Pretty bad 997 design / manufacture fault?
Discussion
Well - but a few days into 997 ownership and have what I think is a pretty major gripe with my 04 997 C2.
I'd appreciate your thoughts / advice and also to understand if it affects other cars.
If you look at the top of the front wings where they tuck into the point approaching the underside of the wing mirrors, the wing panel is designed to be a few mm away from the windscreen pillar panels either side - it kind of wraps around them, but doesn't touch...well that's what it's supposed to do and that's what it does on my right hand wing - however I noticed this evening that the left hand wing top (read sharp edge of panel) is tight up against the windscreen pillar panel and has as a result dug itself right through the paint and down to bare metal - it also creates a trap for grit, dust and water if there's no gap.
On my car this has created a small line of what looks like rust already - I guess the sharp panel edge has worn away the galvanising too?
Can others please have a look at their wing tops and see if this is a one off, or a manufacture / tolerance issue?
I'll be contacting the dealer first thing in the morning unfortunately - as I only picked the car up a few days ago and haven't even driven it anywhere yet. I can't see it being easily rectified, so I'm hopoing they're very understanding on this one as I think it's grounds to change the car - I am so angry, upset and disappointed.
Before anyone asks it's DEFINITELY not crash repaired as I spoke with the previous owner and there's no history of anything untoward - it's also certainly the original wings.
I'm speechless and very upset. Any words of advice?
Thanks
I'd appreciate your thoughts / advice and also to understand if it affects other cars.
If you look at the top of the front wings where they tuck into the point approaching the underside of the wing mirrors, the wing panel is designed to be a few mm away from the windscreen pillar panels either side - it kind of wraps around them, but doesn't touch...well that's what it's supposed to do and that's what it does on my right hand wing - however I noticed this evening that the left hand wing top (read sharp edge of panel) is tight up against the windscreen pillar panel and has as a result dug itself right through the paint and down to bare metal - it also creates a trap for grit, dust and water if there's no gap.
On my car this has created a small line of what looks like rust already - I guess the sharp panel edge has worn away the galvanising too?
Can others please have a look at their wing tops and see if this is a one off, or a manufacture / tolerance issue?
I'll be contacting the dealer first thing in the morning unfortunately - as I only picked the car up a few days ago and haven't even driven it anywhere yet. I can't see it being easily rectified, so I'm hopoing they're very understanding on this one as I think it's grounds to change the car - I am so angry, upset and disappointed.
Before anyone asks it's DEFINITELY not crash repaired as I spoke with the previous owner and there's no history of anything untoward - it's also certainly the original wings.
I'm speechless and very upset. Any words of advice?
Thanks
Edited by ragtop on Wednesday 27th September 23:47
Well you probably know that there's a 10 year corrosion guarantee for starters .. It sounds like it's pretty obvious that the crappy tolerance has beared the metal , so the corrosion is bound to follow... This is at least one line you can take ... Sorry to hear you've been so disappointed.
Unfortunately it's a fact of life that cars do get damaged whilst at the dealers awaiting PDI/ collection or servicing. (I know, I've seen it happen at the eleventh hour and then had to repair them !) Previous owner could think his P&J has never been damaged ..............his supplying or servicing dealer may know differently...............
) that they can sort this one out.Thanks Finn - is there a nice neat gap between the top of yours and the windscreen pillar - ie if you push the wing top can it flex a little and not touch the pillar?
That's what my RHS one is like and I suspect exactly how it's meant to be.
Will let you know what the OPC say - like I say, they have been excellent thus far, so fingers x-ed.
cheers
That's what my RHS one is like and I suspect exactly how it's meant to be.
Will let you know what the OPC say - like I say, they have been excellent thus far, so fingers x-ed.
cheers
Edited by ragtop on Thursday 28th September 09:31
Edited by ragtop on Thursday 28th September 09:31
slippydiff said:
Unfortunately it's a fact of life that cars do get damaged whilst at the dealers awaiting PDI/ collection or servicing. (I know, I've seen it happen at the eleventh hour and then had to repair them !) Previous owner could think his P&J has never been damaged ..............his supplying or servicing dealer may know differently...............
I'm sure that's the case. There are many brand new cars setting off from showrooms with filler somewhere in the panels.
ragtop said:
Thanks Finn - is there a nice neat gap between the top of yours and the windscreen pillar - ie if you push the wing top can it flex a little and not touch the pillar?
That's what my RHS one is like and I suspect exactly how it's meant to be.
Will let you know what the OPC say - like I say, they have been excellent thus far, so fingers x-ed.
cheers
That's what my RHS one is like and I suspect exactly how it's meant to be.
Will let you know what the OPC say - like I say, they have been excellent thus far, so fingers x-ed.
cheers
Edited by ragtop on Thursday 28th September 09:31
Edited by ragtop on Thursday 28th September 09:31
Yes - nice neat gap on both sides. A mate of mine runs a 997 as well and he checked his - same story.
Sounds like something has happened to your car or just a bad fitting (the actual panel fixtures could've cracked/flexed).
This is something that an OPC should get fixed immediately with no questions asked. Had a few minor niggles (when I got mine the horn wasn't working) and they sorted them out immediately with a nice courtesy car and a free pair of tickets to the Carrera Cup as a goodwill gesture.
