Private car park parking ticket
Discussion
A friend of mine's car broke down, wouldn't start up after parking in a private car park. She had to leave it there (well she could have had it towed but her mechanic dad lives a mile away from the car park and she decided to leave it there for him to collect tomorrow).
Anyhow, a few hours later and we go and check on the car, and its got a ticket on it. Not many details, not even a 'pay £x now please'. Car park is run by Euro Car Parks. I don't think theres a machine, I'll check but I think its just a '2 hours max parking' type deal.
I doubt that the fact her car was broken down would have any bearing on the validity of the ticket, so is she best paying it, or just ignoring it? I understand these things are rarely pursued.
The car has now been removed btw, we managed to get it started up.
Anyhow, a few hours later and we go and check on the car, and its got a ticket on it. Not many details, not even a 'pay £x now please'. Car park is run by Euro Car Parks. I don't think theres a machine, I'll check but I think its just a '2 hours max parking' type deal.
I doubt that the fact her car was broken down would have any bearing on the validity of the ticket, so is she best paying it, or just ignoring it? I understand these things are rarely pursued.
The car has now been removed btw, we managed to get it started up.
What were the posted conditions of the car park? (ie does it definitely state that parking is limited to 2 hours, any longer and you're liable to BRVJ of £xx?)
Morally I think you know the answer already...but there's nothing wrong with the owner of the car writing a letter stating that the car had broken down, espescially if they left a note on the car to that effect. (Did they?)
Is it parking for a shop? Contact them, see what they say if it is.
Morally I think you know the answer already...but there's nothing wrong with the owner of the car writing a letter stating that the car had broken down, espescially if they left a note on the car to that effect. (Did they?)
Is it parking for a shop? Contact them, see what they say if it is.
Private tickets must be persued by civil action, and as you wrote, they rarely are.
There's a famous case in Reading (I've posted on here a few times before) where the approach to the station dropoff /short-term carpark is on private land. The owners of this land have let a bunch of gorillas run riot, but I understand no one has been successfully persued for cash
There's a famous case in Reading (I've posted on here a few times before) where the approach to the station dropoff /short-term carpark is on private land. The owners of this land have let a bunch of gorillas run riot, but I understand no one has been successfully persued for cash
bigdods said:
hmmm - leave a note on the car saying its broken down. Open invitation to the local scrotes to break in then...
As opposed to parking in a public car park and going shopping for an hour or two? If a car is broken down it means the person coming to sort it is probably : -
1) larger than your average 15 year old scrote
2) carrying a large number of blunt metal objects
3) quite possibly a friend or relative of the owner
Paying for an all-day ticket is more of an invite, don't you think?
puggit said:
Private tickets must be persued by civil action, and as you wrote, they rarely are.
There's a famous case in Reading (I've posted on here a few times before) where the approach to the station dropoff /short-term carpark is on private land. The owners of this land have let a bunch of gorillas run riot, but I understand no one has been successfully persued for cash
There's a famous case in Reading (I've posted on here a few times before) where the approach to the station dropoff /short-term carpark is on private land. The owners of this land have let a bunch of gorillas run riot, but I understand no one has been successfully persued for cash
They now have 2 tow trucks as well. They'll remove your car if it's left for more than a couple of minutes and put it in Apex Plaza. You'll also get a ticket just for stopping there. IIRC they kicked this off when Apex Plaza was in the doldrums ( ie emptyish ) as a way of making some extra £
Parrot of Doom said:
This is the sign on the car park:
The ticket is similarly vague. When I see her I'll try and get a copy.
The ticket is similarly vague. When I see her I'll try and get a copy.
Em - I must be missing something, but I can't see anything vague about that sign - it says "don't park here for more than 2 hours, or it'll cost you £50".
I don't think that they would have to print all those conditions on the ticket - the sign is clear enough.
Only hope would be to appeal to their better nature and explain that car had broken down, with note in screen. I suspect that won't be very successful.
They have the land or contract to manage.
They put up signs clearly indicating the terms they will permit parking and the penalty if exceeded.
