Do theyt do what they say on the tin?

[alex_123_fra]

Just wondering if there are any Noble owners out there who have dynoed their cars as standard? If so, could you put up what power and torque figures you got. Do they get close to the quoted figures (425 bhp, 390 lb ft for the M400 and 352 bhp, 350 lb ft for the 3 and 3R?)

Just interested to know as mine is undergoing a bit of work to try and get it close to the factory-quoted figures. Was very disappointed to hear what it actually was putting out even despite the boost being corrected!

[mgbond]

Gadge will probably be along shortly to confim theat when at the owners day with an RR in Jan he noted that most std cars were 20bhp down from factory quote.

Bondy

[mr noble]

Its unusual that the cars will hit the quoted figures when tested. Obviously when they go for a test for a press release, everything is tuned up to the max to get the best possible figure.

A M400 should get about 380-410 depending on a few things and a 3/3R about 310-340. Getting one on the RR and tuning it all up will get you up to and beyond the quoted figures. Then, if you want to spend a few quid, you can quite easily go well beyond that figure.

400 bhp from a 3/3R and 450 from an M400 is pretty easy and cheap to get to. (by cheap I mean 2-3k)

HTH

Greg

ps. Others may offer different answers, this is all just what I think and not fact.

[gadgeroonie]

i've dyno'd plenty of Nobles in the last year and never seen them make the quoted power

310 bhp 2.5's make about 280 bhp

352 bhp 3.0's make about 320 bhp

not done many M400's but a fairly modified one only made 411

i've suggested a meet up and maybe we could visit Gary to run on the Dyno

this way we can get some good data on the cars out there

being down a bit on power did not put me off buying one - its not uncommon for the cars to not make quoted power

there are many reason why this is - but mostly the engines are tested on an engine Dyno where all the extra stuff like air con and power steering if not fitted, these things always sap power. Sometimes the manufacturers are just being a tad optimistic.

at the end of the a Noble is a fast car even if its not making the quoted BHP

[joust]

M12's and M400's are very close to the quoted power if my two cars are anything to go by.

M12 GTO - 316bhp spec


M400 - 425bhp spec

[alex_123_fra]

Good points guys...thanks. I agree they are great cars and it is acceptable to make slightly less power than quoted. Not sure if manufacturers are under some regulation to ensure cars should be within certain percentages of the quoted figure.

Slightly besides the point for me as my car only made circa 350 bhp after the boost was corrected from 0.4 to 0.8 bar peak. I don't actually know the details yet as picking car up tomorrow from Gary...don't even know the torque figure or the initial run results. Being 75 bhp down however is very disappointing.

My ECU may be faulty and apparently it didn't even have an M400 map in it! I guess this last bit is what really hacks me off...although I'll have to clarify what exactly that means tomorrow. If I end up getting a new factory M400 ECU, are they remappable or are they locked? Given all the trouble this has caused, I might as well get a specific map to my car rather than a generic one. How much would a remap be?

Edited by alex_123_fra on Friday 6th October 07:40

[gadgeroonie]

Joust - not all rolling roads can accurately measure power

i wouldn't mind betting the factory figures came from the one you used

[humpy]

Having done a RR to check out my ECU problems - my 2.5 is making 285 at the crank at 0.7 bar. However, it still goes like a rocket In fact, it 'feels' better than when it was over boosting to 1.25 bar

H

Edited by humpy on Friday 6th October 14:25

[joust]

gadgeroonie said:

Joust - not all rolling roads can accurately measure power
i wouldn't mind betting the factory figures came from the one you used

The two companies used are well respected for being accurate AFAIK.

Highly likely the factory figures came from one of those two, given the two people that produced the maps are involved in the V6 development.

J

[joust]

humpy said:

Having done a RR to check out my ECU problems - my 2.5 is making 285 at the wheels at 0.7 bar. However, it still goes like a rocket In fact, it 'feels' better than when it was over boosting to 1.25 bar
H

That means you have ~340 at the crank if that is correct.

My M12 post overboost controller added



J

[alex_123_fra]

joust said:

humpy said:

Having done a RR to check out my ECU problems - my 2.5 is making 285 at the wheels at 0.7 bar. However, it still goes like a rocket In fact, it 'feels' better than when it was over boosting to 1.25 bar
H

That means you have ~340 at the crank if that is correct.

