Why do unused TVRs fail?????
Discussion
Can anyone put any meat on the bones of the theory that little used Chimaeras seem to go wrong a lot and well used ones do not. What exactly goes wrong? I don't get it. If ANY machine is well maintained why should inactivity cause it to fail? I fully understand about batteries draining, but other than that.....???????
nickrudd said:
well maintained
Nail...head. But that includes regular use of moving components, ensuring seals remain lubricated etc etc...rubber perishes, surface rust on shocks etc may then become an abrasive that a seal travels across, damaging the surface of it etc etc Case in point, my Tuscan...daily driver = no problems, now an occasional driver and I leave a small pool of clutch fluid behind everytime I stop for more than a couple of hours!
Some meat in the form of past experience:
It's not something special to TVRs. In fact it probably happens with all cars. In particular failing to keep rubber supple through warming and flexing (i.e. use), failure to clean metal surfaces of rust (i.e. use), recharging batteries (i.e. use), etc.
I had a Clio 1.2 that struggled when it was used only occasionally with all these sort of symptoms manifesting in problems not unlike those reported for unused TVRs.
I guess in most cases "lack of use" for a sports car implies much lower use than for an "normal" car.
It's not something special to TVRs. In fact it probably happens with all cars. In particular failing to keep rubber supple through warming and flexing (i.e. use), failure to clean metal surfaces of rust (i.e. use), recharging batteries (i.e. use), etc.
I had a Clio 1.2 that struggled when it was used only occasionally with all these sort of symptoms manifesting in problems not unlike those reported for unused TVRs.
I guess in most cases "lack of use" for a sports car implies much lower use than for an "normal" car.
tonyf said:
Mine must be an exception to the rule then, 98 chimaera 450 and shes only covered 9k miles from new
richb said:
Ditto - 1999 Griff 500, had it since new, properly maintained and serviced annually and I do on average 3,000 miles each year. Currently 21,000 miles in total and works like a dream!
Yes well not a problem to you yet but likely to be a developing problem to you or the next owner in the future. Your cars aren't old enough yet. There is no proof to support this belief but a common reason that TVR's have low mileage is because owners take their cars off the road for Winter. Many people do six months SORN then six months RFL. Six months is way too long to leave a TVR, this is probably the worst contributor to this belief.
Not quite sure what you're getting at there Bob? I certainly use mine all year round so there's no lay-up as such. Obviously as and when rubbers and hoses need replacing, I'll do that and It's on its 3rd batteries in 7 years but otherwise it's as sound as a bell and always reliable.
Perhaps low-mileage often means "low-mileage & neglected" rather than "low mileage and treasured."
Perhaps low-mileage often means "low-mileage & neglected" rather than "low mileage and treasured."
Edited by richb on Monday 2nd October 15:46
richb said:
Not quite sure what you're getting at there Bob?
I used to restore classic sports cars and I found a strong link between extreme low mileage and poor body, electrics and mechanicals. I often had more to repair on a 25yr old car with <10k miles than a 25yr old with >100k miles. I used to store cars for long periods, 6+ months at a time. I found that these cars deteriorated significantly more in storage than classics I kept on the road. I did store on ramps with petrol drained and humidity controlled but that didn't stop the rot. It's simply my experience, others may have their own opinions.
I have had my Chimaera 5C 12 years from new and don't use it all winter and once did only 1k in a year. I ived near Blackpool and so not far from the sea too!! So far its clocked 37k and I have only slight surface rust in the usual areas. Not had a problem with low mileage so far and all original. Here's my recipe:
* Even when it was on SORN I always ran the engine until the fans had kicked in and also moved the car about on the driveway. i did this every 2 to 3 weeks to avoid flat spots on the tyres and keep the lube were it should be.
* Keep the battery topped up with a quality charger, avoid 'boost' charges for a low battery.
* Leave the windows slightly open if leaving the roof on.
* I once had to keep it in a v.damp garage and so I installed DIY heaters and humidity stat underneath the car under a car cover. No damp problem thankfully and didn't cost much to run.
* I often leave the roof off and the rear roof stays only partially tentioned.
* I use a block of wood and not the handbrake when the car is in the garage.
* I Waxoyled the chassis 3 times in the first few years of ownership and still top up now and then.
* Avoid at all costs salted roads. Wash down chassis and dry off afterwards if accidently driven on salted road
* Avoid the rain and if parked up after a wet day then take it it for spin on first available dry day.
* Use a breathable soft cover, ie not waterproofed, for indoor use, unless you need and can afford a Gortex one. Stiff covers in and an outdoor location can cause scuffing due to wind and abrasion.
* Feed the leather a couple of times a year, more if its been hot and sunny. I use autoglym leather feed.
* Give it a regular good quality polish. I have always used autoglym and the car is often mistaken for new. Obviously not by TVR anoraks
Paintwork is as good as new apart from a few sratches.