You go onto that land and park you have accepted their terms.
Enter the penalty zone and they can invoke the charge.
Game,set and match to them if you breach the terms. There does not seem to be an avenue at law to contest to an adjudicator.
I presume they County Court for the money like a LA PCN. The question is are they prepared to do it. The evidence is coming out that they are because the size of these organisations that are managing.
dvd
They put up signs clearly indicating the terms they will permit parking and the penalty if exceeded.
You go onto that land and park you have accepted their terms.
Enter the penalty zone and they can invoke the charge.
Game,set and match to them if you breach the terms. There does not seem to be an avenue at law to contest to an adjudicator.
I presume they County Court for the money like a LA PCN. The question is are they prepared to do it. The evidence is coming out that they are because the size of these organisations that are managing.
dvd
Do not ignore the ticket.
Write back to them pointing out that their "contact" is with the driver of the vehicle and not with yourself as the registered keeper and that you dispute their claim that you owe them any money.
You do NOT have to tell them who the driver is / was.
Goto www.pepipoo.com for mor info.
Sean
Write back to them pointing out that their "contact" is with the driver of the vehicle and not with yourself as the registered keeper and that you dispute their claim that you owe them any money.
You do NOT have to tell them who the driver is / was.
Goto www.pepipoo.com for mor info.
Sean
NugentS said:
Do not ignore the ticket.
Write back to them pointing out that their "contact" is with the driver of the vehicle and not with yourself as the registered keeper and that you dispute their claim that you owe them any money.
You do NOT have to tell them who the driver is / was.
Goto www.pepipoo.com for mor info.
Sean
Write back to them pointing out that their "contact" is with the driver of the vehicle and not with yourself as the registered keeper and that you dispute their claim that you owe them any money.
You do NOT have to tell them who the driver is / was.
Goto www.pepipoo.com for mor info.
Sean
That is exactly right. I cannot name the exact subsection of UK Contract Law off the top of my head but you cannot be held to account by form of a contract that you were never party to.
If you stick to your guns they are legally stuck. You are under no obligation to tell them who the driver is, you just need to tell them it wasnt you. *Eventually* they know that they will have to prove who the driver is in court. If it gets that far you can explain your innocent as a witness, and they will have no witnesses to say otherwise, and of course the CCTV evidence will exonerate you, and if they cant be bothered to bring it then that wont look good for them.
My guess is that it will never go to court as they know what the costs are and its just not worth it. They will probably drop it. The worst they could do is give the case to a debt collection agency who will spend a few months telling you that the figure you owe is increasing due to the cost of recovering the money and they may visit your home and they will 'get a CCJ on your name' and other empty threats in order that you give up and send them the £50 and probably the same again for the agency.
Dwight VanDriver said:
I presume they County Court for the money like a LA PCN. The question is are they prepared to do it. The evidence is coming out that they are because the size of these organisations that are managing.
Isn't there anecdotal evidence that in practice what some do is set the debt recovery merchants into gear who then try and threaten money out of the accused without the legal proceedings having been followed? No idea if Euro Car Parks falls into this category btw.
(OK justinp1 covered this bit on prev post, messages crossed in cyber space.)
Someone on here placed a link to information (motleyfool rings a bell) or at least a precis of the situation re the legal position with the knuckledraggers aka bailiffs. Thought I'd bookmarked it but appears not. Anyone with a better memory able to provide a link?
FiF
Edited by Flat in Fifth on Monday 9th October 14:44
Flat in Fifth said:
Dwight VanDriver said:
I presume they County Court for the money like a LA PCN. The question is are they prepared to do it. The evidence is coming out that they are because the size of these organisations that are managing.
Isn't there anecdotal evidence that in practice what some do is set the debt recovery merchants into gear who then try and threaten money out of the accused without the legal proceedings having been followed? No idea if Euro Car Parks falls into this category btw.
(OK justinp1 covered this bit on prev post, messages crossed in cyber space.)
