ROCKET Sportscar inspired Design
Discussion
I've always liked the Rocket sportscar designed by Gordon Murray, and the BROOKE R, looks really nice but wanted something a little more modern but still retro in design.
This is a rough sketch I had for a personal project, and thought I would show for feedback., to get your feedback.
I thought about a small capacity engine 1.400cc, or motorcycle engine alternative, with a very light body and chassis..
What do you guys think? would a similar design be succesfull in the kit market? prices for a kit? dimensions similar to a Sylva Mojo.
This is a rough sketch I had for a personal project, and thought I would show for feedback., to get your feedback.
I thought about a small capacity engine 1.400cc, or motorcycle engine alternative, with a very light body and chassis..
What do you guys think? would a similar design be succesfull in the kit market? prices for a kit? dimensions similar to a Sylva Mojo.
Looks good. Are we talking mid or front engine? If mid (yes please) then how about moving from the current happy fish front to a mean fish front with a 156 sharknose reference.
Thinking a bit more... A transverse bike engine behind a pair of seats in a retro sixties F1 inspired kit should be an absolute winner. You could even use a smart bodywork approach linked to a standard tubular chassis to offer cars inspired by different marques i.e. brm, lotus, ferrari etc. Buy a few and recreate Grand Prix (the movie) down at you local airfield.
So there you have it. A bike engined mini Arial Atom with Smart drop in panels and a sixties F1 design look. Flat packed for 15k and you'll be a millionare (or ruined by Christmas, one of the two).
Thinking a bit more... A transverse bike engine behind a pair of seats in a retro sixties F1 inspired kit should be an absolute winner. You could even use a smart bodywork approach linked to a standard tubular chassis to offer cars inspired by different marques i.e. brm, lotus, ferrari etc. Buy a few and recreate Grand Prix (the movie) down at you local airfield.
So there you have it. A bike engined mini Arial Atom with Smart drop in panels and a sixties F1 design look. Flat packed for 15k and you'll be a millionare (or ruined by Christmas, one of the two).
Edited by rustybin on Friday 6th October 17:57
rustybin said:
Looks good. Are we talking mid or front engine? If mid (yes please) then how about moving from the current happy fish front to a mean fish front with a 156 sharknose reference.
Thinking a bit more... A transverse bike engine behind a pair of seats in a retro sixties F1 inspired kit should be an absolute winner. You could even use a smart bodywork approach linked to a standard tubular chassis to offer cars inspired by different marques i.e. brm, lotus, ferrari etc. Buy a few and recreate Grand Prix (the movie) down at you local airfield.
So there you have it. A bike engined mini Arial Atom with Smart drop in panels and a sixties F1 design look. Flat packed for 15k and you'll be a millionare (or ruined by Christmas, one of the two).
Thinking a bit more... A transverse bike engine behind a pair of seats in a retro sixties F1 inspired kit should be an absolute winner. You could even use a smart bodywork approach linked to a standard tubular chassis to offer cars inspired by different marques i.e. brm, lotus, ferrari etc. Buy a few and recreate Grand Prix (the movie) down at you local airfield.
So there you have it. A bike engined mini Arial Atom with Smart drop in panels and a sixties F1 design look. Flat packed for 15k and you'll be a millionare (or ruined by Christmas, one of the two).
Edited by rustybin on Friday 6th October 17:57
Mid-engine for sure!..but i like the happy fish front end..
, , but the 156 sharknose is really a nice idea....maybe another sketch I like your idea of cars inspired by the 60's racers, maybe someone could pick up on it and create a new fun track seroes..
Thanks for the feedback..
Joe T said:
Looks nice, better without a wing I reckon looks cleaner, how about more ground clearance and a 4x4 wheels an tyres, modern sandrail?
I guess you could customize it to your liking, but i could see it more as a fun and cheaper track racer.....but any option could be considered, if a niche market is found.
With nore ground clearance and 4x4, it would be more of a dune buggy/sandrail, interesting niche but, the car design would have to be changed quite a bit!
