Discussion
I'm thinking about getting a laptop for my second year at uni. This year im in halls pretty near the library, lecture halls etc so ive been using my desktop quite easily. However, being in central london means next year when i move into private accomodation I won't have the luxury of popping back to my computer for notes etc. Thus im contemplating a laptop...
These are the questions i ask my fellow Pistonheadians (new word?):
1) Reliability? I don't really want a pc fcuking up an essay the night before for example. I've heard laptops are not as reliable compared to desktops, yet a flatmate bought a new desktop and it broke pretty damn quickly...
2) Price? Worth the extra for freedom of movement? (skint student budget remember!
)
3) I use digicams/camcorders so are laptops easy to upgrade with the relevant cards etc?
4) Brand? Heard DELL are the best...?
Has anyone had particularly good or bad experiences and any other pointers?
Many thanks!!!
Andy
These are the questions i ask my fellow Pistonheadians (new word?):
1) Reliability? I don't really want a pc fcuking up an essay the night before for example. I've heard laptops are not as reliable compared to desktops, yet a flatmate bought a new desktop and it broke pretty damn quickly...
2) Price? Worth the extra for freedom of movement? (skint student budget remember!
) 3) I use digicams/camcorders so are laptops easy to upgrade with the relevant cards etc?
4) Brand? Heard DELL are the best...?
Has anyone had particularly good or bad experiences and any other pointers?
Many thanks!!!
Andy
Okay were to start.
Laptops cannot really be compared to desktops. Everything is more more expensive and they are alot less flexible for adding extra stuff (if your lucky you'll get 2 PCMCIA slots which take expensive cards). No PCI or upgradeable CPU's, graphics etc.
However you will get lots of stuff built-in these days (screen, speakers, network - probably wireless and wired these days etc) and they are generally portable. Having said that if you want a light weight one you will pay for it. They are generally pretty reliable these days BUT make sure you get one with a decent warranty. If they break they ARE expensive to fix as most things require a new motherboard. It can often cost more than buying a new one.
If you just want a mobile, light weight note taking machine you might want to consider a PDA such as a Palm. Make your own choice as to OS and features you want but these are small, very light, reasonable battery life (very good compared to a laptop), sync with your desktop. Alot of them have some sort of handwriting recognition feature (often a special short hand that is easy to learn) that makes taking notes alot easier than typing.
Edited to say: Laptops are very good at what they do so don't get me wrong. However, on a student budget have a serious think about what you want it for. If you do decide on a laptop don't replace your desktop with it - use both and network them (network card probably in laptop. desktop cards cost less than a tenner and use a cross-over network cable to connect directly to each other. Should still keep costs under £10 and you get to backup your data onto both PC's and have the power/flexibility of the desktop with the mobile ability of the laptop).
>> Edited by icamm on Wednesday 12th March 19:02
Laptops cannot really be compared to desktops. Everything is more more expensive and they are alot less flexible for adding extra stuff (if your lucky you'll get 2 PCMCIA slots which take expensive cards). No PCI or upgradeable CPU's, graphics etc.
However you will get lots of stuff built-in these days (screen, speakers, network - probably wireless and wired these days etc) and they are generally portable. Having said that if you want a light weight one you will pay for it. They are generally pretty reliable these days BUT make sure you get one with a decent warranty. If they break they ARE expensive to fix as most things require a new motherboard. It can often cost more than buying a new one.
If you just want a mobile, light weight note taking machine you might want to consider a PDA such as a Palm. Make your own choice as to OS and features you want but these are small, very light, reasonable battery life (very good compared to a laptop), sync with your desktop. Alot of them have some sort of handwriting recognition feature (often a special short hand that is easy to learn) that makes taking notes alot easier than typing.
Edited to say: Laptops are very good at what they do so don't get me wrong. However, on a student budget have a serious think about what you want it for. If you do decide on a laptop don't replace your desktop with it - use both and network them (network card probably in laptop. desktop cards cost less than a tenner and use a cross-over network cable to connect directly to each other. Should still keep costs under £10 and you get to backup your data onto both PC's and have the power/flexibility of the desktop with the mobile ability of the laptop).
