I've got good brakes. Do you have good insurance?
Discussion
I saw the above sticker on a ratty old Vectra this weekend, and it set me wondering...
Is the idea that, after brake-testing someone to the extent that they run into the back of your car, they would be liable for all insurance/costs and you'd walk away scot free reality, or urban myth?
Wouldn't the following driver (if witnesses were available) be able to press charges, along the lines of dangerous driving or whatever else covers intent to cause an accident?
Is the idea that, after brake-testing someone to the extent that they run into the back of your car, they would be liable for all insurance/costs and you'd walk away scot free reality, or urban myth?
Wouldn't the following driver (if witnesses were available) be able to press charges, along the lines of dangerous driving or whatever else covers intent to cause an accident?
In relation to aggressive tailgaters, I reckon one of the best ways to react is not at all. Well, maybe subtly letting the gap to the car in front increase. By reacting visibly, in any way, you're giving the "other idiot" a message that you're willing to modify your driving style based upon their actions, and they'll keep trying until they get what they want. Without a reaction, all but the most blindly persistent will give up after a minute or two. (The GF suggested this might be an effect due to aggressive tailgaters being used to getting a reaction; the lack of one therefore making them uneasy and worried.)
herewego said:
Obviously it's a twist on the old "keep your distance" and as far as I know if you run into the back of someone you are wholly to blame unless they are going backwards.
This is correct. Whilst only a fool would deliberately initiate an accident by "brake-testing" it would still, legally, be 100% the blame of the following driver if they were unable to stop in the distance they can see to be clear on their side of the road. (Paraphrasing the Highway Code's golden rule).
On the "Advanced Driving" forum we have discussed at length strategies for dealing with tailgaters in a careful, smooth and safe manner...
Don said:
[quote=herewego]it would still, legally, be 100% the blame of the following driver if they were unable to stop in the distance they can see to be clear on their side of the road. (Paraphrasing the Highway Code's golden rule).
I would have thought that the driver in front was also guilty of driving without due care and attention, since you would not expect a typical carefull and prudent driver to do an emergency stop for no reason with close following traffic. If you were a police officer and witnessed this, would you consider it highly dangerous and go deal with it or would you just let it go? Proving it might be tricky without witnesses (so easy to come up with some imaginary hazzard that you were trying to avoid) but if proved I hope the book would be thrown good and proper.
GreenV8S said:
since you would not expect a typical carefull and prudent driver to do an emergency stop for no reason
Just because there is no reason doesn't mean you should break the rule of being able to stop in the distance you see to be clear to stop within, what if the driver infront has seen a hazard you have not, and is not actually brake testing you?
The whole point is you should NOT expect a driver NOT to have to stop suddenly. Infact thats probably why most people do go into the back of other drivers, because they don't think there will be a hazard and then suddenly there is.
Yes you shouldn't brake test for no reason to cause an accident, but ultimately you are in the wrong because were there a real hazard you'd have still crashed, your driving style was still clearly dangerous, it was just a matter of time.
Dave
There have been cases where people have gone into the back of someone else who brake tested them.When it went to court the person who brake tested them was found guilty and the other driver claimed off their insurance.
There was something on the radio the other day about people who are doing this for the insurance pay out ie whiplash and people are starting to fight it to prove it was not there fault.
There was something on the radio the other day about people who are doing this for the insurance pay out ie whiplash and people are starting to fight it to prove it was not there fault.
TPS said:
There have been cases where people have gone into the back of someone else who brake tested them.When it went to court the person who brake tested them was found guilty and the other driver claimed off their insurance.
There was something on the radio the other day about people who are doing this for the insurance pay out ie whiplash and people are starting to fight it to prove it was not there fault.
There was something on the radio the other day about people who are doing this for the insurance pay out ie whiplash and people are starting to fight it to prove it was not there fault.
It's all good and well.
BUT, it still proves that in a real emergency (which could just be round the next bend) that you are travelling too close to the car infront.
It's a sad way to be, but now when I'm "in traffic" I just don't bother rushing around or taking any risks any more. Just steady away, large gap, someone overtakes, just lift off or brake gently as they come past to let them get ahead and past quicker...
In the perfect world you shouldn't be caught out in the first place. I know it's easy to say but if your on the ball for a potential hazard in the first place then a silly brake testing driver should be no different... (not saying I'm perfect and do it, but erring towards this ethos leaves you safer, less stressed and happier)
Dave
cuneus said:
Don said:
On the "Advanced Driving" forum we have discussed at length strategies for dealing with tailgaters in a careful, smooth and safe manner...
Linky ?. After last night .. Rover 75 on bumper down a narrow flodded road I need all the help I can get
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=249800&f=154&h=0
The technique of carefully, smoothly and safely making small adjustments to your speed really fecks them up, one minute they are in your boot and they have to brake, next minute they are way behind as you've upped the pace a mile or an hour, so they catch up into your boot when you ease off that gnat;s wossname and so they brake again. Even the most persistent ones seems to get the message that it isn't worth it and drop back.
Flat in Fifth said:
cuneus said:
Don said:
On the "Advanced Driving" forum we have discussed at length strategies for dealing with tailgaters in a careful, smooth and safe manner...
Linky ?. After last night .. Rover 75 on bumper down a narrow flodded road I need all the help I can get
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=249800&f=154&h=0
The technique of carefully, smoothly and safely making small adjustments to your speed really fecks them up, one minute they are in your boot and they have to brake, next minute they are way behind as you've upped the pace a mile or an hour, so they catch up into your boot when you ease off that gnat;s wossname and so they brake again. Even the most persistent ones seems to get the message that it isn't worth it and drop back.
That's exactly why I'm against ISA systems. They take away the art of making those small adjustments to your speed as your average driver is just going to use the accelerator as an on/off switch and rely on the ISA to keep them to the speed limit.
mondeohdear said:
That's exactly why I'm against ISA systems. They take away the art of making those small adjustments to your speed as your average driver is just going to use the accelerator as an on/off switch and rely on the ISA to keep them to the speed limit.
On the plus side, one sharp bend taken well... presto! No more tailgater!
Except, were ISA to be introduced, how long would it be before speed limits were fiddled in such a way that every corner could be taken flat-out regardless of driving style?
GreenV8S said:
Don said:
[quote=herewego]it would still, legally, be 100% the blame of the following driver if they were unable to stop in the distance they can see to be clear on their side of the road. (Paraphrasing the Highway Code's golden rule).
I would have thought that the driver in front was also guilty of driving without due care and attention, since you would not expect a typical carefull and prudent driver to do an emergency stop for no reason with close following traffic. If you were a police officer and witnessed this, would you consider it highly dangerous and go deal with it or would you just let it go? Proving it might be tricky without witnesses (so easy to come up with some imaginary hazzard that you were trying to avoid) but if proved I hope the book would be thrown good and proper.
There are two different liabilities. Civil & criminal.
Brake testing is worse than tailgating & where I witness brake testing, I would be dealing firmly with anyone doing so. It's madness.
Flat in Fifth said:
cuneus said:
Don said:
On the "Advanced Driving" forum we have discussed at length strategies for dealing with tailgaters in a careful, smooth and safe manner...
Linky ?. After last night .. Rover 75 on bumper down a narrow flodded road I need all the help I can get
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=249800&f=154&h=0
The technique of carefully, smoothly and safely making small adjustments to your speed really fecks them up, one minute they are in your boot and they have to brake, next minute they are way behind as you've upped the pace a mile or an hour, so they catch up into your boot when you ease off that gnat;s wossname and so they brake again. Even the most persistent ones seems to get the message that it isn't worth it and drop back.
I read this on here (I think it was Peter who posted it) and tried it a couple of days later - the guy lasted about 2 minutes before he got confused and backed off...
mondeohdear said:
Flat in Fifth said:
cuneus said:
Don said:
On the "Advanced Driving" forum we have discussed at length strategies for dealing with tailgaters in a careful, smooth and safe manner...
Linky ?. After last night .. Rover 75 on bumper down a narrow flodded road I need all the help I can get
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=249800&f=154&h=0
The technique of carefully, smoothly and safely making small adjustments to your speed really fecks them up, one minute they are in your boot and they have to brake, next minute they are way behind as you've upped the pace a mile or an hour, so they catch up into your boot when you ease off that gnat;s wossname and so they brake again. Even the most persistent ones seems to get the message that it isn't worth it and drop back.
That's exactly why I'm against ISA systems. They take away the art of making those small adjustments to your speed as your average driver is just going to use the accelerator as an on/off switch and rely on the ISA to keep them to the speed limit.
ISA wouldn't stop you slowing down then speeding back up again.
Edited by herewego on Wednesday 27th September 19:43
supermono said:
Don said:
On the "Advanced Driving" forum we have discussed at length strategies for dealing with tailgaters in a careful, smooth and safe manner...
Well I'm intrigued by this. Any chance of sharing the gem with a retarded driver like myself?
SM
If someone is driving to close behind you have to add on the distance that they are "too close" to your safe distance. For example if the safe distance is 100m and they are 75m behind you, you have to leave a gap of 125m. This allows you to slow you and the car behind down in the distance you can see.
The alternative is to let the past but you spend more time at the same the road then you will going forward.
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