suspension, roadbehaviour of Tasmin compared to Lotus Eclat
Discussion
hi, today i sold my Lotus Eclat to get the garage free for my tasmin. yesterday i took my "old" baby out for a cruise and was amazed about the roadbehaviour of the lotus and how "crispy" it felt during driving.
and now the TVR: dont get me wrong saying that now: the tvr´s roadbehaviour compared to the lotus is sh....feels like an old steemboat compared to an offshore boat.
far away....or do i see something wrong? i mean the cars had been direct competitors on the market when they had been new.
the lotus had the original suspension parts fitted, standard rubber-bushes, standard shocks and coils.
i already recognized that, when i owned a tasmin 2+2 long time ago. there i thought the worn bushes are responsible for that. but my "new" tasmin hasnt worn suspension parts and nearly feels similar to the old one. any help or advice?
dont say i should sell my tasmin and buy a lotus again....i like the tasmin...so easy to maintain
and now the TVR: dont get me wrong saying that now: the tvr´s roadbehaviour compared to the lotus is sh....feels like an old steemboat compared to an offshore boat.
far away....or do i see something wrong? i mean the cars had been direct competitors on the market when they had been new.
the lotus had the original suspension parts fitted, standard rubber-bushes, standard shocks and coils.
i already recognized that, when i owned a tasmin 2+2 long time ago. there i thought the worn bushes are responsible for that. but my "new" tasmin hasnt worn suspension parts and nearly feels similar to the old one. any help or advice?
dont say i should sell my tasmin and buy a lotus again....i like the tasmin...so easy to maintain
I used to own a Lotus Excel. The handling of the Lotus is on a different planet to the Tasmins. I could take corners at unbeleivable speeds in the Lotus and it would just "go" around them, no trouble, effortless. I wouldn't even contemplate going anywhere near those speeds in the wedge, ever.
Having never driven a Lotus I shouldn't comment. But I won't let it stop me
General consensus of opinions seems to be that all other things being equal the worst handling Lotus will be better on the twists than the best TVR ever made!
Now that's brave words that risk being excommunicated from Wedgedom!
To me it matters not. There is always something faster/better, slower/worse. Unless you've got an Verion or a 2CV that is It's the sound(V8 rumble), smell(damp), adrenaline rush (fiasco cornering and Russian roulette braking) the community (on here and at the Fest).
I couldn't give a flying fig if someone else has got something faster or better handling they can keep it. They think they have the better car but I know I have the better "experience". I love my Wedge and I'm never going to sell it. When my time comes I want to be buried in it
Having said that when it fails the MOT in a couple of weeks time and needs new exhaust manifolds the warm fuzzy feelings might turn somewhat blacker
Leo
General consensus of opinions seems to be that all other things being equal the worst handling Lotus will be better on the twists than the best TVR ever made!
Now that's brave words that risk being excommunicated from Wedgedom!
To me it matters not. There is always something faster/better, slower/worse. Unless you've got an Verion or a 2CV that is
It's the sound(V8 rumble), smell(damp), adrenaline rush (fiasco cornering and Russian roulette braking) the community (on here and at the Fest). I couldn't give a flying fig if someone else has got something faster or better handling they can keep it. They think they have the better car but I know I have the better "experience". I love my Wedge and I'm never going to sell it. When my time comes I want to be buried in it
Having said that when it fails the MOT in a couple of weeks time and needs new exhaust manifolds the warm fuzzy feelings might turn somewhat blacker
Leo
to all others: yeah your are completely right: the great advantage on the tvr´s is that you get the spare-parts (espc for the 280) really cheap, its easy to maintain, not so "sensitive" when not maintained regulary...and it makes fun too.
but i must say: i never had any bigger problems with my eclats and elites...but when driving i was always a bit concerned if something (expensive) could brakedown or the cambelt snaps or, or, or....
when i friend would knock my door and say:lets drive 1000km to italy, we´ll take the tvr. i would say: yes, for sure!!
with the lotus i would say....hmmm, i dont know, maybe we´ll take my skoda octavia!!!
LOL!!!
but i must say: i never had any bigger problems with my eclats and elites...but when driving i was always a bit concerned if something (expensive) could brakedown or the cambelt snaps or, or, or....
when i friend would knock my door and say:lets drive 1000km to italy, we´ll take the tvr. i would say: yes, for sure!!
with the lotus i would say....hmmm, i dont know, maybe we´ll take my skoda octavia!!!
LOL!!!