Now this is the sort of thing I think would do well as a kit - A kind of modern caterham in a way - small, lightweight sausage shape but by far the most inspired update to the design I've seen! Would be extremely easy to adapt one of the current mid engined 7 style chassis to be the bones for this body.
Davi said:
Now this is the sort of thing I think would do well as a kit - A kind of modern caterham in a way - small, lightweight sausage shape but by far the most inspired update to the design I've seen! Would be extremely easy to adapt one of the current mid engined 7 style chassis to be the bones for this body.
Thanks!, I really agree with you.
Davi said:
I can honestly say, if I didn't have so many projects on the go already, that would have been something I'd consider developing. About the only complex (and I think extremely expensive) parts would be the screen. I really hope you get somewhere with one of these designs soon!
For the screen I was thinking of a Polycarbonate windscreen; I'm considering it as my own personal design project, and needed some feedback from enthusiasts in this forum .
Thanks for the helpful feedback, will try to use it when developing this design further..
Cheers
IIalo
fuoriserie said:
For the screen I was thinking of a Polycarbonate windscreen; I'm considering it as my own personal design project, and needed some feedback from enthusiasts in this forum .
Thanks for the helpful feedback, will try to use it when developing this design further..
Cheers
IIalo
I cant remember the regs off the top of my head, but you have to be careful with how much of a window you have if you want polycarb - it's got to be a definite "flyscreen" rather than a windscreen to get away with anything less than a kitemarked laminate glass windscreen - which is why my project flailed about for so long - couldn't find a production screen I liked, couldn't afford the 10's of £000's for the screen development!!!
Davi said:
[quote=fuoriserie]
I cant remember the regs off the top of my head, but you have to be careful with how much of a window you have if you want polycarb - it's got to be a definite "flyscreen" rather than a windscreen to get away with anything less than a kitemarked laminate glass windscreen - which is why my project flailed about for so long - couldn't find a production screen I liked, couldn't afford the 10's of £000's for the screen development!!!
I cant remember the regs off the top of my head, but you have to be careful with how much of a window you have if you want polycarb - it's got to be a definite "flyscreen" rather than a windscreen to get away with anything less than a kitemarked laminate glass windscreen - which is why my project flailed about for so long - couldn't find a production screen I liked, couldn't afford the 10's of £000's for the screen development!!!
Was wondering if the Stratos replica windscreen would work on this design?, but I'm sure you're right , will have to check on this .
http://rootpeg.net/SVAMarch2004.pdf
Pages 64 and 65 advise on how to tell whether or not you have a windscreen. If you have then section 8 applies i.e. it must be constructed of safety glass i.e. comply with relvant BS. ECE or ECU regs and display the proof accordingly.
ETA: I think you would be miles from being considered to have a screen. Equally I think the Stratos screen would be completely wrong. It is also a huge amount of weight you don't need in terms of the glass itslef ad the structure to support it not to mention the mandatory de-misting equipment, wipers with attendandt gearboxes and motors, screen washers and the larger alternator and battery to run that little lot. Keep inside the virtuous circle of ligthness. The blokes got a lid on. What more does he want?
Good luck
Pages 64 and 65 advise on how to tell whether or not you have a windscreen. If you have then section 8 applies i.e. it must be constructed of safety glass i.e. comply with relvant BS. ECE or ECU regs and display the proof accordingly.
ETA: I think you would be miles from being considered to have a screen. Equally I think the Stratos screen would be completely wrong. It is also a huge amount of weight you don't need in terms of the glass itslef ad the structure to support it not to mention the mandatory de-misting equipment, wipers with attendandt gearboxes and motors, screen washers and the larger alternator and battery to run that little lot. Keep inside the virtuous circle of ligthness. The blokes got a lid on. What more does he want?
Good luck
Edited by rustybin on Tuesday 10th October 10:04
rustybin said:
http://rootpeg.net/SVAMarch2004.pdf
Pages 64 and 65 advise on how to tell whether or not you have a windscreen. If you have then section 8 applies i.e. it must be constructed of safety glass i.e. comply with relvant BS. ECE or ECU regs and display the proof accordingly.
