Fixed Penalty NIP and Consequences of going to Court
Discussion
Hi everyone. I'm new to this site and signed up because I am hoping for some help. I was pulled over by the police yesterday near Southampton (A35), and given a fixed penalty ticket for 3 points and £60 fine. I'm am thinking of contesting it for reasons that I won't bore you with here.
Obviously, as it stands I could sign the form and send them a cheque and recieve 3 points on my license. Does any one know for sure what the costs are likely to be if I attend court and lose? And in particular, can the court give me more than 3 points? I was only 11mph over the speed limit, and am debating the way in which this was measured!!
Any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Smuggy.
Obviously, as it stands I could sign the form and send them a cheque and recieve 3 points on my license. Does any one know for sure what the costs are likely to be if I attend court and lose? And in particular, can the court give me more than 3 points? I was only 11mph over the speed limit, and am debating the way in which this was measured!!
Any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Smuggy.
Ok, I'll go first - there are a lot of topics on this, and all of them at some point will contain the following link -
www.pepipoo.com
www.pepipoo.com
Smuggy - it does rather depend on the limit in force at the time (11 over 30 is more serious than 11 over 70), as well as any other aggravating or mitigating circumstances in your particular case. Courts can award the level of fines, points and costs which they see as appropriate for your case, but they are strongly guided by the BenchBook recommendations.
Typically 11 over a 40 limit would result in 3pts with a fine of half of one week's disposable wages upto £1,000. It's not uncommon to get some costs added - £35-65 depending on the court.
Typically 11 over a 40 limit would result in 3pts with a fine of half of one week's disposable wages upto £1,000. It's not uncommon to get some costs added - £35-65 depending on the court.
I went to court (I was not given the chance of a FPN 
), the court costs, advised in advance, were £35. From what I understand if you are found guilty, you'll still get the 3 pts but the fine may be more than £60 - but the scammers don't get it 
Presumably if you're not guilty you don't pay the costs but I don't know if you can claim any of your costs (time off work, solicitor etc.) from the court or not, if you're lucky they may drop the case if the 'evidence' is dodgy.
Best of luck.
), the court costs, advised in advance, were £35. From what I understand if you are found guilty, you'll still get the 3 pts but the fine may be more than £60 - but the scammers don't get it Presumably if you're not guilty you don't pay the costs but I don't know if you can claim any of your costs (time off work, solicitor etc.) from the court or not, if you're lucky they may drop the case if the 'evidence' is dodgy.
Best of luck.
7db said:
Smuggy - it does rather depend on the limit in force at the time (11 over 30 is more serious than 11 over 70), as well as any other aggravating or mitigating circumstances in your particular case. Courts can award the level of fines, points and costs which they see as appropriate for your case, but they are strongly guided by the BenchBook recommendations.
Typically 11 over a 40 limit would result in 3pts with a fine of half of one week's disposable wages upto £1,000. It's not uncommon to get some costs added - £35-65 depending on the court.
Typically 11 over a 40 limit would result in 3pts with a fine of half of one week's disposable wages upto £1,000. It's not uncommon to get some costs added - £35-65 depending on the court.
Hi there - it was a 50mph limit on a dual carriageway - there weren't any other aggravating circumstances thankfully - just alleged speeding. The thing I'm now worried about is the fine, seeing as it seems the 11mph over is a good 3 pointer in all likelihood. My income is pretty high so half a weeks wages is quite alot. Is that if you plead innocence and get found guilty? Is it different if I apply for a court hearing (on the basis of wanting to see whether they've ticked all the right boxes in their evidence) and then plead guilty at court if their evidence is corroborated and complete?
Thanks, Smugs.
Edited by SmugSpice on Thursday 21st September 16:45
SmugSpice said:
7db said:
Smuggy - it does rather depend on the limit in force at the time (11 over 30 is more serious than 11 over 70), as well as any other aggravating or mitigating circumstances in your particular case. Courts can award the level of fines, points and costs which they see as appropriate for your case, but they are strongly guided by the BenchBook recommendations.
Typically 11 over a 40 limit would result in 3pts with a fine of half of one week's disposable wages upto £1,000. It's not uncommon to get some costs added - £35-65 depending on the court.
Typically 11 over a 40 limit would result in 3pts with a fine of half of one week's disposable wages upto £1,000. It's not uncommon to get some costs added - £35-65 depending on the court.
Hi there - it was a 50mph limit on a dual carriageway - there weren't any other aggravating circumstances thankfully - just alleged speeding. The thing I'm now worried about is the fine, seeing as it seems the 11mph over is a good 3 pointer in all likelihood. My income is pretty high so half a weeks wages is quite alot. Is that if you plead innocence and get found guilty? Is it different if I apply for a court hearing (on the basis of wanting to see whether they've ticked all the right boxes in their evidence) and then plead guilty at court if their evidence is corroborated and complete?
Thanks, Smugs.
Edited by SmugSpice on Thursday 21st September 16:45
The FPN is technically a 'one off' offer. I think even if you went to court, pleaded not guilty and lost you would still get 3 points as 11 mph is well within the magistrates guidelines. I would also find it unlikely that you fine would be any more than £200, most likely a lot less. You would be required to pay court costs though which may be £50 or therabouts. However, the other cost is the risk of increasing your insurance, I would check this first - if it makes no difference then fair enough, but if it increases by £200, remember it is £200 per year for the next 5 years, so £1000 total.
