Are "convoys" illegal?
Discussion
Forgive me if you've covered this before - a search of the past month shows nothing - but there is a letter in this month's Sprint saying the police now regard a "convoy" of cars illegal!!
Can that be true? And on what grounds? that would outlaw, for example, the Surrey runs, and any group of us all going together somewhere - pie and pint, etc etc.
Can that be true? And on what grounds? that would outlaw, for example, the Surrey runs, and any group of us all going together somewhere - pie and pint, etc etc.
Search a little further back
www.pistonheads.net/gassing/topic.asp?t=18510&f=23&h=0&hw=convoys
I think the issue is regading MSA registered car clubs rather than a group of individuals
Its probably a minefield
davidy
www.pistonheads.net/gassing/topic.asp?t=18510&f=23&h=0&hw=convoys
I think the issue is regading MSA registered car clubs rather than a group of individuals
Its probably a minefield
davidy
Think about it. Me, my brother, my sister,and our respective families, decide to meet at our house and go for a pic-nic for the day to the coast so the kids can paddle. 3 cars needed to get everyone there and we all follow each other. CONVOY?
, Illegal? 
As far as I am aware it is not illegal to convoy. It is virtually impossible to keep everyone together unless it is marshalled properly by outriders on motorcycles or those in the convoy commit offences to enable the convoy to keep together.
The army often convoy on their way to excersises and when doing so, usually do not exceed 50mph on motorways. They do not attempt to stop others getting in between and do not commit offences to keep together. If the convoy splits then so be it.
You will not get into trouble if you arrange a convoy and you are completely sensible about it.
If you need to do it, then you have to have some basic rules. A good route plan coppied for everyone and a mid point RV so that you can re-group between a reasonable time period for those that get caught in traffic or have other logistical problems.
Car treasure hunts are a form of convoy and are not illegal either.
If you intend to organise one, then do it properly, have someone who is prepared to be 'the leader' and explain 'the rules' to everyone before everyone sets off.
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 14th March 11:13
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 14th March 11:15
, Illegal? As far as I am aware it is not illegal to convoy. It is virtually impossible to keep everyone together unless it is marshalled properly by outriders on motorcycles or those in the convoy commit offences to enable the convoy to keep together.
The army often convoy on their way to excersises and when doing so, usually do not exceed 50mph on motorways. They do not attempt to stop others getting in between and do not commit offences to keep together. If the convoy splits then so be it.
You will not get into trouble if you arrange a convoy and you are completely sensible about it.
If you need to do it, then you have to have some basic rules. A good route plan coppied for everyone and a mid point RV so that you can re-group between a reasonable time period for those that get caught in traffic or have other logistical problems.
Car treasure hunts are a form of convoy and are not illegal either.
If you intend to organise one, then do it properly, have someone who is prepared to be 'the leader' and explain 'the rules' to everyone before everyone sets off.
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 14th March 11:13
>> Edited by madcop on Friday 14th March 11:15
Presumably a group of car enthusiasts can create a nuicance just like any other group of people (or one person on his/her own for that matter) and if such a group was causing a nuicance, any member of the publi would have just cause for complaining to the police?
This being the case - would 15 TVRs blocking up the High Street of a small town or making a noise in a residential area (pub carpark) be a problem?
I'm sure Major Pembleton-AntiOptimax would have something to say. But would anyone (police) care?
This being the case - would 15 TVRs blocking up the High Street of a small town or making a noise in a residential area (pub carpark) be a problem?
I'm sure Major Pembleton-AntiOptimax would have something to say. But would anyone (police) care?
Madcop
You may well be right about Convoys, but I believe that if you are organising one on behalf of an MSA registered Car Club then there are certain/rules guidelines that should be followed. These may not be mandatory but are certainly courteous.
Did you read or re-read the original thread (details posted in my earlier reply).