Was going to say the same. Humpy is the 285 bhp at the wheels or at the fly?

[adrian w]

When new my M400 made 381bhp...............now it makes a bit more!

[alex s]

When I got mine RR'ed it made 265 hp to start with!!! Then I had the knackered cats replaced, a few other bits done and tweeked... then it went back on the RR...came off the rollers with 390 bhp and a nice smooth torque curve....was a happy man that day !! Mine is now 4 years old next month and still going strong...shows what a few sensible mods can do...also shows how good a RR is at highlighting any problems(combined with someone who knows what he is doing).It was the same RR as Justins M400 went on. Which seems to be fairly accurate.

[obes]

This was the plot after I had the ECU fail. This was on Omex.
since then, we found two blocked cats and a few other problems so once it's all back together i'll be hping for a few more !

Ignore the label on the graph: it's a 2.5, not an M400.

[humpy]

alex_123_fra said:

Humpy is the 285 bhp at the wheels or at the fly?

At the crank. Saw your car at Gary's - v nice!

alex s said:

shows what a few sensible mods can do

Alex - what mods did you have done?

obes said:

This was the plot after I had the ECU fail. This was on Omex.
since then, we found two blocked cats and a few other problems so once it's all back together i'll be hping for a few more !

337bhp from a 2.5 - blimey! What was the boost? Apart from the ECU, were there any other mods?

Mightily impressed by your DIY BTW - hope you get it back together soon Obes.

Edited to correct error - sorry this dyno stuff is all new to me

Edited by humpy on Friday 6th October 14:24

[robp]

alex 123 fra said:

Slightly besides the point for me as my car only made circa 350 bhp after the boost was corrected from 0.4 to 0.8 bar peak. I don't actually know the details yet as picking car up tomorrow from Gary...don't even know the torque figure or the initial run results. Being 75 bhp down however is very disappointing.

Alex something as simple as plugs can make a huge difference - I had a before and after RR test when getting a Roush exhaust system fitted. Before any changes the test saw me down at 360bhp (M400) and it was evident to the trained eye that there was a slight misfire due to knackered plugs. They were about 4k miles old, but this included maybe half a doz trackdays. Because the car is tracked regularly it is serviced much more frequently than specified (approx every 3k miles/3 track days). Now I include plugs as a service item as well as the usual oil, filters etc etc.
Oh and the After RR test (with the new exhaust of course) showed 432bhp and 415 ft lbs torque

[obes]

0.75 bar

[washy]

adrian w said:

When new my M400 made 381bhp...............now it makes a bit more!

Mine made about the same until Roush put a few things right and fitted their exhaust.

[alex_123_fra]

humpy said:

alex_123_fra said:

Humpy is the 285 bhp at the wheels or at the fly?

At the wheels sir. Saw your car at Gary's - v nice!

Mightily impressive humpy...must fly now!

Saw your car at Gary's too .

Got the car back today. Left the graphs in the car as it was raining so much, I'd have ruined them if I carried them home. Mine was peaking boost at 0.4 bar when I took it in...making peak power of around 311 bhp and similar lb ft torque. I'm not too technical at all but the feeder valve thingy is knackered so Gary has temporarily fixed it and peak boost is now 0.8-0.9 bar. Curve is much smoother with peak power 356bhp at the fly (similar torque from memory). He is ordering a new valve to try next week but it looks like my ECU may be knackered as the map appeared odd. So those 2 things to try next week. I'll put up the graphs as soon as I get them in the house.

Rob...know what you mean about the plugs. I actually got a full top to bottom inspection and fixed/replaced several parts/worn pipes/plugs etc as soon as I bought the car because I wanted to avoid any under-performance issues. The funniest thing of all is I was impressed with it running 311 bhp at 0.4 bar peak boost. When it gets over the magic 400, my trousers really will be brown

[kinetic]

M400's are nowhere near quoted power if mines anything to go by.
I reckon about 370HP on a freezing cold day! and generally an awful lot less than that.

As a direct comparision with a very mildly modified EVO 6 (running around 315 fly HP)using the same DL1 datalogger the M400 was showing only around 25-30 wheel HP more!

Put both cars on track for half a dozen laps or so and the EVO is actually putting out slightly more power than the M400

I am sure you can get quoted power from them with a few 'tweeks' as richard Gould has obviously proven but I have to say I was disappointed with mine in terms of power output.

Still a v.quick car though!