Griffith 500 Fuel Tank Collapsed
Discussion
I was dismayed to find that my fuel tank has imploded/collapsed, and I was only retrieving my roof panel. Looks like a heavy truck has run it over! Its still in-situ in the car, no leaks thankfully, car running fine. Any ideas as to what has caused this? Looks like excessive vacuum has literally sucked it in on itself, carbon canister? I've never seen or heard of anything like this in over 30 years of driving - yep I'm an old git! Any ideas out there, as I don't want to repeat the experience with a new tank.
Edited by j666grf on Sunday 8th October 23:24
that sounds like a vent fault,i have seen diesel fuel tanks do this when the vent as become obstructed,strange thing is they run like there is no problem,until you refuel.they normally blow out with some compressed air,best use someone who,s done this before its not something to take lightly.you only need a small vacuum to create this problem would you believe.they nrmally blow out with no permanent damage.investigate reason first.,good luck.
Thanks for all the comments.
From my enquires the consensus is that the culprit was the carbon cannister that provides the breathing on later cars [mine is 2000], earlier cars apparently breathe through the petrol cap. Mine spluttered to a halt in deep flood water on one of the runs at BNG and the cannister may have decide to purge then and draw-up water. An expensive run if that hypothesis is correct!
Unfortunately the tank is creased and badly distorted, a specialist said it was the worst he'd seen and was not repairable - dents apparently may have been.
New tanks are no longer available via TVR [I am reliably informed that all parts via the factory are problematic for everything, new cars needing repairs under warranty are having to wait - very worrying] so its either source a used tank or have one made up unless anyone out there knows better.
Interestingly I have also fitted an after market alloy filler cap, bought at BNG, but as my car has the closed circuit breathing system I can't see this making any difference - unless anyone knows otherwise. If that alloy cap was anything to do with it then the manufacturers need to know - they would owe me a fuel tank! Anyone else had problems after fitting the alloy fuel filler cap?
From my enquires the consensus is that the culprit was the carbon cannister that provides the breathing on later cars [mine is 2000], earlier cars apparently breathe through the petrol cap. Mine spluttered to a halt in deep flood water on one of the runs at BNG and the cannister may have decide to purge then and draw-up water. An expensive run if that hypothesis is correct!
Unfortunately the tank is creased and badly distorted, a specialist said it was the worst he'd seen and was not repairable - dents apparently may have been.
New tanks are no longer available via TVR [I am reliably informed that all parts via the factory are problematic for everything, new cars needing repairs under warranty are having to wait - very worrying] so its either source a used tank or have one made up unless anyone out there knows better.
Interestingly I have also fitted an after market alloy filler cap, bought at BNG, but as my car has the closed circuit breathing system I can't see this making any difference - unless anyone knows otherwise. If that alloy cap was anything to do with it then the manufacturers need to know - they would owe me a fuel tank! Anyone else had problems after fitting the alloy fuel filler cap?
j666grf said:
Mongoose what year is your car? Is it a pre-cat? Just pursuing the petrol cap scenario, if they can cause problems then we need to know.
My car is also a 2000 model.To be honest, i also suspected the carbon cannister,but thought that venting to atmosphere through the cap would be much easier than regularly having problems with the cannister(lots about them on here).I'm guessing my original cap didn't have such a good seal as the Leven one,and thus was not allowing a vacuum to build up,like yours is.I've had no problems at all since venting the cap,although i've been informed it might not be strictly legal
your on the right lines with the standard cap,they dont seal well if you look its crap quality ,they dont hold vacuum like there supposed to,thats the idea of the canister system,as any of you know with a late car,when you take off the cap you hear a whooshing sound its so the fumes get burnt by the engine via the carbon canister and not vanted to to the atmosphere, yet not to strong a vacuum to collapse tank,,Blimey you would think these cars where ECO friendly,i would say TREVOR had to do it for approval reasons.
Thanks mongoose and that daddy.
I suspect that you are both correct about the sealing, or lack of, on the standard cap as it never did hiss. I do recall that it was obvious on an old 944 I used to have, but its original components were of a decent quality.