You can plead not guilty right up until you enter the courtroom and change your mind.
There is also a case for making the CPS prove their case. On many occasions they mess up, for example when I defended myself on one occasion I found myself in court with the CPS not being able to find ANY of their three witnesses!
As to your chances, if you can give as many details of what was said and done when you were pulled over and the *exact* circumstances myself and others may be able to offer a way forward, on a lot of occasions there is something 'strange' or inaccurate that may prove a lifeline.
It looks to me like you've got on one hand a guaranteed 3pts + £60 and on the other side
a chance of nothing at all or 3pts + £100ish maybe a smidge more (plus having to turn up).
How strong do you think your case is? Specifically, why do you think they will find you not guilty?
If you can't find a compelling answer to that, then the FPN would seem like a bargain.
a chance of nothing at all or 3pts + £100ish maybe a smidge more (plus having to turn up).
How strong do you think your case is? Specifically, why do you think they will find you not guilty?
If you can't find a compelling answer to that, then the FPN would seem like a bargain.
I thought that if you went to court, you were likely to get a higher fine or more points. I seem to recall reading this because it struck me as a form of intimidation.
Is this not the case? Obviously it will depend on individual circumstances but say for example you were supposedly doing 43 in a 30 - presumably a 3 pointer - would that still be the likely outcome in court? I'm sure I read that was not the case...
Is this not the case? Obviously it will depend on individual circumstances but say for example you were supposedly doing 43 in a 30 - presumably a 3 pointer - would that still be the likely outcome in court? I'm sure I read that was not the case...
zadumbreion said:
I thought that if you went to court, you were likely to get a higher fine or more points. I seem to recall reading this because it struck me as a form of intimidation.
Is this not the case? Obviously it will depend on individual circumstances but say for example you were supposedly doing 43 in a 30 - presumably a 3 pointer - would that still be the likely outcome in court? I'm sure I read that was not the case...
Is this not the case? Obviously it will depend on individual circumstances but say for example you were supposedly doing 43 in a 30 - presumably a 3 pointer - would that still be the likely outcome in court? I'm sure I read that was not the case...
It depends on the situation and the speed involved. There are magistrates guidelines for the amount of points they can sentence you for or even a ban depending on how much you are over the limit. Thus, on many occasions the magistrates guidelines actually state that the maximum sentence should still be 3 points.
However, it *can* happen that they simply dont know the guidelines. For example I was given 6 points for 93 in a 70. And no inconsiderate driving etc, this was a fine sunny day, dead straight dual carriageway with otherwise perfect driving.
justinp1 said:
zadumbreion said:
I thought that if you went to court, you were likely to get a higher fine or more points. I seem to recall reading this because it struck me as a form of intimidation.
Is this not the case? Obviously it will depend on individual circumstances but say for example you were supposedly doing 43 in a 30 - presumably a 3 pointer - would that still be the likely outcome in court? I'm sure I read that was not the case...
Is this not the case? Obviously it will depend on individual circumstances but say for example you were supposedly doing 43 in a 30 - presumably a 3 pointer - would that still be the likely outcome in court? I'm sure I read that was not the case...
It depends on the situation and the speed involved. There are magistrates guidelines for the amount of points they can sentence you for or even a ban depending on how much you are over the limit. Thus, on many occasions the magistrates guidelines actually state that the maximum sentence should still be 3 points.
However, it *can* happen that they simply dont know the guidelines. For example I was given 6 points for 93 in a 70. And no inconsiderate driving etc, this was a fine sunny day, dead straight dual carriageway with otherwise perfect driving.
Presumably though, you could point this out to the beaks?? I mean surely they have a duty to be aware of Magistrates guidelines?!! You're making me nervous about my impending court appearance!
jezzaaa said:
justinp1 said:
zadumbreion said:
I thought that if you went to court, you were likely to get a higher fine or more points. I seem to recall reading this because it struck me as a form of intimidation.
Is this not the case? Obviously it will depend on individual circumstances but say for example you were supposedly doing 43 in a 30 - presumably a 3 pointer - would that still be the likely outcome in court? I'm sure I read that was not the case...
Is this not the case? Obviously it will depend on individual circumstances but say for example you were supposedly doing 43 in a 30 - presumably a 3 pointer - would that still be the likely outcome in court? I'm sure I read that was not the case...
It depends on the situation and the speed involved. There are magistrates guidelines for the amount of points they can sentence you for or even a ban depending on how much you are over the limit. Thus, on many occasions the magistrates guidelines actually state that the maximum sentence should still be 3 points.
However, it *can* happen that they simply dont know the guidelines. For example I was given 6 points for 93 in a 70. And no inconsiderate driving etc, this was a fine sunny day, dead straight dual carriageway with otherwise perfect driving.
Presumably though, you could point this out to the beaks?? I mean surely they have a duty to be aware of Magistrates guidelines?!! You're making me nervous about my impending court appearance!
I did appeal against both conviction and sentence and got the points reduced to 4. I think that was a one-off and they realised a mistake was made.
The mags guidelines are pretty clear in your case that the max you are risking is 3 points against a potential maximum of 3 points do a pretty safe bet.
My money is still on your case at least a 50/50 that the CPS will drop it like a hot potato when they see it or even wait until just before the hearing to drop it in the hope that you may lose your nerve and plead guilty in the meantime.
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