* I also regulary use rubber and vinyl cleaners, enhancers; you guessed it Autoglym again. They seem to work.
* Now my car is in a hot sunny climate (1 year in Austria) I use a Leven tonneau cover to keep the sun off when parked for long periods. Looks good with this hood and avoids paint scuffing as mentioned above.
* Never use any product other than plain water and a chamois on the rear window. Not even soap or detergent. Mine has not clouded or yellowed in 12 years, it has scratched though near the rear stays.
* Try to avoid creases in the window when folding the hood especially when cold.
* Always hose down the body work before soaping up. I use Turtle wax. Wash top down and repeatedly rinse the sponge to avoid trapped grit scouring the paintwork. Finally chamois dry.
edited to add a bit more and fix the usual pore grimmer and spealing
I might have a few more simple tips for TVR long term health if I can remember them.
* Even when it was on SORN I always ran the engine until the fans had kicked in and also moved the car about on the driveway. i did this every 2 to 3 weeks to avoid flat spots on the tyres and keep the lube were it should be.
* Keep the battery topped up with a quality charger, avoid 'boost' charges for a low battery.
* Leave the windows slightly open if leaving the roof on.
* I once had to keep it in a v.damp garage and so I installed DIY heaters and humidity stat underneath the car under a car cover. No damp problem thankfully and didn't cost much to run.
* I often leave the roof off and the rear roof stays only partially tentioned.
* I use a block of wood and not the handbrake when the car is in the garage.
* I Waxoyled the chassis 3 times in the first few years of ownership and still top up now and then.
* Avoid at all costs salted roads. Wash down chassis and dry off afterwards if accidently driven on salted road
* Avoid the rain and if parked up after a wet day then take it it for spin on first available dry day.
* Use a breathable soft cover, ie not waterproofed, for indoor use, unless you need and can afford a Gortex one. Stiff covers in and an outdoor location can cause scuffing due to wind and abrasion.
* Feed the leather a couple of times a year, more if its been hot and sunny. I use autoglym leather feed.
* Give it a regular good quality polish. I have always used autoglym and the car is often mistaken for new. Obviously not by TVR anoraks
Paintwork is as good as new apart from a few sratches. * I also regulary use rubber and vinyl cleaners, enhancers; you guessed it Autoglym again. They seem to work.
* Now my car is in a hot sunny climate (1 year in Austria) I use a Leven tonneau cover to keep the sun off when parked for long periods. Looks good with this hood and avoids paint scuffing as mentioned above.
* Never use any product other than plain water and a chamois on the rear window. Not even soap or detergent. Mine has not clouded or yellowed in 12 years, it has scratched though near the rear stays.
* Try to avoid creases in the window when folding the hood especially when cold.
* Always hose down the body work before soaping up. I use Turtle wax. Wash top down and repeatedly rinse the sponge to avoid trapped grit scouring the paintwork. Finally chamois dry.
edited to add a bit more and fix the usual pore grimmer and spealing
I might have a few more simple tips for TVR long term health if I can remember them.
Edited by m4rk on Monday 2nd October 22:38
m4rk said:
I have had my Chimaera 5C 12 years from new and don't use it all winter and once did only 1k in a year. So far its clocked 37k and I have only slight surface rust in the usual areas. Not had a problem with low mileage so far and all original. Here's my recipe:
* Even when it was on SORN I always ran the engine until the fans had kicked in and moved the car about on the driveway every 2 to 3 weeks to avoid flat spots on the tyres.
* Keep the battery topped up with a quality charger, avoid 'boost' charges for a low battery.
* Leave the windows slightly open if leaving the roof on.
* I once had to keep it in a v.damp garage and so I installed DIY heaters and humidity stat underneath the car under a car cover. No damp problem thankfully and didn't cost much to run.
* I often leave the roof off and the rear roof stays only partially tentioned.
* I use a block of wood and not the handbrake when the car is in the garage.
* Waxoyl the chassis 3 times in the first few years of ownership and still top up now and then.
* Avoid at all costs salted roads. Wash down chassis and dry off afterwards if accidently driven on salted road
* Avoid the rain and if parked up after a wet day then take it it for spin on first available dry day.
* Use a breathable soft cover, ie not waterproofed for indoor use, unless you need and can afford a Gortex one. Stiff covers in and outdoor location can cause scuffing due to wind and abrasion.
* Feed the leather a couple of times a year, more its been hot and sunny. I use autoglym leather feed.
* Regular good quality polish. I have always used autoglym and the car is often mistaken for new. Obviusly not by TVR anoraks
* Now my car is in a hot sunny climate (1 year in Austria) I use a Leven tonneau cover to keep the sun off when parked for long periods. Looks good with this hood and avoids paint scuffing as mentioned above.