>> Edited by icamm on Wednesday 12th March 19:02
on the Mac front - Powerbooks are nice but expensive so probably not a great bet for a student budget.
The new iBooks are sturdy, reliable and well made. OS X is (in my experience) more reliable than Windows (of all flavours) - i.e. fewer crashes and more consistent behaviour.
An extra bonus is that Macs use lower power processors so battery life is much better than your average PC laptop.
Downsides?? Well if you want microsoft office (and most do) then it's expensive. On the PC side, well everyone knows someone with a copy they can 'borrow'....
Also the iBooks don't have monster processing power (no gigahertz here) so forget serious 3d games.
But as a lightweight, robust laptop for carrying about they take a LOT of beating. Do not underestimate how important weight and size is - if you have to carry it every day then you will end up hating a 'desktop replacement'... some of those Dells are ridiculously heavy.
The new iBooks are sturdy, reliable and well made. OS X is (in my experience) more reliable than Windows (of all flavours) - i.e. fewer crashes and more consistent behaviour.
An extra bonus is that Macs use lower power processors so battery life is much better than your average PC laptop.
Downsides?? Well if you want microsoft office (and most do) then it's expensive. On the PC side, well everyone knows someone with a copy they can 'borrow'....
Also the iBooks don't have monster processing power (no gigahertz here) so forget serious 3d games.
But as a lightweight, robust laptop for carrying about they take a LOT of beating. Do not underestimate how important weight and size is - if you have to carry it every day then you will end up hating a 'desktop replacement'... some of those Dells are ridiculously heavy.
I have a Dell laptop now and have had several in the past. They are pretty good. The build quality is certainly good, but they can be very heavy unless you start spending big money.
Dell has an Outlet Store on the website for returned / cancelled orders - there are often bargains to be had. It will never be as fast as a desktop, and you will need a proper keyboard if you want to do any serious typing. Depending upon where you live, you might want to consider that they are also much easier to steal than a desktop.
HTH
Dell has an Outlet Store on the website for returned / cancelled orders - there are often bargains to be had. It will never be as fast as a desktop, and you will need a proper keyboard if you want to do any serious typing. Depending upon where you live, you might want to consider that they are also much easier to steal than a desktop.
HTH
I've been using Dell laptops over the past 5 years and have had no hardware problems at all. The problems re adding functionality are already mentioned so ensure you know what spec you want before you invest. You'll need to have a way to back up your data - laptops are more likely to get lost/stolen etc or dropped than a desktop, so a Zip drive or CD-RW will be a must. The touchpads are usually a bit of a pain except in small doses so I generally use a regular mouse. I think a laptop with 2 USB's is essential.
A docking station makes life much easier and saves time unplugging and re-connecting individual leads from mouse, keyboard, monitor,speakers, power, printer, Palm accessories etc.
[I've got a Palm Tungsten and a superslim foldup keyboard that I use with it for taking notes in meetings or sitting on a plane. Easy to sync with the laptop and also recharge the Palm through one of the laptop's USB. I tried the graffiti method for writing on the screen but found it too slow.]
I have had excellent tech suport from Dell and have International next business day on-site service (around £50 per year) but have never had to use it.
I think my final thought on this is to get as much SDRAM as you can afford 256 minimum but double this if you can for best performance when using memory-grabbing applications.
Hutch
A docking station makes life much easier and saves time unplugging and re-connecting individual leads from mouse, keyboard, monitor,speakers, power, printer, Palm accessories etc.
[I've got a Palm Tungsten and a superslim foldup keyboard that I use with it for taking notes in meetings or sitting on a plane. Easy to sync with the laptop and also recharge the Palm through one of the laptop's USB. I tried the graffiti method for writing on the screen but found it too slow.]
I have had excellent tech suport from Dell and have International next business day on-site service (around £50 per year) but have never had to use it.
I think my final thought on this is to get as much SDRAM as you can afford 256 minimum but double this if you can for best performance when using memory-grabbing applications.