ETA: I think you would be miles from being considered to have a screen. Equally I think the Stratos screen would be completely wrong. It is also a huge amount of weight you don't need in terms of the glass itslef ad the structure to support it not to mention the mandatory de-misting equipment, wipers with attendandt gearboxes and motors, screen washers and the larger alternator and battery to run that little lot. Keep inside the virtuous circle of ligthness. The blokes got a lid on. What more does he want?
Good luck
Pages 64 and 65 advise on how to tell whether or not you have a windscreen. If you have then section 8 applies i.e. it must be constructed of safety glass i.e. comply with relvant BS. ECE or ECU regs and display the proof accordingly.
ETA: I think you would be miles from being considered to have a screen. Equally I think the Stratos screen would be completely wrong. It is also a huge amount of weight you don't need in terms of the glass itslef ad the structure to support it not to mention the mandatory de-misting equipment, wipers with attendandt gearboxes and motors, screen washers and the larger alternator and battery to run that little lot. Keep inside the virtuous circle of ligthness. The blokes got a lid on. What more does he want?
Good luck
Edited by rustybin on Tuesday 10th October 10:04
Whilst I would agree that a flyscreen is all that is needed for this design, and you really dont want to go adding alot of weight with, as you say, all the associated gubbins that a true screen would bring, I think a VERY important aspect to consider for the kit market is versatility - sure, you or I might be happy to slap a lid on and get a bit damp on the less inclement days, but there are a lot of people who only think they wouldn't mind, but when it comes time to slap down the hard earned, suddenly think that a wet weather option might be nice.
One of the beauties of the 7 is it is extremely useable even if it has got severely limited wet gear - it does have something that the prospective owner can say "hell, doesn't matter, can always put the roof up.
I think the stratos screen is actually quite an inspired thought, and definitely worth further investigation as to suitability - if it doesn't form too much of a compromise, you can then taylor the flyscreen option to fit the footprint of the stratos screen, but above that be more tuned to your design.
that way, you are not discounting any prospective customers before you start.
Davi, I couldn't agree more that if you can provide an all weather car then you are broadening your market appeal imeasureably. However, flourisie's design to my mind works because it exploits the opportunities provided by not having one. If one compromises that basic rightness, by sticking a large screen on it, it becomes neither one thing nor the other. Your right that the sevens work with a screen but that is because the design is practically Georgian in terms of the number of vertical(ish) faces. If you add one very upright face to an almost F1 inspired sleek design it will stand out like a sore windscreen.
One of the other things that the seven design achieves due to its fundamental rightness is that it is so readily adaptable. I believe that such an opportunity exists for a smart manufacturer for the mid-engined 21st century seven whereby the chassis is capable of taking bike engines and boxes, Audi TT engines and transmission and has the opportuntiy to add windscreens, hardtops et al. I would suggets that that versatility means that customers would be less concerned with what they start with as long as they know it can be adapted at little cost at a later date. You could start your build with no screen. Fling it around with a flyscreen in the summer. Add a windscreen in the autumn and then by the targa top and sidescreens in the winter
All, of course, very much IMHO.
One of the other things that the seven design achieves due to its fundamental rightness is that it is so readily adaptable. I believe that such an opportunity exists for a smart manufacturer for the mid-engined 21st century seven whereby the chassis is capable of taking bike engines and boxes, Audi TT engines and transmission and has the opportuntiy to add windscreens, hardtops et al. I would suggets that that versatility means that customers would be less concerned with what they start with as long as they know it can be adapted at little cost at a later date. You could start your build with no screen. Fling it around with a flyscreen in the summer. Add a windscreen in the autumn and then by the targa top and sidescreens in the winter
All, of course, very much IMHO.
rustybin said:
Davi, I couldn't agree more that if you can provide an all weather car then you are broadening your market appeal imeasureably. However, flourisie's design to my mind works because it exploits the opportunities provided by not having one. If one compromises that basic rightness, by sticking a large screen on it, it becomes neither one thing nor the other. Your right that the sevens work with a screen but that is because the design is practically Georgian in terms of the number of vertical(ish) faces. If you add one very upright face to an almost F1 inspired sleek design it will stand out like a sore windscreen.
