Even Tories want to tax us for road use!
Discussion
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/arti
This is talking like a Labour DfT guy!
There is no place to hide or is there?
A true political party that defends drivers as a category? is too much to ask?
A67
This is talking like a Labour DfT guy!
There is no place to hide or is there?
A true political party that defends drivers as a category? is too much to ask?
A67
The argument that "We shouldn't build more lanes, because if we do they'll just fill up with more traffic" is idiocy of the highest order.
The population is growing, both naturally and through Government actions. The economy is expanding. More roads would accomodate the inevitable growth in demand and enable people to transport themselves in the manner that they prefer. (Oh, wait - I forgot - the UK isn't a democracy, is it?).
The imbeciles who would presume to rule our lives - do they really think that, given more road space, people will simply drive in circles 'round the M25 for the sheer fun of it?
But stay tuned. As sure as one cannot trust Ken Livingstone, road pricing is coming. The economists love it, for in theory it begets more efficient use of a limited resource.
The only question is whether satellite continuous speed monitoring of every vehicle will come with it, or follow on a while later.
The population is growing, both naturally and through Government actions. The economy is expanding. More roads would accomodate the inevitable growth in demand and enable people to transport themselves in the manner that they prefer. (Oh, wait - I forgot - the UK isn't a democracy, is it?).
The imbeciles who would presume to rule our lives - do they really think that, given more road space, people will simply drive in circles 'round the M25 for the sheer fun of it?
But stay tuned. As sure as one cannot trust Ken Livingstone, road pricing is coming. The economists love it, for in theory it begets more efficient use of a limited resource.
The only question is whether satellite continuous speed monitoring of every vehicle will come with it, or follow on a while later.
What the powers that be forget when they get on the environmental hobby horse and charge us for how many miles we drive and car taxes based on how efficient our car is that we already pay this...
We pay about 70% duty on fuel! If we are using our car we are paying for it. if we drive an uneconomical car we are paying even more for it.
We pay about 70% duty on fuel! If we are using our car we are paying for it. if we drive an uneconomical car we are paying even more for it.
justinp1 said:
We pay about 70% duty on fuel! If we are using our car we are paying for it. if we drive an uneconomical car we are paying even more for it.
Oooer justinp1, tax or duty rates are calculated as the percentage added to the base price.
Unleaded fuel tax and duty is 300%, 23p plus 69p taxes and duties and taxes on the tax.
Until everbody clubs together and undertakes major civil disobediance against this sort of thing then we will be shafted by whoever gets in power.
The apathy of the Brits is as much to blame as any government for the state that we find ourselves in today.
Even when there is a protest, it's a one-off - everyone loses interest after that - nothing comes out of it - look at the fuel protest a few years ago or the march against the War in Iraq with more than a million people taking part! Even the M4 protest was a one off - the scammers still deploy the vans on that stretch!
What is wrong with people?
The apathy of the Brits is as much to blame as any government for the state that we find ourselves in today.
Even when there is a protest, it's a one-off - everyone loses interest after that - nothing comes out of it - look at the fuel protest a few years ago or the march against the War in Iraq with more than a million people taking part! Even the M4 protest was a one off - the scammers still deploy the vans on that stretch!
What is wrong with people?
Edited by alphadog on Tuesday 10th October 07:58
The problem is that the tories have inherited a general public spun until they're dizzy. By public here I mean the kind of person not interested enough in anything other than family and work, plus two weeks holiday and a plasma tv. They won't look into things more deeply or get alternative perspectives in the same way an average PHer will.
The indoctrination that taxing and spending equals quality public services has gone on for so long people believe it. They get used to the crap services and as all brits do, they make another cup of tea. They also believe BLiar when he lies about possible school closures and hospital closures under the tories, even though he's the bastid that's closed quite a few already. How many community hospitals have been centralised and rationalised near you? There's no accounting for folk.
So Camoron has to find a means to excuse at least a minimum level of taxation, and he's always been a sucker for the green movement sicne his Eton days so given that the public are already brainwashed over the enviwonment as well, what better way to raise some of those taxes he needs to reassure gullible voters that he won't do those nasty things BLiar suggests?
With a bit of luck and a fair wind ... and we're mostly guessing here as nearly all the details are being withheld to stop nu labia from stealing conserve-a-tiv policies as they did before ... Camoron will live up to his promise not to be anti-car, not to try and cut down on car use but to use technological gains to appease the environ mentalists. Hopefully he'll get in and do as he says in repealing the UK's acceptance of the Human Wights Act and, with more luck, put parasite pillarboxgob out of a lot of work. Maybe even less red tape for businesses as Call Me Dave also promises in general terms to stem the tide of bull5h1t from Brussels.
OK the twonk has a windmill on his house and cycles to work while an environmentally unfriendly hybrid carries his change of clothes along behind him, but we can hope.
The indoctrination that taxing and spending equals quality public services has gone on for so long people believe it. They get used to the crap services and as all brits do, they make another cup of tea. They also believe BLiar when he lies about possible school closures and hospital closures under the tories, even though he's the bastid that's closed quite a few already. How many community hospitals have been centralised and rationalised near you? There's no accounting for folk.
So Camoron has to find a means to excuse at least a minimum level of taxation, and he's always been a sucker for the green movement sicne his Eton days so given that the public are already brainwashed over the enviwonment as well, what better way to raise some of those taxes he needs to reassure gullible voters that he won't do those nasty things BLiar suggests?