Hutch
I've used Dells for the last few years. Build quality is OK. Not ace, but not bad. Never had any component fail with them, but I doubt they'd withstand many impacts. They don't go in for wankdom features, which suits me fine. Certainly you get more bang for your buck with desktop hardware, but the Dell laptop I've currently got is my main PC for developing software, so its often got SQL Server, several development environments, a few browsers, Hearts and RealOne Player all running simultaneously ... and it is perfectly happy. You can also get some fantastic screens. Current one is 1600X1200 and is far better than any desktop monitor I've been able to find. Heavy? Very. But its the most foolproof way of getting an offsite backup out of the office so I lug it around in a backpack. Not too serious a compromise given its features, but then I'm not going to and from lectures every hour. If you can pick up a bargain one from their outlet store, then its definitely worth considering.
As a student you aren't going to be in the market for something like a Dell 8200 I wouldn't think - too much beer money - or are you students not as brassic as we are led to believe?
I've had one (Dell) for years - not an 8200 obviously - and they are pretty robust beasts, but can be VERY heavy. Dell outlet is a good source for nearly new (really new in a lot of cases), and may save you a few bob. There's always lots of second user stuff on ebay, just be careful. And avoid Dell 7000's, the screens fall off.
Expansion on any laptop will be limited, but generally if its got the features you want there's no need. OK, you won't be able to water cool it and put in neons and a case window, or the latest 3D graphics wonder, or slap in extra disks and a dvd writer, but WTF. It'll run Office, and you can get most of the addons as external USB devices if you need them.
Repairs may (will!) be pricier than for desktops - and on campus I'd go for some insurance to cover loss or breakage.
Make sure battery life will be good enough. Dells are good, as you can usually add a second battery by slotting out the CD drive. Go for a reasonable size screen (ie less than the 15", which will eat power) and be carefull about the processor speed, and you should be able to make the thing run all day on two batteries with power management enabled.
I've had one (Dell) for years - not an 8200 obviously - and they are pretty robust beasts, but can be VERY heavy. Dell outlet is a good source for nearly new (really new in a lot of cases), and may save you a few bob. There's always lots of second user stuff on ebay, just be careful. And avoid Dell 7000's, the screens fall off.
Expansion on any laptop will be limited, but generally if its got the features you want there's no need. OK, you won't be able to water cool it and put in neons and a case window, or the latest 3D graphics wonder, or slap in extra disks and a dvd writer, but WTF. It'll run Office, and you can get most of the addons as external USB devices if you need them.
Repairs may (will!) be pricier than for desktops - and on campus I'd go for some insurance to cover loss or breakage.
Make sure battery life will be good enough. Dells are good, as you can usually add a second battery by slotting out the CD drive. Go for a reasonable size screen (ie less than the 15", which will eat power) and be carefull about the processor speed, and you should be able to make the thing run all day on two batteries with power management enabled.
IMO forget the laptop option - to fragile, too easily lost, stolen trodden on, dropped down the escalator at Earls Court etc.. insurance for it won't be cheap either in light of your job dodger's living arrangements
In terms of value for money, which I'd presume you'd want, I'd suggest you work out a way to get your data between the two locations and use a desktop PC at each end.
If floppy disks don't have adequate capacity (does anyone still use them routinely?*) then such wonders as email, CD-RW, Zip disks and USB Solid State Disks can all make it the proverbial piece of casual urea to move your important data about in something that fits in you pocket. You could even upload any necessary files to a private area of web/ftp space.
IMO, Laptops are a luxury that are very difficult to justify in terms of value for money. Even the tiniest ones are a drag to lug around with you plug in every time you get somewhere.
That said, I have several
In terms of value for money, which I'd presume you'd want, I'd suggest you work out a way to get your data between the two locations and use a desktop PC at each end.
If floppy disks don't have adequate capacity (does anyone still use them routinely?*) then such wonders as email, CD-RW, Zip disks and USB Solid State Disks can all make it the proverbial piece of casual urea to move your important data about in something that fits in you pocket. You could even upload any necessary files to a private area of web/ftp space.
IMO, Laptops are a luxury that are very difficult to justify in terms of value for money. Even the tiniest ones are a drag to lug around with you plug in every time you get somewhere.
That said, I have several
Andy,
If you definately want a laptop, go for an Apple iBook. It will do all you want (inc video editing via firewire, iPhoto to handle stills) M$ Office is on special at the mo, and you get a discount for being in full time education. I actually don't think you will need office, as Apple works will do pretty much everything, and it is included with Mac OSX.
927GBP for a basic iBook (12.1 screen, 20Gb, CD only with extra 128Mb, 256 total) including M$ Office.
I have one of these and it is great, edit video, mange digital stills, and it *will* play 3d games, just at a lower framerate/res.
You can also, if you can find someone with a copy get a PS1 emulator that will run GT2 very well...
Mail me if you have any specific questions, or ask here
If you definately want a laptop, go for an Apple iBook. It will do all you want (inc video editing via firewire, iPhoto to handle stills) M$ Office is on special at the mo, and you get a discount for being in full time education. I actually don't think you will need office, as Apple works will do pretty much everything, and it is included with Mac OSX.
927GBP for a basic iBook (12.1 screen, 20Gb, CD only with extra 128Mb, 256 total) including M$ Office.
I have one of these and it is great, edit video, mange digital stills, and it *will* play 3d games, just at a lower framerate/res.
You can also, if you can find someone with a copy
get a PS1 emulator that will run GT2 very well... Mail me if you have any specific questions, or ask here
Hey. Me again.
I'm being pulled towards iMacs... I've got digital stills and video cameras but the current linkup with my pc is a bit
Are the iMac links and programs far superior than pc ones?
Also, my windows me is just taking the p!ss at the moment. When i shut down properly it comes up with a scan disc saying "improper shut down" when i start up again and when i minimise all windows the tool bar disappears and i have to ctrl, alt del then cancel to get it back. being a tech-head i like things to happen straight away. i can't stand things just messing up all the time :rantover:
If i kept my current desktop pc at home, could i use it as a backup? how easy are iMac to pc connections?
Thanks again for all your help!!!
Andy
I'm being pulled towards iMacs... I've got digital stills and video cameras but the current linkup with my pc is a bit
Are the iMac links and programs far superior than pc ones?
Also, my windows me is just taking the p!ss at the moment. When i shut down properly it comes up with a scan disc saying "improper shut down" when i start up again and when i minimise all windows the tool bar disappears and i have to ctrl, alt del then cancel to get it back. being a tech-head i like things to happen straight away. i can't stand things just messing up all the time :rantover:
If i kept my current desktop pc at home, could i use it as a backup? how easy are iMac to pc connections?
Thanks again for all your help!!!
Andy
Andy,
The programs to manage stills and video on the Macs are very good. I just plugged my stills camera into the USB and it fired up a download prog (not iPhoto, I had to configure that a tiny bit). Link the camcorder via firewire and iMovie will detect it and you control from there.
Linking to PCs should be easy.
I am no expert, just an IT bod fed up with shit PCs at work, so use a Mac (or two) at home, but I'll try and answer any questions you have.
Sparks
The programs to manage stills and video on the Macs are very good. I just plugged my stills camera into the USB and it fired up a download prog (not iPhoto, I had to configure that a tiny bit). Link the camcorder via firewire and iMovie will detect it and you control from there.
Linking to PCs should be easy.
I am no expert, just an IT bod fed up with shit PCs at work, so use a Mac (or two
) at home, but I'll try and answer any questions you have. Sparks
My laptop is running XP and stills and video is very easy indeed, sounds the same as the imac in terms of performance.
The ME sounds like it is hanging on shut down, this can happen, you need to run a program to check registries etc. If you ctrl/alt/del you will get this improper shut down and scandisk happen, because a reboot is an improper shutdown.
The ME sounds like it is hanging on shut down, this can happen, you need to run a program to check registries etc. If you ctrl/alt/del you will get this improper shut down and scandisk happen, because a reboot is an improper shutdown.
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