One of the other things that the seven design achieves due to its fundamental rightness is that it is so readily adaptable. I believe that such an opportunity exists for a smart manufacturer for the mid-engined 21st century seven whereby the chassis is capable of taking bike engines and boxes, Audi TT engines and transmission and has the opportuntiy to add windscreens, hardtops et al. I would suggets that that versatility means that customers would be less concerned with what they start with as long as they know it can be adapted at little cost at a later date. You could start your build with no screen. Fling it around with a flyscreen in the summer. Add a windscreen in the autumn and then by the targa top and sidescreens in the winter
All, of course, very much IMHO.
One of the other things that the seven design achieves due to its fundamental rightness is that it is so readily adaptable. I believe that such an opportunity exists for a smart manufacturer for the mid-engined 21st century seven whereby the chassis is capable of taking bike engines and boxes, Audi TT engines and transmission and has the opportuntiy to add windscreens, hardtops et al. I would suggets that that versatility means that customers would be less concerned with what they start with as long as they know it can be adapted at little cost at a later date. You could start your build with no screen. Fling it around with a flyscreen in the summer. Add a windscreen in the autumn and then by the targa top and sidescreens in the winter
All, of course, very much IMHO.
and a very well considered opinion it is too
I agree to a certain level - in fact, if it weren't for his mention of the stratos screen I would agree 100%, but I think with that choice it is extremely similar in shape to the forepart of flourisie's design - add secondary poly screens to its sides tapered down and you would (I think) have almost identical footprint to the glass as the flyscreen, with VERY similar rake and curve - got to be extremely close to that depicted with just the addition of side pillars and a slight increase in height. Once you've got that ability there, and are certain of the fitment possibilities, strip it all back off, make the flyscreen exactly as you wanted - hey presto a car you can take to market being 99% the same as your original design, with a fallback position for those that say nay - you've only got to look at the numerous comments on Javan's thread to see that many people looked at his creation and said "it's nice, but I can get something similar elsewhere that is more useable cos I can keep dry."
Having googled for Stratos pics. Yup, if you have to have some glass, that's a good bit to use. The point of violent agreement grows closer and closer.
As we seem to agree on the concept of glass being something to design in but leave optional, how's about moving it a stage further...
...variable pitch. Veering somewhat away fom the 'light is right' theory here but bear with me. If the screens angle could be adjusted you could have it folded down for trackdays so that it just lay across your knees but could then be wound up into its normal road going position. If one were clever, blowers and wipers could be made comparatively modular so that you could move relatively easily between modes.
As we seem to agree on the concept of glass being something to design in but leave optional, how's about moving it a stage further...
...variable pitch. Veering somewhat away fom the 'light is right' theory here but bear with me. If the screens angle could be adjusted you could have it folded down for trackdays so that it just lay across your knees but could then be wound up into its normal road going position. If one were clever, blowers and wipers could be made comparatively modular so that you could move relatively easily between modes.
rustybin said:
Having googled for Stratos pics. Yup, if you have to have some glass, that's a good bit to use. The point of violent agreement grows closer and closer.
As we seem to agree on the concept of glass being something to design in but leave optional, how's about moving it a stage further...
...variable pitch. Veering somewhat away fom the 'light is right' theory here but bear with me. If the screens angle could be adjusted you could have it folded down for trackdays so that it just lay across your knees but could then be wound up into its normal road going position. If one were clever, blowers and wipers could be made comparatively modular so that you could move relatively easily between modes.
As we seem to agree on the concept of glass being something to design in but leave optional, how's about moving it a stage further...
...variable pitch. Veering somewhat away fom the 'light is right' theory here but bear with me. If the screens angle could be adjusted you could have it folded down for trackdays so that it just lay across your knees but could then be wound up into its normal road going position. If one were clever, blowers and wipers could be made comparatively modular so that you could move relatively easily between modes.
OK, now you are just showing off
Nice idea - very nice and very different. Dont think I've ever seen a "wind up" windscreen. I did a flip up one on a beetle chop I did many moons back, but wind up...
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff