RE: Fezza plots 4WD technology
Thursday 12th October 2006
Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano: soon with 4WD?Ferrari is in the throes of developing a four-wheel drive system, according to Italiaspeed.
Fezza plots 4WD technology
Insertable system avoids frictional losses
Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano: soon with 4WD?
Dubbed ‘insertable 4x4’, the aim is to remove the frictional drive-train losses that accrue from permanent 4WD -- although there's not much you can do about the extra weight it entails.
Ferrari reckons that it's created a setup "which is easy and cost effective to implement, free from the drawbacks described above and which at the same time allows for an increase in performance, stability and traction control in all grip conditions."
The Prancing Horse reckons it wants to make its cars usable in all conditions, including those when poor grip prevails. "Insertable four wheel drive allows the driver to decide whether to use rear-wheel drive or four-wheel drive", said Modena.
But, said Ferrari, drivers cannot always know about hazards such as sheet ice. So the default is for the car to run using RWD but the front wheels are connected via a second clutch that decouples them from the rear wheels most of the time.
The insertable transmission system transfers torque to the front wheels when a difference between the rotation speed of the front and rear wheels occurs -- effectively when the driving wheels slip. Additionally, there's a range of sensors that detect yaw and acceleration.
The system works with both front and mid-engined layouts. While there's no information about when, or even if, such a system is likely to form part of a Ferrari road car, it's clear that Fezza's taking a long hard look at four-wheel drive.
Maybe Ferrari MD Jean Todt is fed up of reading stories about Ferraris in high-speed crashes...
Discussion
Andrew D said:
I can't see it being standard, it's just too heavy, in which case it sounds awfully familiar; Carrera 2 vs. 4?
There's too much homogeneity in the supercar market these days. It used to be easy to define a particular marque by its engineering, but now they all seem to be playing for the same ground. Look at Aston Martin. A scant ten years ago they were utterly unique and totally British. Now they give the impression of being rather German Ferrari clones. And now it seems Ferrari are trying to be Porsche (if it goes in the F430.
Sounds like an interesting system though.
What I fail to see is how Ferrari can just ignore the inherant safety of a two wheel drive system - FRONT wheel drive - none of the issues of rear wheel drive, safe to use on low traction surfaces, none of the weight or cost of 4 wheel drive.....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
tony*t3 said:
What I fail to see is how Ferrari can just ignore the inherant safety of a two wheel drive system - FRONT wheel drive - none of the issues of rear wheel drive, safe to use on low traction surfaces, none of the weight or cost of 4 wheel drive.....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
Ferrari already have front wheel drive...just badge engineer a Fiat!...A few spoilers and scoops and joe public would be none the wiser...save a fortune on development!
tony*t3 said:
What I fail to see is how Ferrari can just ignore the inherant safety of a two wheel drive system - FRONT wheel drive - none of the issues of rear wheel drive, safe to use on low traction surfaces, none of the weight or cost of 4 wheel drive.....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
I really hope you are having a laugh...?
Performance car + 4WD don't go in my opinion, there's a lot to be said about the joys of delicate steering feel unpolluted by torque steer and other nasties. Not to mention the weight, packaging and efficiency losses.
I notice that the boss of Lamborghini has stated that all future super lambos will be RWD only. Possibly influenced by the Lambo non factory teams panning at Le Mans this year.
Al 450 said:
tony*t3 said:
What I fail to see is how Ferrari can just ignore the inherant safety of a two wheel drive system - FRONT wheel drive - none of the issues of rear wheel drive, safe to use on low traction surfaces, none of the weight or cost of 4 wheel drive.....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
I really hope you are having a laugh...?
Performance car + 4WD don't go in my opinion, there's a lot to be said about the joys of delicate steering feel unpolluted by torque steer and other nasties. Not to mention the weight, packaging and efficiency losses.
I notice that the boss of Lamborghini has stated that all future super lambos will be RWD only. Possibly influenced by the Lambo non factory teams panning at Le Mans this year.
Err.....I think he might have been.
johnny senna said:
Al 450 said:
tony*t3 said:
What I fail to see is how Ferrari can just ignore the inherant safety of a two wheel drive system - FRONT wheel drive - none of the issues of rear wheel drive, safe to use on low traction surfaces, none of the weight or cost of 4 wheel drive.....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
Come on Ferrari, the answer is obvious. Front Wheel drive is the future....
I really hope you are having a laugh...?
Performance car + 4WD don't go in my opinion, there's a lot to be said about the joys of delicate steering feel unpolluted by torque steer and other nasties. Not to mention the weight, packaging and efficiency losses.
I notice that the boss of Lamborghini has stated that all future super lambos will be RWD only. Possibly influenced by the Lambo non factory teams panning at Le Mans this year.
Err.....I think he might have been.
Oh I see, I'm am a bit naieve sometimes...
Maybe they could do a special Chav Enzo with FWD, viper stripes, stick on spoilers and enough room in the boot for some bangin' bass?
One obvious difference is that Haldex equipped car are front drivers that resort to the rear to help (usually when it's too late anyway)whereas this is about RWD being occasionnaly aided by some torque going to the front. So basically it would be exactly the opposite...
Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 12th October 23:12
Being that Ferrari will be using 4WD in F1 (with the regenerative braking) it might make sense for them to have parrallel programs with F1 and the road cars. It is hard to pin down the precise effects of 4wd as it appears to be very dependant on the type of system used and the vehicle.
For example Porsche 4wd is very simple in opperation, open diffs and viscodrives and appears to make their cars if anything slightly slower in the dry, Nissan, Subaru and Mitsubishi however use complicated active diffs with their 4wd systems and appear to be able to get significant performance imporvements out of their systems.
For example Porsche 4wd is very simple in opperation, open diffs and viscodrives and appears to make their cars if anything slightly slower in the dry, Nissan, Subaru and Mitsubishi however use complicated active diffs with their 4wd systems and appear to be able to get significant performance imporvements out of their systems.
nickfrog said:
One obvious difference is that Haldex equipped car are front drivers that resort to the rear to help (usually when oit's too help anyway)whereas this is about RWD being occasionnaly aided by some torque going to the front. So basically it would be exactly the opposite...
They'll just turn it round the other way.
Al 450 said:
I notice that the boss of Lamborghini has stated that all future super lambos will be RWD only. Possibly influenced by the Lambo non factory teams panning at Le Mans this year.
Probably due to purists saying a Ferrari is always more special because it's RWD only. Now if Ferrari are going the 4WD route, then Lambo won't need to change.
Personaly, I'm a fan of 4WD and drive a 4WD performance car. 4WD brings a wider audiance to a brand. Those who would hesitate to drive a RWD F430, would probably consider driving a 4WD version. Sale.
Twincam16 said:
Andrew D said:
I can't see it being standard, it's just too heavy, in which case it sounds awfully familiar; Carrera 2 vs. 4?
:
Look at Aston Martin. A scant ten years ago they were utterly unique and totally British. Now they give the impression of being rather German Ferrari clones.
German Ferrari clones?!?! Your world is totally different to mine! Must be crazy in your head, pink roads, blue trees, porches that appear to be swedish cadillac clones... who knows what else!
I rather like 4WD as I am not the greatest driver so my Subaru flatters me. I also drive a 2.8 Z3 but when it is a little damp my confidence is shot and its back to the scooby. I've only driven 2WD Porches and no Ferrari owner has let me play yet but for folks like me 4WD makes stuff more accessible.
[I caveat that I am about to go advanced race track driver training and my opinion may alter radically in a few weeks time!]
[I caveat that I am about to go advanced race track driver training and my opinion may alter radically in a few weeks time!]
Ooo! Computer-controlled adaptive 4WD that is RWD most of the time but that transfers torque to the front wheels based upon sensor input from ABS wheel rotation sensors, steering angle, accelerometers etc. How truly revolutionary!
My Skyline GT-R has that and it's a _1989_ model.
Come on Ferrari! How about some REVOLUTIONARY technology...
Fox
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My Skyline GT-R has that and it's a _1989_ model.
Come on Ferrari! How about some REVOLUTIONARY technology...
Fox
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Edited by neon_fox on Thursday 12th October 14:09
They could keep the normal setup RWD but add some front wheel inwheel elektro-engines...
they can be elektronicaly aded and also genarate the braking power into move power for the elektroinwheel motors...the wheels can work separat from eachother very safe when needed and could help to get and hold the power on the road?
like this car already in 1992! with inwheel power...
www.gaura.com/ev/hiros/98e-intro/index_e.html
or like this from that Lancer Evo car...
or this fantastic car remember 1994 so what stopped them...goverments? oilfirms?
www.cet.nau.edu/~formulaclub/
GTRene
they can be elektronicaly aded and also genarate the braking power into move power for the elektroinwheel motors...the wheels can work separat from eachother very safe when needed and could help to get and hold the power on the road?
like this car already in 1992! with inwheel power...
www.gaura.com/ev/hiros/98e-intro/index_e.html
or like this from that Lancer Evo car...
or this fantastic car remember 1994 so what stopped them...goverments? oilfirms?
www.cet.nau.edu/~formulaclub/
GTRene
Edited by GTRene on Thursday 12th October 14:52
I wonder if this is due to Ferrari sales being affected by Lamborghini fitting 4WD to their road cars.
With 500BHP or so to channel perhaps a number of potential buyers are going the Gallardo/Murcielago route rather than F430/599GTB as they feel it will be easier/safer to drive in anything but perfect conditions.
As BHP figures increase this seems to be happening more and more. Even the new 997GT3 has TC (and maybe even the RS).
Lets hope Ferrari make it a optional choice like they do with F1 transmission. Be interesting to see if 90% of Ferrari buyers go for 4WD option.
With 500BHP or so to channel perhaps a number of potential buyers are going the Gallardo/Murcielago route rather than F430/599GTB as they feel it will be easier/safer to drive in anything but perfect conditions.
As BHP figures increase this seems to be happening more and more. Even the new 997GT3 has TC (and maybe even the RS).
Lets hope Ferrari make it a optional choice like they do with F1 transmission. Be interesting to see if 90% of Ferrari buyers go for 4WD option.
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