Never driven a real Lotus so can't compare handling but did have a Lotus Sunbeam with the Esprit 2.2 16v in it - was always low on power and the car was supposedly destined for sprinting so I had a hi-spec rebuild carried out by a specialist and in the end I could have bought a half share in a race tuscan for the cost of it.
On the handling front though I think there is a big difference in a well sorted car. I had a complete suspension replacement (springs, shocks, re-bushed and alighned etc) done by RT in about 95 on my 350i and shortly after took it to Castle Combe. Obviously lost out in the power stakes against the later bigger engined cars but corner speed was as good if not better then nearly everything else there and you don't tend to hear griff or chim owners complaining too much about handling.
One thing I have found though is that when wedge's let go they snap and it is impossible to catch - could just be my reactions though !
On the handling front though I think there is a big difference in a well sorted car. I had a complete suspension replacement (springs, shocks, re-bushed and alighned etc) done by RT in about 95 on my 350i and shortly after took it to Castle Combe. Obviously lost out in the power stakes against the later bigger engined cars but corner speed was as good if not better then nearly everything else there and you don't tend to hear griff or chim owners complaining too much about handling.
One thing I have found though is that when wedge's let go they snap and it is impossible to catch - could just be my reactions though !
chunder said:
One thing I have found though is that when wedge's let go they snap and it is impossible to catch - could just be my reactions though !
Use cheaper rear tyres.
I use SO2PP's on the front and some £50 Klebers on the back. Nice predictable progressive breakaway at the rear and totally dependable grip on the front. Scott and I were 4 wheel drifting round the bends at snetterton last year and the car was in lovely balance. My suspension is fairly soft to permit 'B' road use without giving too hard a ride.
... or put the oldest tyres on the back. Gives the same effect - a bit less grip, which can be provoked to break away by the accelerator, so you soon get a feel for it.
If you're worried about your reactions then do some practice on a skid pan. They don't snap away that quickly really, and your arse is right over the back wheels, so it's relatively easy to detect.
If you're worried about your reactions then do some practice on a skid pan. They don't snap away that quickly really, and your arse is right over the back wheels, so it's relatively easy to detect.
poor power output on your lotus engine ? these engines never had been so powerful. but there are 2 main things: you MUST rev it to nearly 7000rpm and shift than (normal for a 16Valve engine), the carbs must be set-up properly and never, never-ever take the ignition timing back for driving with 92 unleaded. these engines need min. 98 octane (or higher, but thats a waste of money).
also the 280 tasmin isnt a real sprinter. the ford engines are always a bit "tired" at begining.
when i compare it with my old 1974 alfa-romeo gtv with a 2 liter engine and 130HP, both-->the lotus and the tvr feel like they have max 100HP.
also the 280 tasmin isnt a real sprinter. the ford engines are always a bit "tired" at begining.
when i compare it with my old 1974 alfa-romeo gtv with a 2 liter engine and 130HP, both-->the lotus and the tvr feel like they have max 100HP.
adam quantrill said:
If you're worried about your reactions then do some practice on a skid pan. They don't snap away that quickly really, and your arse is right over the back wheels, so it's relatively easy to detect.
It has always been suicidal application of the loud pedal on a circuit in sprints coupled with a rock hard set up and vicious power delivery.
I'm still not "connected" to this car like I have been many others, much further suspension work to go as dollars slowly allow.
tallbloke said:
Use cheaper rear tyres. 
I use SO2PP's on the front and some £50 Klebers on the back. Nice predictable progressive breakaway at the rear and totally dependable grip on the front. Scott and I were 4 wheel drifting round the bends at snetterton last year and the car was in lovely balance. My suspension is fairly soft to permit 'B' road use without giving too hard a ride.
Works for me too.... I use SO2PP's on the front and some £50 Klebers on the back. Nice predictable progressive breakaway at the rear and totally dependable grip on the front. Scott and I were 4 wheel drifting round the bends at snetterton last year and the car was in lovely balance. My suspension is fairly soft to permit 'B' road use without giving too hard a ride.
Soft suspension - corners better on the rough roads around here.
SO3s on the front - good stopping in the dry.
Oversize Uniroyals on the back.
The Uniroyals are cheap as chips, last for ages, rock solid in the wet and break progressively in all conditions. They probably don't have the ultimate dry-road grip of the SO3s, but they sure seem to have taken a lot of the buttock clenching nervousness out of driving in wet/damp/uncertain road conditions.
