Discussion
had a lotus for 3 months recently and as you now know have just got a t350
what needs to be bourne in mind is that a lotus elise uses mass produced components (bog standard rover engine!) and is very simple in both its design and build in comparison - so you can sort of see where he is coming from if you think about it as TVR's are way more complex than an Elise.
Bennno
>> Edited by bennno on Monday 3rd March 13:42
This is EXACTLY the decision I am struggling with. Not sure about the UK but the Aust. landed price will be the same, insurance same, performance different style but similar, practicality - probably TVR ahead, but I lived with a very early Elise as my only car for 3 years and it was fine (don't put the roof on, drive faster and occasionally park under freeway bridges if it's real bad). Reliability - interesting comments around re the TVR's in here, but the Lotus was very very good (despite some horror stories). Fun, TVR sounds like it's closing up on the handling / braking front and has some other tricks. Head turn, T350 has it now. Technology, the Elise is still special.
It's certainly not a no brainer, particularly now I have a 406 Coupe in the garage for 'normal' driving (well my other half has), and a Berlingo (my car !) for 'lugging'.
The Elise doesn't look the business (IMHO) anymore as the new styling has just lost the original muscular look. No problems with the T350 on that front. In addition (and this is a bit of a w#nk) the Elise is not the newest brightest toy on the block anymore, you do see a few on the road (even in Oz).
So, on balance, my answer will probably be based on availability, but were I in the UK, I'd buy the TVR and treat it like a baby to help along the reliability niggles. It appears to be worth the effort.
>> Edited by Peter_Ross on Tuesday 4th March 12:17
It's certainly not a no brainer, particularly now I have a 406 Coupe in the garage for 'normal' driving (well my other half has), and a Berlingo (my car !) for 'lugging'.
The Elise doesn't look the business (IMHO) anymore as the new styling has just lost the original muscular look. No problems with the T350 on that front. In addition (and this is a bit of a w#nk) the Elise is not the newest brightest toy on the block anymore, you do see a few on the road (even in Oz).
So, on balance, my answer will probably be based on availability, but were I in the UK, I'd buy the TVR and treat it like a baby to help along the reliability niggles. It appears to be worth the effort.
>> Edited by Peter_Ross on Tuesday 4th March 12:17
What a load of tosh!!
Performance similar to the Elise...do me a favour, your 406 has more similarities with the Lotus than the T350 has.
As for reliability well that's hardly an original comment or based on fact and I can qualify that having owned TVRs for over ten years.... I have had more problems with mass produced cars (excepting my Subaru Forester) than I've ever had with TVRs.
Performance similar to the Elise...do me a favour, your 406 has more similarities with the Lotus than the T350 has.
As for reliability well that's hardly an original comment or based on fact and I can qualify that having owned TVRs for over ten years.... I have had more problems with mass produced cars (excepting my Subaru Forester) than I've ever had with TVRs.
It may or may not be fact. I have never owned a TVR, you have that experience. There is a popular view (fact or otherwise) that there are niggling reliability issues with TVR's generally. Reliability here includes non-breakdown issues. Given that EVO compares the Boxster S and the 111s, and in this forum TVR's and Boxsters are compared, it seems a fair discussion to me.
It is human nature to compare stuff together - it gives us something to base judgements on. However, it isnt always correct for a comparison. an Elise or TVR.... hardly a direct comparison.... neither is a Boxster or Elise - they are somewhat different machines (and a considerably differing price too). Just because a magazine makes a comparison we need not make the same comparison..... dont forget that magazine comparisons are normally compromised by the ability to get access to the required cars at the same time in the same place....
An Elise is well known for its handling and lightness. A T350 is known for its speed - though its handling is extremely good (check out the comments from Flasher and Bennno for that).......
Not exactly a direct comparison is it?
Oh, and drop the unreliability thing - its been done to death and is getting somewhat boring now.
Cheers,
Paul
An Elise is well known for its handling and lightness. A T350 is known for its speed - though its handling is extremely good (check out the comments from Flasher and Bennno for that).......