Someone on here placed a link to information (motleyfool rings a bell) or at least a precis of the situation re the legal position with the knuckledraggers aka bailiffs. Thought I'd bookmarked it but appears not. Anyone with a better memory able to provide a link?
FiF
Edited by Flat in Fifth on Monday 9th October 14:44
They are allowed to visit you to ask if you are going to pay before court action, but of course you can also politely tell them no, and they cannot do anything else. They have no ability whatsoever to enter your property or do anything else before a court has found you guilty - and even then they cannot do anything unless you have refused to pay the court (within 28/30 days of the top of my head).
I,m flying blind here fif and others in that I understand that they cannot make a claim for the debt through collection agency etc until such time as they have obtained a CCJ.
Harrassing a person or family over such a debt without a CCJ is an offence,
(Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40 as amended S35,38 and 46 CJA 1982)
Nugent - that is an interesting loop. Worth running past the CAB Solitor versed on Civil Law. PCN's have the law on their side in making the owner of the vehicle responsible if driver does not cough up but I haven't heard the same on the civil side.
dvd
Harrassing a person or family over such a debt without a CCJ is an offence,
(Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40 as amended S35,38 and 46 CJA 1982)
Nugent - that is an interesting loop. Worth running past the CAB Solitor versed on Civil Law. PCN's have the law on their side in making the owner of the vehicle responsible if driver does not cough up but I haven't heard the same on the civil side.
dvd
Interesting Post. We got a ticket from Euro Car Parks a couple of months ago whilst parked in our local Tesco (they have the contract). We parked the van at the extreme end of the (EMPTY) disabled parking, as there was no other space available. As yet they have not persued the owner. And as the owner was not the driver at the time I will keep you posted as to the outcome 
kenp said:
[quote=justinp1
That is exactly right. I cannot name the exact subsection of UK Contract Law off the top of my head but you cannot be held to account by form of a contract that you were never party to.
That is exactly right. I cannot name the exact subsection of UK Contract Law off the top of my head but you cannot be held to account by form of a contract that you were never party to.
It is not a subsection but a principle called 'privity of contract'.[/quote]
Indeed - you're not part of a contract that you're not part of, if you see what I mean.
The sign looks quite clear though - so I wouldn't go down that line UNLESS the sign does not appear somewhere that is easy to see from ALL entrances. If it is possible to enter the car park without seeing that sign and park without reasonably seeing it then you might be onto something.
Update:
Shes received a letter from Controlaccount plc (Credit Management), London:
If it were me, I'd just ignore it to see what happened. What do you think will happen? I think shes going to pay it, although her dad has suggested she phones them and offers to pay the original amount, since she was broken down in the car park.
Shes received a letter from Controlaccount plc (Credit Management), London:
letter said:
Client: EURO CAR PARKS LTD Account no:***** Ref no:***** Amount Due £75
We have been instructed by our above named client and suggest to date that you have failed to contact them with your proposals for settlement of this overdue account.
This account has been passed to ourselves with instructions to commence proceedings (IIRC, I'm reading this off a cameraphone picture) to obtain judgement against you. Such a course of action may have an adverse affect...credit....blah....blah......court costs which may disproportionately increase the amount outstanding.
To avoid this, please telephone the undersigned within 5 working days of the date of this letter (28th Dec) or send your payment by return to the following address. Cheques, Postals orders, reference numbers, etc etc
We have been instructed by our above named client and suggest to date that you have failed to contact them with your proposals for settlement of this overdue account.
This account has been passed to ourselves with instructions to commence proceedings (IIRC, I'm reading this off a cameraphone picture) to obtain judgement against you. Such a course of action may have an adverse affect...credit....blah....blah......court costs which may disproportionately increase the amount outstanding.
To avoid this, please telephone the undersigned within 5 working days of the date of this letter (28th Dec) or send your payment by return to the following address. Cheques, Postals orders, reference numbers, etc etc
If it were me, I'd just ignore it to see what happened. What do you think will happen? I think shes going to pay it, although her dad has suggested she phones them and offers to pay the original amount, since she was broken down in the car park.
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