With a bit of luck and a fair wind ... and we're mostly guessing here as nearly all the details are being withheld to stop nu labia from stealing conserve-a-tiv policies as they did before ... Camoron will live up to his promise not to be anti-car, not to try and cut down on car use but to use technological gains to appease the environ mentalists. Hopefully he'll get in and do as he says in repealing the UK's acceptance of the Human Wights Act and, with more luck, put parasite pillarboxgob out of a lot of work. Maybe even less red tape for businesses as Call Me Dave also promises in general terms to stem the tide of bull5h1t from Brussels.
OK the twonk has a windmill on his house and cycles to work while an environmentally unfriendly hybrid carries his change of clothes along behind him, but we can hope.
turbobloke said:
OK the twonk has a windmill on his house and cycles to work while an environmentally unfriendly hybrid carries his change of clothes along behind him, but we can hope.
Can we ?
It seems to me that just as the Labour Party moved from
the left to the centre to gain votes, now the Tory
party, via Dave-no-policies, is moving from the right
to the centre to gain votes.
This leaves the UK like the USA, with two parties fighting
the central ground and hardly anything to seperate their
policies.
I think there is room in UK politics for a political
party occupying the ground that the Tory party used
to take up.
One of the disaffected right wingers in the current Tory
Party could lead it.
Let's not forget there are thirty million motorists
out there that aren't happy with the current situation.
flemke said:
The argument that "We shouldn't build more lanes, because if we do they'll just fill up with more traffic" is idiocy of the highest order.
The population is growing, both naturally and through Government actions. The economy is expanding. More roads would accomodate the inevitable growth in demand and enable people to transport themselves in the manner that they prefer. (Oh, wait - I forgot - the UK isn't a democracy, is it?).
The imbeciles who would presume to rule our lives - do they really think that, given more road space, people will simply drive in circles 'round the M25 for the sheer fun of it?
But stay tuned. As sure as one cannot trust Ken Livingstone, road pricing is coming. The economists love it, for in theory it begets more efficient use of a limited resource.
The only question is whether satellite continuous speed monitoring of every vehicle will come with it, or follow on a while later.
The population is growing, both naturally and through Government actions. The economy is expanding. More roads would accomodate the inevitable growth in demand and enable people to transport themselves in the manner that they prefer. (Oh, wait - I forgot - the UK isn't a democracy, is it?).
The imbeciles who would presume to rule our lives - do they really think that, given more road space, people will simply drive in circles 'round the M25 for the sheer fun of it?
But stay tuned. As sure as one cannot trust Ken Livingstone, road pricing is coming. The economists love it, for in theory it begets more efficient use of a limited resource.
The only question is whether satellite continuous speed monitoring of every vehicle will come with it, or follow on a while later.
This post, along with Turbobloke's, define the state of affairs with depressing accuracy.
A hoodwinked majority effectively oppressed by a barely contained rabble of bureaucratic commies, hippies and ex-commie hippies.
alphadog said:
Until everbody clubs together and undertakes major civil disobediance against this sort of thing then we will be shafted by whoever gets in power.
The apathy of the Brits is as much to blame as any government for the state that we find ourselves in today.
Even when there is a protest, it's a one-off - everyone loses interest after that - nothing comes out of it - look at the fuel protest a few years ago or the march against the War in Iraq with more than a million people taking part! Even the M4 protest was a one off - the scammers still deploy the vans on that stretch!
What is wrong with people?
The apathy of the Brits is as much to blame as any government for the state that we find ourselves in today.
Even when there is a protest, it's a one-off - everyone loses interest after that - nothing comes out of it - look at the fuel protest a few years ago or the march against the War in Iraq with more than a million people taking part! Even the M4 protest was a one off - the scammers still deploy the vans on that stretch!
What is wrong with people?
Edited by alphadog on Tuesday 10th October 07:58
We should take lessons from the French.
turbobloke said:
justinp1 said:
We pay about 70% duty on fuel! If we are using our car we are paying for it. if we drive an uneconomical car we are paying even more for it.
Oooer justinp1, tax or duty rates are calculated as the percentage added to the base price.
Unleaded fuel tax and duty is 300%, 23p plus 69p taxes and duties and taxes on the tax.
Yes of course you are right - what I was pointing out was 70% of what we spend on petrol is tax not fuel.
dcb said:
turbobloke said:
OK the twonk has a windmill on his house and cycles to work while an environmentally unfriendly hybrid carries his change of clothes along behind him, but we can hope.
Can we ?
It seems to me that just as the Labour Party moved from
the left to the centre to gain votes, now the Tory
party, via Dave-no-policies, is moving from the right
to the centre to gain votes.
This leaves the UK like the USA, with two parties fighting
the central ground and hardly anything to seperate their
policies.
I think there is room in UK politics for a political
party occupying the ground that the Tory party used
to take up.
One of the disaffected right wingers in the current Tory
Party could lead it.
Trouble is, that new party (or UKIP) would just be using up Tory votes, which would make another term under Labour more likely. Don't think I could bear that.
puggit said:
alphadog said:
Even the M4 protest was a one off
Because strong police pressure was brought to bear on the organiser...What if someone else (apparently unconnected) organised a similar protest elsewhere, I wonder?
There must be ways and means around intimidation from the government. It would be a lot easier to take if the politicians lead by example, but they don't. An example is the large pension and early retirement that a politician will enjoy, whilst the rest of us are being threatened with not being able to retire until 70!
justinp1 said:
turbobloke said:
justinp1 said:
We pay about 70% duty on fuel! If we are using our car we are paying for it. if we drive an uneconomical car we are paying even more for it.
Oooer justinp1, tax or duty rates are calculated as the percentage added to the base price.
Unleaded fuel tax and duty is 300%, 23p plus 69p taxes and duties and taxes on the tax.
Yes of course you are right - what I was pointing out was 70% of what we spend on petrol is tax not fuel.
Hypothetically speaking, of course.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff