Sage book keeping courses...
Discussion
As per title. Not for me but for my mother. She's recently retired early from her teaching job because of all the stress and red tape.
Now she's looking into doing a bit of part time work and having completed a few computer courses in the past, is interested in a Sage book keeping one.
She had a chap around today from one of those 'home learning' companies but they wanted a grand which I thought was extortionate!!!
My question is, has anyone any experience with these courses? any recommendations for paricular companies? Amongst small employers, are book keeping courses recognised or is experience more valued?
Many thanks
Rich.
Now she's looking into doing a bit of part time work and having completed a few computer courses in the past, is interested in a Sage book keeping one.
She had a chap around today from one of those 'home learning' companies but they wanted a grand which I thought was extortionate!!!
My question is, has anyone any experience with these courses? any recommendations for paricular companies? Amongst small employers, are book keeping courses recognised or is experience more valued?
Many thanks
Rich.
I'd contact Sage themselves as they have a list of accredited course suppliers and even run some themselves.
I'd also look into courses on Quickbooks as that is fast becoming a popular alternative to Sage (which is overly complicated at times and can be quite expensive).
I'd also look into courses on Quickbooks as that is fast becoming a popular alternative to Sage (which is overly complicated at times and can be quite expensive).
Edited by Eric Mc on Saturday 30th September 12:03
That said, even if she does the course then I don't think ahe'll walk into a job with no experience & a sage course behind her. A good bookkeeper needs some accountancy knowledge which is best learned through experience. The pay isn't going to be great either!
Maybe she would be better looking for a trainee/assistant type position with a firm who would assist in training her?
Maybe she would be better looking for a trainee/assistant type position with a firm who would assist in training her?
She should bear in mind Sage and accounting/book keeping is an entirely different ball game from teaching and IT in general. Not wanting to be downhearted about her enthusiasm but it really is a different world.
What really gets my goat is going into a firm with their new 'book keeper' who, after using Sage for five minutes and possibly having attended a 2 day course, thinks they can produce the company accounts and take over the taxation affairs, the lot..when it's also the experience and practical knowledge that counts and is, IMHO, more important. I then have to spend the best part of my time there doing manual corrections before I can get to the work I intended to do in the first place.
What I'd recommend, as a starting point for her is AAT which is a vocational qualification she could study to learn the basics of accounting - from a personal POV, that would be more valuable to me as a prospective employer than knowing how to use a software package but not really understanding the values behind it.
If she were to go for a Sage course, then I'd recommend the Instant package (if there is a specific course for that I don't know?). And as EricMc said, Quickbooks is becoming more popular, may be worth a look into.
Best of luck to her, HTH.
What really gets my goat is going into a firm with their new 'book keeper' who, after using Sage for five minutes and possibly having attended a 2 day course, thinks they can produce the company accounts and take over the taxation affairs, the lot..when it's also the experience and practical knowledge that counts and is, IMHO, more important. I then have to spend the best part of my time there doing manual corrections before I can get to the work I intended to do in the first place.
What I'd recommend, as a starting point for her is AAT which is a vocational qualification she could study to learn the basics of accounting - from a personal POV, that would be more valuable to me as a prospective employer than knowing how to use a software package but not really understanding the values behind it.
If she were to go for a Sage course, then I'd recommend the Instant package (if there is a specific course for that I don't know?). And as EricMc said, Quickbooks is becoming more popular, may be worth a look into.
Best of luck to her, HTH.
[quote=MissPHit]
What I'd recommend, as a starting point for her is AAT which is a vocational qualification she could study to learn the basics of accounting - from a personal POV, that would be more valuable to me as a prospective employer than knowing how to use a software package but not really understanding the values behind it.
[quote]
I'd probably take the 100% opposite view. Employers look for experience in the specific package they use, rather than a generalised thingy. AAT is often viewed as neither fish nor fowl. (and is relatively rare to find)
What I'd recommend, as a starting point for her is AAT which is a vocational qualification she could study to learn the basics of accounting - from a personal POV, that would be more valuable to me as a prospective employer than knowing how to use a software package but not really understanding the values behind it.
[quote]
I'd probably take the 100% opposite view. Employers look for experience in the specific package they use, rather than a generalised thingy. AAT is often viewed as neither fish nor fowl. (and is relatively rare to find)
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
[quote=MissPHit]
What I'd recommend, as a starting point for her is AAT which is a vocational qualification she could study to learn the basics of accounting - from a personal POV, that would be more valuable to me as a prospective employer than knowing how to use a software package but not really understanding the values behind it.
[quote]
I'd probably take the 100% opposite view. Employers look for experience in the specific package they use, rather than a generalised thingy. AAT is often viewed as neither fish nor fowl. (and is relatively rare to find)
What I'd recommend, as a starting point for her is AAT which is a vocational qualification she could study to learn the basics of accounting - from a personal POV, that would be more valuable to me as a prospective employer than knowing how to use a software package but not really understanding the values behind it.
[quote]
I'd probably take the 100% opposite view. Employers look for experience in the specific package they use, rather than a generalised thingy. AAT is often viewed as neither fish nor fowl. (and is relatively rare to find)
@ 'generalised thingy'.... (off topic, just made me laugh) BTT though - ok, that's fair enough, opinion is opinion and opposing views make for good discussion. What experience do you have of this kind of thing? And what industry/sector do you work in? Are you an accountant?