* Never use any product other than plain water and a chamois on the rear window. Not even soap or detergent. Mine has not clouded or yellowed in 12 years, it has scratched though near the rear stays.
* Try to avoid creases in the window when folding the hood especially when cold.
I might have a few more simple tips for TVR long term health if I can remember them.
* Even when it was on SORN I always ran the engine until the fans had kicked in and moved the car about on the driveway every 2 to 3 weeks to avoid flat spots on the tyres.
* Keep the battery topped up with a quality charger, avoid 'boost' charges for a low battery.
* Leave the windows slightly open if leaving the roof on.
* I once had to keep it in a v.damp garage and so I installed DIY heaters and humidity stat underneath the car under a car cover. No damp problem thankfully and didn't cost much to run.
* I often leave the roof off and the rear roof stays only partially tentioned.
* I use a block of wood and not the handbrake when the car is in the garage.
* Waxoyl the chassis 3 times in the first few years of ownership and still top up now and then.
* Avoid at all costs salted roads. Wash down chassis and dry off afterwards if accidently driven on salted road
* Avoid the rain and if parked up after a wet day then take it it for spin on first available dry day.
* Use a breathable soft cover, ie not waterproofed for indoor use, unless you need and can afford a Gortex one. Stiff covers in and outdoor location can cause scuffing due to wind and abrasion.
* Feed the leather a couple of times a year, more its been hot and sunny. I use autoglym leather feed.
* Regular good quality polish. I have always used autoglym and the car is often mistaken for new. Obviusly not by TVR anoraks
* Now my car is in a hot sunny climate (1 year in Austria) I use a Leven tonneau cover to keep the sun off when parked for long periods. Looks good with this hood and avoids paint scuffing as mentioned above.
* Never use any product other than plain water and a chamois on the rear window. Not even soap or detergent. Mine has not clouded or yellowed in 12 years, it has scratched though near the rear stays.
* Try to avoid creases in the window when folding the hood especially when cold.
I might have a few more simple tips for TVR long term health if I can remember them.
Jesus 36k in 12 years ...you really need to get out more ..don't bother with the simple tips I've heard enough already
Well I admit it's low mileage but I've had fun with it and still do. Mostly posing, cruising, no track days though. Been to LeMans three times and toured Europe twice and often went for a spin in the Lakes. If it rained then I took my other motor. I guess it rained a lot
Edited by m4rk on Monday 2nd October 22:46
m4rk said:
* Keep the battery topped up with a quality charger, avoid 'boost' charges for a low battery.
Doing this changed my Trev overnight from being somewhat temperamental to wholly reliable. He's not used that often but *touch wood* I haven't experienced any problems since. M4rk, if you treat ladies the way you lovingly take care of your car, then you're on to a sure fire winner!
Edited by cossie. on Tuesday 3rd October 09:55
cossie. said:
M4rk, if you treat ladies the way you lovingly take care of your car, then you're on to a sure fire winner!
Edited by cossie. on Tuesday 3rd October 09:55
..clearly I'm doomed on the woman front then, the Tiv has sat in the garden for most of the summer and only got used for a fortnight this year 
richb said:
tonyf said:
Mine must be an exception to the rule then...
Ditto - 1999 Griff 500, had it since new, properly maintained and serviced annually and I do on average 3,000 miles each year. Currently 21,000 miles in total and works like a dream!As long as there used regularly then low miles is by far the better option.I can do an 8 mile round trip in mine each week,when not in normal use,and this gets everything working and up to normal temps,but hardly puts miles on the clock!Use them once a week minimum,all year round imho
Sorry - but even if an eight mile round trip each week is better than nothing, under normal circumstances it won't likely be enough for the engine and transmission/diff oils to have fully warmed up yet, i.e. there will still be moisture in it.
The other thing to consider is, that a cold start causes more wear to the engine than the twenty subsequent miles, and the twenty milesyou do after that do even less 'harm'. The ratinoale behind buying a relatively new car with high miles, therefore, lies in the assumption that you normally don't do 40,000 miles a year with only short trips. The car that's only clocked 4,000 miles in the same period is far more likely to have accumulated those with only 2 mile trips to Tesco's - you pay a premium on the used car makret for the low mileage, but in reality the second car will have worn as much or more as the high miler.
The other thing to consider is, that a cold start causes more wear to the engine than the twenty subsequent miles, and the twenty milesyou do after that do even less 'harm'. The ratinoale behind buying a relatively new car with high miles, therefore, lies in the assumption that you normally don't do 40,000 miles a year with only short trips. The car that's only clocked 4,000 miles in the same period is far more likely to have accumulated those with only 2 mile trips to Tesco's - you pay a premium on the used car makret for the low mileage, but in reality the second car will have worn as much or more as the high miler.
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