I have sourced a used tank but this has turned out to be alloy rather than steel. Anyone know if they are interchangeable?
I suspect that you are both correct about the sealing, or lack of, on the standard cap as it never did hiss. I do recall that it was obvious on an old 944 I used to have, but its original components were of a decent quality.
I have sourced a used tank but this has turned out to be alloy rather than steel. Anyone know if they are interchangeable?
j666grf said:
I have sourced a used tank but this has turned out to be alloy rather than steel. Anyone know if they are interchangeable?
Hi, A visitor from the Chim camp!
My 2000 Chim makes a lot of noise (sounds like it's passing wind) from the fuel filler when I restart it after driving a few miles. This is much louder than the small noise the fuel pump makes when priming.
If I try it with the filler cap off, no noise(except the pump).
I have the standard filler cap. Not sure how this carbon cannister works, the Bible is not very informative on this.
I have been reading this thread with interest and wondering whether I should be investigating this further
My 2000 Chim makes a lot of noise (sounds like it's passing wind) from the fuel filler when I restart it after driving a few miles. This is much louder than the small noise the fuel pump makes when priming.
If I try it with the filler cap off, no noise(except the pump).
I have the standard filler cap. Not sure how this carbon cannister works, the Bible is not very informative on this.
I have been reading this thread with interest and wondering whether I should be investigating this further
Thanks mongoose.
I have been told that earlier cars had alloy tanks but steel was substituted on later cars - TVR penny-pinching?. My crumpled mess is black painted steel, there are 2 x labels on it with dates 07/03 & 08/03 so I wonder whether this has happened before? I have ordered a new carbon cannister and will do what I can to test the breathing system before connecting the replacement tank. Anybody know how to do this? I have taken measurements from my old tank and hope to compare with the alloy one tomorrow. If I can't test the breathing system myself I'll probably take it to Drivestyle without the petrol cap to get it checked out, once I get it all back together. I'm just very wary of a repeat performance as I am not looking forward to doing this tranasplant even though it looks [!] straightforward? Anybody else changed a tank?
Mongoose as your car is the same year is mine, I'd like to know if your tank is alloy?
TVR Keith it may be an idea to get your carbon can and breather system checked, cheaper & less aggro than the tank self-destructing even if you have to go to a main dealer.
I have been told that earlier cars had alloy tanks but steel was substituted on later cars - TVR penny-pinching?. My crumpled mess is black painted steel, there are 2 x labels on it with dates 07/03 & 08/03 so I wonder whether this has happened before? I have ordered a new carbon cannister and will do what I can to test the breathing system before connecting the replacement tank. Anybody know how to do this? I have taken measurements from my old tank and hope to compare with the alloy one tomorrow. If I can't test the breathing system myself I'll probably take it to Drivestyle without the petrol cap to get it checked out, once I get it all back together. I'm just very wary of a repeat performance as I am not looking forward to doing this tranasplant even though it looks [!] straightforward? Anybody else changed a tank?
Mongoose as your car is the same year is mine, I'd like to know if your tank is alloy?
TVR Keith it may be an idea to get your carbon can and breather system checked, cheaper & less aggro than the tank self-destructing even if you have to go to a main dealer.
j666grf said:
Mongoose as your car is the same year is mine, I'd like to know if your tank is alloy?
I'll have a look for you tomorrow,no probs,but it sound's like it'll be steel then.I'd never heard of this until now. Any pics of your car Graham,please?
Edited by mongoose on Tuesday 10th October 20:38
Looks like a happy ending. Picked-up a replacement tank from Douglas Valley yesterday 01257 472866/07708 915870 email ian@douglasvalley.co.uk., very helpful and reasonable.
My advice
1. Take measurements of your existing tank noting positions of inlets and outlets,
2. note the type of sender unit you have, these vary as I found and are not necessarily interchangeable between tanks. The 2 x terminal connector block sender will not fit into a tank originally fitted with the 3 x spade terminal + earth type. Personally I am not brave enough to adapt the cars wiring for a different sender unit.