FD huh? Hmm, interesting to hear your POV then.
I do understand your view that employers look for experience of a particular software package, and it is something I have come across in my own experiences. My point is thus however(illustrated with example) :
Person A goes on a Sage course and learns how to use the package to a certain degree. They have no experience of accounting/book keeping. They are IT literate.
Person B has never used Sage in their entire life, however has X amount years experience of bookeeping. They are IT literate.
Person C has, lets say, an AAT qualification. No experience of Sage. IT literate. Minimal work experience.
I would elect them in this order: Person B, Person C, Person A.
If you were running a small business, and wanted a book keeper, which one would you be tempted to favour to employ? The reason I suggested the AAT before was because it would at least give them an understanding of the principles of accounting, which for me as an employer would be paramount if I were to employ somebody to do my book keeping and/or run my Sage system (OK, this is spoken from an Accountant's POV btw). I used AAT as an arbitrary example. It could be A level/GCSE accounting for all I care, just an understanding of the basics. What's the use of letting somebody loose on Sage when they're going to come back to me every five minutes asking me the following:
'This invoice is 1 pence out. What do I do?'
'What's the Tax code for flowers from Holland?'
'What's a nominal ledger?'
'I have a credit note from so-and-so. Can I just minus it from the next bill they send us and leave it off the system?'
'Why do you tell me it's wrong when I post the boss's wages under the wages code' etc etc etc.
Hence my choice in this order: B - and send them on a Sage training course
C - and send them on a Sage course
A - Spend weeks answering questions I probably wouldn't need to if they had either B or C's qualifications/experience.
My 2p
Spoken as an accountant. I do agree though that employers in general, who maybe do not have such an understanding of accounting, would think they want somebody who is package-literate. After all, the software package does everything for you doesn't it? 
I do understand your view that employers look for experience of a particular software package, and it is something I have come across in my own experiences. My point is thus however(illustrated with example) :
Person A goes on a Sage course and learns how to use the package to a certain degree. They have no experience of accounting/book keeping. They are IT literate.
Person B has never used Sage in their entire life, however has X amount years experience of bookeeping. They are IT literate.
Person C has, lets say, an AAT qualification. No experience of Sage. IT literate. Minimal work experience.
I would elect them in this order: Person B, Person C, Person A.
If you were running a small business, and wanted a book keeper, which one would you be tempted to favour to employ? The reason I suggested the AAT before was because it would at least give them an understanding of the principles of accounting, which for me as an employer would be paramount if I were to employ somebody to do my book keeping and/or run my Sage system (OK, this is spoken from an Accountant's POV btw). I used AAT as an arbitrary example. It could be A level/GCSE accounting for all I care, just an understanding of the basics. What's the use of letting somebody loose on Sage when they're going to come back to me every five minutes asking me the following:
'This invoice is 1 pence out. What do I do?'
'What's the Tax code for flowers from Holland?'
'What's a nominal ledger?'
'I have a credit note from so-and-so. Can I just minus it from the next bill they send us and leave it off the system?'
'Why do you tell me it's wrong when I post the boss's wages under the wages code' etc etc etc.
Hence my choice in this order: B - and send them on a Sage training course
C - and send them on a Sage course
A - Spend weeks answering questions I probably wouldn't need to if they had either B or C's qualifications/experience.
My 2p
Spoken as an accountant. I do agree though that employers in general, who maybe do not have such an understanding of accounting, would think they want somebody who is package-literate. After all, the software package does everything for you doesn't it? Cheers for the replies people. Having just done an accounting degree myself I'm aware that my mother may have to do much more than a part time course. I think for the time being though she's going to do a more general book keeping evening class for the social side as much as the learning/future job side...
I agree with MissPHit... some very good points made, and would add that if you know the principles of double entry bookeeping then learning Sage will be easy, as its double entry mechanism follows the simple 'T' accounts concept.
Always amazes me when I hear the arguments for Sage or Quickbooks or whoever, i.e. this is easier than that, and you don't need any previous bookeeping knowlwedge, and this is cheaper etc... when at the end of the day it's really down to what you know, and if you don't know then how easy is it to find a training course... and just as importantly what accounting products your accountant is familiar with.
Always amazes me when I hear the arguments for Sage or Quickbooks or whoever, i.e. this is easier than that, and you don't need any previous bookeeping knowlwedge, and this is cheaper etc... when at the end of the day it's really down to what you know, and if you don't know then how easy is it to find a training course... and just as importantly what accounting products your accountant is familiar with.
(late-comer to this one!)
Just wanted to point out that students doing the NVQ route through AAT *do* get taught the basics in sage - as I'm doing so now.
I don't think it's a fantastic course in itself, but it's teaching me the basics, and as accounting isn't the way I'd like to go (work are paying for me, and I do "use" accounts / annual returns on a regular basis) I thought I'd do AAT as it looks nice on a CV.
Just wanted to point out that students doing the NVQ route through AAT *do* get taught the basics in sage - as I'm doing so now.
I don't think it's a fantastic course in itself, but it's teaching me the basics, and as accounting isn't the way I'd like to go (work are paying for me, and I do "use" accounts / annual returns on a regular basis) I thought I'd do AAT as it looks nice on a CV.
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