NIP - but don't know who was driving
Discussion
After my fun and games on Friday, the cherry on the birthday cake arrived in the post yesterday in the form of an NIP for an alleged speeding offence (Camera: exceeding the 30mph limit) earlier the same day 
The problems is, from the information supplied in the NIP, I don't know who was driving at the time: it could either have been me or the missus. The place the car was allegedly speeding is just along the road from my wife's work and we nearly always go into work together and drop each other at work on the way, often swapping over driving duties at the drop-off point.
On this morning the missus drove into work with me as the passenger. After getting to her work I then took the car on to my work. This could have been any time between 8.15 and 8.45am. The time on the NIP is 8.37. Both legs of the journey used the same road on which the offence took place.
So, do I have any hope here trying to explain this to the authorities, or am I on a hiding to nowhere? Without further information I cannot supply the information they are demanding and making a guess is just not good enough - after all making a false statement is in itself an offence for which I could be prosecuted
Mr Rock meet Mr Hard-Place...
The problems is, from the information supplied in the NIP, I don't know who was driving at the time: it could either have been me or the missus. The place the car was allegedly speeding is just along the road from my wife's work and we nearly always go into work together and drop each other at work on the way, often swapping over driving duties at the drop-off point.
On this morning the missus drove into work with me as the passenger. After getting to her work I then took the car on to my work. This could have been any time between 8.15 and 8.45am. The time on the NIP is 8.37. Both legs of the journey used the same road on which the offence took place.
So, do I have any hope here trying to explain this to the authorities, or am I on a hiding to nowhere? Without further information I cannot supply the information they are demanding and making a guess is just not good enough - after all making a false statement is in itself an offence for which I could be prosecuted
Mr Rock meet Mr Hard-Place...
Write back saying that you unsure as to who was the driver. You can mitigate this by saying it could be one of two people - yourself and your wife.
Ask for the photographic evidence to assist you in determining who the driver was.
That way
1) You are being honest.
2) If the pic clearly show who the driver is then the problem is solved.
Ask for the photographic evidence to assist you in determining who the driver was.
That way
1) You are being honest.
2) If the pic clearly show who the driver is then the problem is solved.
Wriute back saying you don't know who was driving but in order to comply say it was the both of you. Then their stuffed. Or being more sensible say you don't know and take your partner to court as your witness. I think the charges will be dismissed but you both have to go to court, bind.
Boosted LS1 said: Wriute back saying you don't know who was driving but in order to comply say it was the both of you. Then their stuffed. Or being more sensible say you don't know and take your partner to court as your witness. I think the charges will be dismissed but you both have to go to court, bind.
You'll each get £30 fine and 1.5 points
agent006 said:
Boosted LS1 said: Wriute back saying you don't know who was driving but in order to comply say it was the both of you. Then their stuffed. Or being more sensible say you don't know and take your partner to court as your witness. I think the charges will be dismissed but you both have to go to court, bind.
You'll each get £30 fine and 1.5 points
no you will not if you got balls.
two peeps cannot get done for driving at the same time
but as madcop will say if you dont doit right you be in the brown stuff
for other shit done right it works every time.
The brun round the courner and jump out and sit ont the wall trick still works.
Think I'll have to go down the letter writing route to ask to see the evidence so I can determine which of us gets stung (and just hope the driver's face can't be seen 
)
TheLemming said: Sorry for the rather vague advice, but wasnt there something in law that prevents the courts reqiring someone to incriminate a spouse?
Or am I completely wrong?
Competence and compellability are the processes you are refering to.
This is nothing to do with incriminating your spouse. It is about whether the prosecution authority can compel someone to give evidence against their spouse in a trial or whether they are competent in law to do so.
Section 80 PACE Act 1984 covers this.
Generally there is a rule in English law which states that all witnesses are competent and all competent witnesses are compellable.
There are number of exceptins to the rule.
The accused
Spouses
Children
Defective intelligence
Other special groups. (The Sovereign and Heads of state who are competent but not compellable)
Spouses are as follows.
A spouse (other than husband and wife jointly charged)is competent to give evidence on behalf of the prosecution.
In the case of NIP no one has been charged so there is no conflict of competence.
A spouse is only compellable to give evidence on behalf of the prosecution (unless jointly charged) when
1.the offence charged involves an assault on, injury or threat of injury to the wife, husband or accused or
2. the offence charged involves an assault on or injury to a person who at the material time is under 16 years of age or
3. the offence charged is a sexual offence alleged to have been committed in respect of a person who at the mateial time was under 16 years of age or
4. In the case of aiding and abetting, counsel or procuring or inciting the commission of any of the above offences.
A spouse is competent and compellable to give evidence on behalf of the accused unless jointly charged.
A spouse is competent to give evidenc on behalf of any co-accused
If you can fit the signing of a section 172 notice into those circumstances, then you may be onto a winner.
My feelings are that the Section 172 notice is not a charge so therefore the demand for the information does not breach the rules on competence and compellability in these circumstances.
These rules are about giving evidence and being compelled to do so by the court one there. They are not about passsing information which may incriminate your spouse.
Once you have been charged and are in fornt of a court though, unless the above rules do not apply to the offence you have been charged with, then spouses are not compellable to give evidence against each other.
Speeding does not come in the list so the prosecution could not compel a spouse who has informed on their partner to give that evidence in court. They would be however competent to do so.
madcop said:
TheLemming said: Sorry for the rather vague advice, but wasnt there something in law that prevents the courts reqiring someone to incriminate a spouse?
Or am I completely wrong?
Competence and compellability are the processes you are refering to.
This is nothing to do with incriminating your spouse. It is about whether the prosecution authority can compel someone to give evidence against their spouse in a trial or whether they are competent in law to do so.
Section 80 PACE Act 1984 covers this.
Generally there is a rule in English law which states that all witnesses are competent and all competent witnesses are compellable.
There are number of exceptins to the rule.
The accused
Spouses
Children
Defective intelligence
Other special groups. (The Sovereign and Heads of state who are competent but not compellable)
Spouses are as follows.
A spouse (other than husband and wife jointly charged)is competent to give evidence on behalf of the prosecution.
In the case of NIP no one has been charged so there is no conflict of competence.
A spouse is only compellable to give evidence on behalf of the prosecution (unless jointly charged) when
1.the offence charged involves an assault on, injury or threat of injury to the wife, husband or accused or
2. the offence charged involves an assault on or injury to a person who at the material time is under 16 years of age or
3. the offence charged is a sexual offence alleged to have been committed in respect of a person who at the mateial time was under 16 years of age or
4. In the case of aiding and abetting, counsel or procuring or inciting the commission of any of the above offences.
A spouse is competent and compellable to give evidence on behalf of the accused unless jointly charged.
A spouse is competent to give evidenc on behalf of any co-accused
If you can fit the signing of a section 172 notice into those circumstances, then you may be onto a winner.
My feelings are that the Section 172 notice is not a charge so therefore the demand for the information does not breach the rules on competence and compellability in these circumstances.
These rules are about giving evidence and being compelled to do so by the court one there. They are not about passsing information which may incriminate your spouse.
Once you have been charged and are in fornt of a court though, unless the above rules do not apply to the offence you have been charged with, then spouses are not compellable to give evidence against each other.
Speeding does not come in the list so the prosecution could not compel a spouse who has informed on their partner to give that evidence in court. They would be however competent to do so.
so in simple terms say she was driving then she say he was driving .
when at cout keep both gobs shut.
lol
cant do both of em.
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