Not exactly a direct comparison is it?
Oh, and drop the unreliability thing - its been done to death and is getting somewhat boring now.
Cheers,
Paul
Absolutely - performance isnt just sheer acceleration. But it all depends on what you want. I still get the major buzz from mine when I floor it at 2500 RPM and let the beast fly.... nothing (other than something pretty damn special) is going to get close to me when that happens.... then again, come the twisties, something like an Elise will 'do me'. Its all about what you want.....
Now if Lotus did a V6 or better in an Elise, we could be talking something special....rumours???
Cheers,
Paul
Now if Lotus did a V6 or better in an Elise, we could be talking something special....rumours???
Cheers,
Paul
pbrettle said:
An Elise is well known for its handling and lightness. A T350 is known for its speed - though its handling is extremely good (check out the comments from Flasher and Bennno for that).......
Not exactly a direct comparison is it?
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I've had similar dilemmas for my next purchase, i.e:
Newer Chimaera - ???bhp brutal V8, British, noise
E36 M3 - 321bhp engineering masterpiece S6, German, noise
S2000 - 240bhp manic techno marvel I4, Japanese, noise
Move house - 240v plug sockets, British, noise (lack of)
All very different, but valid to compare them given the similar-sized holes each would leave in my wallet each month.
PS - Newer Chim is least-favoured option. Wouldn't really gain anything and would have to give up the most reliable car I've ever owned.
I know a chimaera isn't quite in the same league as a t350, but i was surprised that a standard elise could keep up with me from 0 to about 70-80. Even flooring it from 50 and the elise wasnt noticably slower until we got to illegal speeds. I dont think 0-60 times are the only thing to go on either. Find someone with an elise and try it - i think you will be surprised.
Peter_Ross said: OK I get the message. 2 quick ones.
1. Performance is more than grunt. Point to point matters.
2. I have only ever seen, let alone got to know 3 TVR's in my life.
Sorry 3.
I reckon the Mk I Elise IS drop dead georgeous.
>> Edited by Peter_Ross on Tuesday 4th March 10:09
Point to point is more as much about the driver's ability as that of the car they are in.
Elise IMHO is an airfix kit of a car, that has an air of unfinished quality to it. Fine if you want to drive a car with an engine from Rover (albeit a fine engine at that) and the renowned Lotus suspension/chassis quality, but fact remains that for the same money you can travel as fast and in significantly more comfort.
I can honestly say that having driven Esprits and Elan SE Turbos, TVR offer a completely different driving experience, are quicker and dare I say it more practical...
andyr said: I know a chimaera isn't quite in the same league as a t350, but i was surprised that a standard elise could keep up with me from 0 to about 70-80. Even flooring it from 50 and the elise wasnt noticably slower until we got to illegal speeds. I dont think 0-60 times are the only thing to go on either. Find someone with an elise and try it - i think you will be surprised.
And the 111S is quite a deal quicker than the standard beast, so perhaps it is a good comparison. As to point to point being more about driver ability, it certainly plays a big part. Perhaps that's why there is a reference to the Elist being a 'drivers car', they certainly reward care, accuracy and smooth driving.
I agree with 999 regarding the TVR practicality, but perhaps not on the Airfix nature of the Elise. Spartan, yes, but build quality is actually pretty damn good, and much better on the MkII.
Looks like there are healthy disagreements about performance and that's why there is a good market for both cars. My original point in all this was that with the reports of the T350 handling I think it seems reasonable to compare the cars a bit more closely as they were so very different in focus previously (Grunt vs Handling). The 350 has better handling and the 111s more grunt (albeit a small change in a light chassis).
Vive le difference
Peter_Ross said:
And the 111S is quite a deal quicker than the standard beast, so perhaps it is a good comparison.
It's certainly a good comparison with a 4.0 Chimaera - my mate has a series one 111S and there's nothing between his and mine until three figures, at which point we both backed off anyway.
I sat on the fence in an earlier post, but laying my cards on the table...111S is a great slightly-out-of-the-ordinary car, whereas a 350C is pure exotica.
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