:04
GreenV8S said:
Although that's true, I think that applying the brakes is the most effective way to make somebody think twice before overtaking you - I mean gently slowing down and not brake testing them. Pulling into their path imo is likely to make them think you're trying to obstruct them and focus on you as a threat not the surroundings, pull away from their path is likely to be seen as helping them overtake and encouraging them to go ahead with it. Braking is the most effective way I can think of to discourage them. Would you overtake somebody who applied the brakes as you were about to? I know I wouldn't, unless I could see why they had done it and knew (or thought I knew) what they were planning to do.
Yes but you think properly about what you're doing. Muppet is first thinking "here's some arsehole dawdling" then when you brake thinks "mega arsehole trying to
me around" or similar and blasts past. Example: Mate is driving a van at 30 in a 30, at night, muppet is tailgating. Mate sees hedgehog crossing the road and brakes gently to allow it time to cross. Muppet thinks mate is braking for no reason and blasts past, straight over the hedgehog.
GreenV8S said:
7db said:
Loud horn blast (also illegal if built-up area).
It isn't illegal if it's to warn of a potential danger, but I agree you'd do it anyway regardless of the legality.
It is if you are moving. Exception for potential danger is only when you are a stationary vehicle.
Edited by 7db on Thursday 21st September 08:03
7db said:
GreenV8S said:
7db said:
Loud horn blast (also illegal if built-up area).
It isn't illegal if it's to warn of a potential danger, but I agree you'd do it anyway regardless of the legality.
It is if you are moving. Exception for potential danger is only when you are a stationary vehicle.
Edited by 7db on Thursday 21st September 08:03
Haven't you got that the wrong way round?, or is it headlights on when stationary I'm thinking of.
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