3. ensure that you get a Griff tank, the Chimaera tank is very similar but the filler pipe is in a different position.
4. if you are swapping steel tank for alloy you will need the filler neck, petrol cap and pipe that goes with the alloy tank. This is of smaller diameter and is angled to mate up with the filler pipe of the alloy tank.
5. You will also need the retaining straps - slightly different.
6.If possible get the trim panel that fits just above the tank, this is a different molding to the later one and the carpet glued to the tank, this will be trimmed around the petrol filler that is in a different position.
7. Removal of your existing tank is pretty straightforward, the tank may be drained by removing the large rubber gromet in the LHS of the boot floor, this exposes a banjo connector that may then be unscrewed - just make sure you have a suitable container for the petrol. The rest is obvious.
8. You may wish to clean and flush the relacement tank while it is out of the car.
9. To fit the alloy tank you need to remove the banjo connector and shorten the flexible outlet pipe. It helps to remove the NSR wheel to tighten the jubilee clips, you will also need to swap the filler assemblies not forgetting the sealant, vaseline helps connecting rubber fuel lines. I had to joggle the tank a bit to align it with the fuel filler and the outlet hole. The most awkward part is connecting the outlet pipe to the fuel pump, this has to be short for the tank to fit flush against the bulkhead and it can be difficult to insert the hooped metal pipe that goes over the lower wishbone - took me ages[!!!], you should seal around the outlet pipe with a good flexible sealant.
10. The only real problem I have is that the filler pipe now fouls a rear speaker magnet - so its either new speakers with shallow magnets or speaker spacers to move them forward aesthetics could be unacceptable though.
11. The new carbon can has arrived but thats a job for another day.
12. Am I the only one who has had this extreme tank problem with a late Griff? My original tank looked even worse when removed, seriously creased.
My advice
1. Take measurements of your existing tank noting positions of inlets and outlets,
2. note the type of sender unit you have, these vary as I found and are not necessarily interchangeable between tanks. The 2 x terminal connector block sender will not fit into a tank originally fitted with the 3 x spade terminal + earth type. Personally I am not brave enough to adapt the cars wiring for a different sender unit.
3. ensure that you get a Griff tank, the Chimaera tank is very similar but the filler pipe is in a different position.
4. if you are swapping steel tank for alloy you will need the filler neck, petrol cap and pipe that goes with the alloy tank. This is of smaller diameter and is angled to mate up with the filler pipe of the alloy tank.
5. You will also need the retaining straps - slightly different.
6.If possible get the trim panel that fits just above the tank, this is a different molding to the later one and the carpet glued to the tank, this will be trimmed around the petrol filler that is in a different position.
7. Removal of your existing tank is pretty straightforward, the tank may be drained by removing the large rubber gromet in the LHS of the boot floor, this exposes a banjo connector that may then be unscrewed - just make sure you have a suitable container for the petrol. The rest is obvious.
8. You may wish to clean and flush the relacement tank while it is out of the car.
9. To fit the alloy tank you need to remove the banjo connector and shorten the flexible outlet pipe. It helps to remove the NSR wheel to tighten the jubilee clips, you will also need to swap the filler assemblies not forgetting the sealant, vaseline helps connecting rubber fuel lines. I had to joggle the tank a bit to align it with the fuel filler and the outlet hole. The most awkward part is connecting the outlet pipe to the fuel pump, this has to be short for the tank to fit flush against the bulkhead and it can be difficult to insert the hooped metal pipe that goes over the lower wishbone - took me ages[!!!], you should seal around the outlet pipe with a good flexible sealant.
10. The only real problem I have is that the filler pipe now fouls a rear speaker magnet - so its either new speakers with shallow magnets or speaker spacers to move them forward aesthetics could be unacceptable though.
11. The new carbon can has arrived but thats a job for another day.
12. Am I the only one who has had this extreme tank problem with a late Griff? My original tank looked even worse when removed, seriously creased.
Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff