playing with a sagaris in my gt3
Discussion
what do yah expect from a kit car...bloody horrible them TVR'S ..... wouldnt have one given,. may as well buy a ford mondeo !!!!
GT3 will eat the tvr and spit it out !!!!!!!!!
GT3 will eat the tvr and spit it out !!!!!!!!!
hobo said:
Think it would be a very close call upto around 140 at which point the GT3 would start pulling away. This is in a straight line though.
Through the twisties I wouldn't like to call it as they are both amazing.
Purely down to driver skill I'd think.
Through the twisties I wouldn't like to call it as they are both amazing.
Purely down to driver skill I'd think.
rods said:
Your GT3 will cane the sag,i'm pretty sure that at all the previous Vmax's,T350's and Sags struggle to reach 160mph.
178 according to Craig on this thread, what have the GT3's done again, low 170's I think
Not that I expect they were doing anything like these speeds where the upright rear wing of the Sag will have a serious detrimental effect, but would be less of an issue at slightly more sane speeds. Even if a Sag only puts out 350 it is still way up on power to weight - but go figure, if the Sag was at full pelt trying desperately to get away then I guess I have to trust that to be the case.
how does one know that by the way?
Sagaris is putting out 360bhp at present, although the earlier models were a little more powerful by all account.
As for saying 'I could have overtaken him but I'd have been carrying too much speed for the next corner'. Does this make any sense whatsoever ?
I mean, any car could probably overtake it if It didn't have to worry about making the corner. The fact is you couldn't overtake it so you weren't 'that' much quicker.
As for saying 'I could have overtaken him but I'd have been carrying too much speed for the next corner'. Does this make any sense whatsoever ?
I mean, any car could probably overtake it if It didn't have to worry about making the corner. The fact is you couldn't overtake it so you weren't 'that' much quicker.
Touching Cloth said:
rods said:
Your GT3 will cane the sag,i'm pretty sure that at all the previous Vmax's,T350's and Sags struggle to reach 160mph.
178 according to Craig on this thread, what have the GT3's done again, low 170's I think
Not that I expect they were doing anything like these speeds where the upright rear wing of the Sag will have a serious detrimental effect, but would be less of an issue at slightly more sane speeds. Even if a Sag only puts out 350 it is still way up on power to weight - but go figure, if the Sag was at full pelt trying desperately to get away then I guess I have to trust that to be the case.
how does one know that by the way?
Vmax 9 was the only time i think that we've had a Sagaris there 156 with bonnet issues.
Can't comment directly on GT3 versus Sagaris.
I can on a 997 Carrera S versus TVR T350 though, as I've had both.
At very high speeds the 911 feels more secure and hence you push it more.
On rainy roads it's the same thing, the 911 is more confidence inspiring.
On a country lane, I'd choose the Porsche.
On a dry dual carriageway though, at speeds up to 120mph or so, the TVR is considerably faster.
It is 318bhp / tonne - more than a 911 turbo power to weight and it feels it.
The Sagaris is even more and hence faster. They'll do 0-100mph in a little over 8 seconds - that is VERY fast. Don't forget that the 911 has far superior traction off the line too - making the TVR's 0-100 even more impressive.
If you "easily" took him, we can therefore assume he wasn't flat out, or there was a problem with his car (or nerve perhaps)
I can on a 997 Carrera S versus TVR T350 though, as I've had both.
At very high speeds the 911 feels more secure and hence you push it more.
On rainy roads it's the same thing, the 911 is more confidence inspiring.
On a country lane, I'd choose the Porsche.
On a dry dual carriageway though, at speeds up to 120mph or so, the TVR is considerably faster.
It is 318bhp / tonne - more than a 911 turbo power to weight and it feels it.
The Sagaris is even more and hence faster. They'll do 0-100mph in a little over 8 seconds - that is VERY fast. Don't forget that the 911 has far superior traction off the line too - making the TVR's 0-100 even more impressive.
If you "easily" took him, we can therefore assume he wasn't flat out, or there was a problem with his car (or nerve perhaps)
Well I have a MK2 GT3 and test drove the Sagaris at length as I was considering one. I would say there is very little in it really, and the 0-100 times of 8 seconds is hard to pull off so I would put that to one side. Most drivers will pull a better get away with the GT3 on more occasions, so I think 0-100 will be much the same, maybe a little nippier up to 120 in the Sag. I think over 120 the GT3 will be quicker and I think in the right hands the GT3 would also be quicker through the corners, but the Sagaris is a quick car and also handles better than any other TVR I have driven, though you do need to understand it like you do a GT3 to get speed from it.
The GT3 is a very quick car too and I don't think C2 and C4 owners appreciate just how much quicker they are when compared to a normal cooking Carrera. The numbers and stats don’t really do it justice….
The GT3 is a very quick car too and I don't think C2 and C4 owners appreciate just how much quicker they are when compared to a normal cooking Carrera. The numbers and stats don’t really do it justice….
[quote=sambaman]what do yah expect from a kit car...bloody horrible them TVR'S ..... wouldnt have one given,. may as well buy a ford mondeo !!!!
GT3 will eat the tvr and spit it out !!!!!!!!!
I can't hide the fact i love TVR, and would always have one over a 911 of any kind, but I can still look at a 911 and think they are great cars. As for the kit car bit, you must know of some very fast mondeos
GT3 will eat the tvr and spit it out !!!!!!!!!
I can't hide the fact i love TVR, and would always have one over a 911 of any kind, but I can still look at a 911 and think they are great cars. As for the kit car bit, you must know of some very fast mondeos 
I'm with LeeTVR.
I think half the point of being a car enthusiast is appreciating other cars - even if you don't necessarily want one.
TVRs appeal on a more emotional level than Porsche.
Being absolutely objective about every aspect of performance, it would be very difficult to argue that a Sagaris is a better car than a GT3.
The GT3 is one of the best cars ever made - no question.
That kind of misses the point though.
The uncompromising, in your face nature of TVRs is the root of their appeal.
I get very tired of the anti-TVR vitriol from people who have very rarely driven one, let alone owned one.
So a Lexus LS430 is more reliable, more comfortable, better equipped, more spacious and almost as fast as an Aston Martin DB9 - what does that prove?
We all know which we'd rather have.
The mere fact that we're on this forum means we think of cars as more than mere tools.
TVRs are fantastic fun. They're loud, lairy, slightly crazy and unbelievably addictive (hence the undying loyalty of many owners).
We should be supportive of any Company that has the bottle to be so single minded - not slag it off constantly.
I think half the point of being a car enthusiast is appreciating other cars - even if you don't necessarily want one.
TVRs appeal on a more emotional level than Porsche.
Being absolutely objective about every aspect of performance, it would be very difficult to argue that a Sagaris is a better car than a GT3.
The GT3 is one of the best cars ever made - no question.
That kind of misses the point though.
The uncompromising, in your face nature of TVRs is the root of their appeal.
I get very tired of the anti-TVR vitriol from people who have very rarely driven one, let alone owned one.
So a Lexus LS430 is more reliable, more comfortable, better equipped, more spacious and almost as fast as an Aston Martin DB9 - what does that prove?
We all know which we'd rather have.
The mere fact that we're on this forum means we think of cars as more than mere tools.
TVRs are fantastic fun. They're loud, lairy, slightly crazy and unbelievably addictive (hence the undying loyalty of many owners).
We should be supportive of any Company that has the bottle to be so single minded - not slag it off constantly.
Ive got the initial entry deleted also, so dont know what the chap said, however, it does rather help when you know what you are talking about. What horsepower Sag's are putting out is anywhere from 406-360 horses, every single one is different and yes they will differ that much, due to "who" built it, how well the unit was built, what components they had to hand at the time and what exhaust system is on the car. There are more than a few that have been slid, i.e fitted with small bore systems instead of the full large bore. Not to mention the initial build ones with the blue flame cans on that are down on power anyway. Of course then you have to throw into the mix what 'box he is running, standard or close ratio? What final drive? 3.46, 3.73 or 3.91. All of which make a very big difference to how he car goes oh and if we want to do ultimate x-x times how brutal anybody is with the clutch and gearbox. Oh and that's before we have cracked the 40C and 50C oil temps!
In general though a fully warmed up Sagaris will be quicker than a GT3 in a straight line in equal gears upto a silly speed. The real area a Sagaris has the edge over a GT3 performance wise is the mid range, where the car is simple astonishing. From 50/60ish upto 130ish the performance is fully in TT/Noble Mvarious territory, something with the best will in the world, a GT3 isnt, wasnt designed to be and Porsche would never claim. Handling wise, on the road at 8/10s level, there will be nothing in it, all other things being equal. Push harder than that and start getting to "tw@t limits" and yes as far as Im concerned anybody who pushes a car to their limits on a road is well into "driving like a tw@T" territory and the Sagaris short commings start to reveal themselves. The rear damping isnt perfect, it can get light on bumpy roads and you have to really know yourself and the car to stay on top of it and the lack of feel through the steering wheel is frankly sh1te. The Gt3 is better damped and ultimately the suspension is more sorted/better developed. The Gt3 also has proper aerodynamics, in that I trust Porsche has actually been near a wind tunnel, whereas I know TVR havent. Fortunately that area is being addressed and there a cpl of new aero packages available which actually work properly. In the twisties on public roads and with relatively equal drivers who arent insane, neither one would get away from the other, just as they wouldnt to be honest if one of them was in an Elise or a Boxster. Driving just doesnt allow that in the UK these days!
What a Sagaris does do though is ride better than a GT3 and by a quite considerable margin in my book.
On a track I suspect a GT3 would be quicker, ultimately it has just been better developed for it as standard cars.
In general though a fully warmed up Sagaris will be quicker than a GT3 in a straight line in equal gears upto a silly speed. The real area a Sagaris has the edge over a GT3 performance wise is the mid range, where the car is simple astonishing. From 50/60ish upto 130ish the performance is fully in TT/Noble Mvarious territory, something with the best will in the world, a GT3 isnt, wasnt designed to be and Porsche would never claim. Handling wise, on the road at 8/10s level, there will be nothing in it, all other things being equal. Push harder than that and start getting to "tw@t limits" and yes as far as Im concerned anybody who pushes a car to their limits on a road is well into "driving like a tw@T" territory and the Sagaris short commings start to reveal themselves. The rear damping isnt perfect, it can get light on bumpy roads and you have to really know yourself and the car to stay on top of it and the lack of feel through the steering wheel is frankly sh1te. The Gt3 is better damped and ultimately the suspension is more sorted/better developed. The Gt3 also has proper aerodynamics, in that I trust Porsche has actually been near a wind tunnel, whereas I know TVR havent. Fortunately that area is being addressed and there a cpl of new aero packages available which actually work properly. In the twisties on public roads and with relatively equal drivers who arent insane, neither one would get away from the other, just as they wouldnt to be honest if one of them was in an Elise or a Boxster. Driving just doesnt allow that in the UK these days!
What a Sagaris does do though is ride better than a GT3 and by a quite considerable margin in my book.
On a track I suspect a GT3 would be quicker, ultimately it has just been better developed for it as standard cars.
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