Any problems, get on to the Dealer Principal. I'm London based and have good relationships with both OPC Chiswick and OPC Mayfair - by chance if you're dealing with either of these and have any hassles, let me know and I can send you contact details for both Dealer Principals.
Thanks Finn. I'm keen to change the car if I'm honest.
I just know that this sort of thing will never be right once we get into resprays, wing refitting / door adjustment etc etc.. Certainly not in my mind anyway.
As posted above it's ruined the experience, despite being a visually small problem.
Am waiting for the dealer to call back, but as I say they have been very good thus far, so don't expect too much push back on my request to swap the car.
regards
I just know that this sort of thing will never be right once we get into resprays, wing refitting / door adjustment etc etc.. Certainly not in my mind anyway.
As posted above it's ruined the experience, despite being a visually small problem.
Am waiting for the dealer to call back, but as I say they have been very good thus far, so don't expect too much push back on my request to swap the car.
regards
Ragtop. Just a word of warning.
Swapping cars is a major thing both for you and the dealer. Assuming you've bought a pre-used car, its unlikely you'll find an identical spec at the same price, etc. For the dealer, having gone through the whole registration process, financing (if any), etc etc its also a major pain.
I very much suspect they will firstly offer to inspect and repair any damage to the car. Thinking more about it I have to agree with Los Angeles that it sounds like your car has had some form of minor ding in the past. If you haven't owned a 997 before you'll find that the front is actually surprisingly long and a lot of new owners end up hitting the front when parking for the first few times. This wouldn't show any damage but could crack the panel fixtures resulting in the front panels shifting slightly over time. I'd suspect this may be the case as an OPC wouldn't necessarily pick it up.
Sorry to hear your situation. Let us know what happens and if we can help in any way.
Swapping cars is a major thing both for you and the dealer. Assuming you've bought a pre-used car, its unlikely you'll find an identical spec at the same price, etc. For the dealer, having gone through the whole registration process, financing (if any), etc etc its also a major pain.
I very much suspect they will firstly offer to inspect and repair any damage to the car. Thinking more about it I have to agree with Los Angeles that it sounds like your car has had some form of minor ding in the past. If you haven't owned a 997 before you'll find that the front is actually surprisingly long and a lot of new owners end up hitting the front when parking for the first few times. This wouldn't show any damage but could crack the panel fixtures resulting in the front panels shifting slightly over time. I'd suspect this may be the case as an OPC wouldn't necessarily pick it up.
Sorry to hear your situation. Let us know what happens and if we can help in any way.
will post some pics this morning when I get the digi camera out.
In terms of repairs I am 100% certain this car hasn't been pranged. The wing is bolted along it's top length in several places - these can;t really shift or crack.
Also - the door is perfectly aligned with the mis-aligned wing and has not been rehung or moved (you can tell by the bolts / door hangers having the orginal paint).
This has definitely left the factory like this.
Re the swap - I know it will be a pain, but I am not having a 60k repaired car on my drive through a manufacturing fault - it's just not acceptable.
In terms of repairs I am 100% certain this car hasn't been pranged. The wing is bolted along it's top length in several places - these can;t really shift or crack.
Also - the door is perfectly aligned with the mis-aligned wing and has not been rehung or moved (you can tell by the bolts / door hangers having the orginal paint).
This has definitely left the factory like this.
Re the swap - I know it will be a pain, but I am not having a 60k repaired car on my drive through a manufacturing fault - it's just not acceptable.
Edited by ragtop on Thursday 28th September 12:48
Some pics would be great to see.
May be the case that its a manufacturing fault in which case its a poor effort by Porsche themselves (I would've thought they check all shutlines etc prior to the car leaving the factory). I'm on my second 997 currently and a couple of mates run 997s as well - never had any quality issues on any of them or heard of anything similar.
In any case, don't settle for damaged goods and make sure you get what you're asking for from Porsche. Just don't let it put you off Porsche ownership - trust me, they are worth it..
May be the case that its a manufacturing fault in which case its a poor effort by Porsche themselves (I would've thought they check all shutlines etc prior to the car leaving the factory). I'm on my second 997 currently and a couple of mates run 997s as well - never had any quality issues on any of them or heard of anything similar.
In any case, don't settle for damaged goods and make sure you get what you're asking for from Porsche. Just don't let it put you off Porsche ownership - trust me, they are worth it..
right - photos as requested.
As you will appreciate it's difficult to photo, but I'm sure you'll get the jist.
Here's both wing tops - you can notice that the left hand wing top is tighter into the body.
then heres the view of the lefthand one closer - the area that has been chaffing:
then, pulling back the wing slightly - here's an attempt to photo where it's gone thorugh to the metal and left a thin rust line.
As you will appreciate it's difficult to photo, but I'm sure you'll get the jist.
Here's both wing tops - you can notice that the left hand wing top is tighter into the body.
then heres the view of the lefthand one closer - the area that has been chaffing:
then, pulling back the wing slightly - here's an attempt to photo where it's gone thorugh to the metal and left a thin rust line.
Edited by ragtop on Thursday 28th September 12:45
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