So far, I've managed to catch the rear every time it's stepped out (although I did mange to hit the steering bump stop during one recovery
) I originally tried the Uniroyals out as an experiment in oversize tyres to give me some badly needed extra ground clearance (I ground a hole in the original exhaust in only 400 miles). As fas as I'm concerned it worked and I've used oversize Uniroyals on the back ever since.
: original tyres with speed-index "V" arent produced anymore...and this is a major thing here in germay for the mot.I've never driven a Lotus, but have driven a fair number of RWD cars in my time, and have to admit there's something rather concerning about the amount of bump-steer on my 390. I,ve replaced all the front and rear suspension bushes (albeit with standard 'rubber' bushes,and replaced the front tie bar and Anti roll bar bushes with poly bushes. I've checked to the best of my ability the front camber/castor and rear camber settings using a plumb-bob style guage, and am pretty sure they're within 1/2 degree of factory guidelines.
I didn't want to compromise the ride too much ,which is why i went for mostly standard bushes. hell, anyway,there's less than 5mm thickness of rubber in the standard bushes, surely there can't be much movement over a bush 2" long could there?.
However! take her on the track and she behaves impeccably. i've got So2's all round on the standard wheels (8 x 15 OZ's)still, and the handling is wonderful, needing serious amounts of abuse to make the rear end step out.
She only lets herself down on the bumpy/repaired/worn b roads where the bump steer becomes a bit of a pain.
BUT She growls like several angry lions, backpops like hell, and just gets the adrenaline rushing every time... which is what makes me come back for more:-)
I didn't want to compromise the ride too much ,which is why i went for mostly standard bushes. hell, anyway,there's less than 5mm thickness of rubber in the standard bushes, surely there can't be much movement over a bush 2" long could there?.
However! take her on the track and she behaves impeccably. i've got So2's all round on the standard wheels (8 x 15 OZ's)still, and the handling is wonderful, needing serious amounts of abuse to make the rear end step out.
She only lets herself down on the bumpy/repaired/worn b roads where the bump steer becomes a bit of a pain.
BUT She growls like several angry lions, backpops like hell, and just gets the adrenaline rushing every time... which is what makes me come back for more:-)
Edited by andy390 on Tuesday 17th October 21:56
andy390 said:
I've never driven a Lotus, but have driven a fair number of RWD cars in my time, and have to admit there's something rather concerning about the amount of bump-steer on my 390. I,ve replaced all the front and rear suspension bushes (albeit with standard 'rubber' bushes,and replaced the front tie bar and Anti roll bar bushes with poly bushes. I've checked to the best of my ability the front camber/castor and rear camber settings using a plumb-bob style guage, and am pretty sure they're within 1/2 degree of factory guidelines.
I didn't want to compromise the ride too much ,which is why i went for mostly standard bushes. hell, anyway,there's less than 5mm thickness of rubber in the standard bushes, surely there can't be much movement over a bush 2" long could there?.
However! take her on the track and she behaves impeccably. i've got So2's all round on the standard wheels (8 x 15 OZ's)still, and the handling is wonderful, needing serious amounts of abuse to make the rear end step out.
She only lets herself down on the bumpy/repaired/worn b roads where the bump steer becomes a bit of a pain.
BUT She growls like several angry lions, backpops like hell, and just gets the adrenaline rushing every time... which is what makes me come back for more:-)
I didn't want to compromise the ride too much ,which is why i went for mostly standard bushes. hell, anyway,there's less than 5mm thickness of rubber in the standard bushes, surely there can't be much movement over a bush 2" long could there?.
However! take her on the track and she behaves impeccably. i've got So2's all round on the standard wheels (8 x 15 OZ's)still, and the handling is wonderful, needing serious amounts of abuse to make the rear end step out.
She only lets herself down on the bumpy/repaired/worn b roads where the bump steer becomes a bit of a pain.
BUT She growls like several angry lions, backpops like hell, and just gets the adrenaline rushing every time... which is what makes me come back for more:-)
Edited by andy390 on Tuesday 17th October 21:56
Andy, I find the same. Mine has solid nylon bushes in the front wishbones, so I doubt it's play in the bushes that's causing the bumb steer. I am going to fit the steering column bearing mod to see if that helps. Have to say that at the moment it's one of the few things about the car I'm not totally happy with. Cheers Steve
Bump steer is usually down to the positioning of the steering rack relative to the wheel axis, check your front ride height before you do anything as the bump steer on mine was much reduced when I fitted std front springs. Also make sure the front anti-roll bar bushes (ones at the wheel end)are in good nick, as decent polyurethane ones again made a big difference to mine
Matt
Matt
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