I and many others would be very interested in your comments.
davidy
You may well be right about Convoys, but I believe that if you are organising one on behalf of an MSA registered Car Club then there are certain/rules guidelines that should be followed. These may not be mandatory but are certainly courteous.
Did you read or re-read the original thread (details posted in my earlier reply).
I and many others would be very interested in your comments.
davidy
Thank you for posting on this, madcop, your eminently sensible views are what I would hope to hear from the BiB.
I re-read the earlier thread, davidy, and it sounded as though the blue book's rules on 12 cars was about an "event" ie timed rally or similar, so presumably this would not apply to a non-timed "group drive" such as the convoy due to take place this weekend. However, I don't have a copy myself so I can't be sure.
(Oh no, because of Mel & my warped sense of humour I've just visualised a funeral cortege of old MGs and TR2s razzing throught the middle of town, timed by blokes in tall black silk hats with stopwatches...
I re-read the earlier thread, davidy, and it sounded as though the blue book's rules on 12 cars was about an "event" ie timed rally or similar, so presumably this would not apply to a non-timed "group drive" such as the convoy due to take place this weekend. However, I don't have a copy myself so I can't be sure.
(Oh no, because of Mel & my warped sense of humour I've just visualised a funeral cortege of old MGs and TR2s razzing throught the middle of town, timed by blokes in tall black silk hats with stopwatches...
Hi davidy
I have looked through all the relevant material that I can find and I cannot find any regulations which can cover the type of convoy that is being referred to in this thread. PH or any other impromptu car club meet are not as far a I am aware covered by MSA regulation.
If you think about convoys, what about those convoys of vehicles that are not as such members of a particular group who are travelling together to get to specific destination.
An example of this would be traffic attending a specific event such as the British Grand Prix or a Military airshow. Convoys of many vehicles will at some stage converge, not because they know each other and have similar types of vehicles, but because they have a common interest in attending the specific location.
In such instances, roads are marshalled by Police officers because of the huge numbers of vehicles that attend the events and not to do so would be condusive to major grid lock.
They are however convoys travelling to a specific function or venue and other than local traffic regulations which may be applied such as the one way system which is activated around the roads of Ascot Racecourse during the Royal meeting in June to facilitate the movement of large amounts of traffic into and around the meeting, there would be no such regulation or requirement to have any form of such marshalling to facilitate the movement of even 100 Porche or TVR cars that were travelling together to a pre arranged meeting point.
The only thing that you need to be if you decide to participate in an event such as this is to be sensible These cars by their very nature will attract attention. Anyone participating that attracts extra attention because of the way they are misbehaving may well spoil the day for everyone.
I remember about 15 years ago when on 'T' Div, we got wind of such a convoy attempting to do 'the ring' (M25) via internet discussion groups on a particular Sunday morning. They were a Ferrari club of some sort and very quickly the M25 was deployed with VASCAR uniits from Essex, Herts,TVP, Met,Surrey and Kent.
No one in a Ferrari managed to get the record for the shortest time around 'the ring'. Many picked up section 172 notices. If they had just been driving around the M25 in an ordinary sensible fashion I am sure they would have been left well alone.
I have looked through all the relevant material that I can find and I cannot find any regulations which can cover the type of convoy that is being referred to in this thread. PH or any other impromptu car club meet are not as far a I am aware covered by MSA regulation.
If you think about convoys, what about those convoys of vehicles that are not as such members of a particular group who are travelling together to get to specific destination.
An example of this would be traffic attending a specific event such as the British Grand Prix or a Military airshow. Convoys of many vehicles will at some stage converge, not because they know each other and have similar types of vehicles, but because they have a common interest in attending the specific location.
In such instances, roads are marshalled by Police officers because of the huge numbers of vehicles that attend the events and not to do so would be condusive to major grid lock.
They are however convoys travelling to a specific function or venue and other than local traffic regulations which may be applied such as the one way system which is activated around the roads of Ascot Racecourse during the Royal meeting in June to facilitate the movement of large amounts of traffic into and around the meeting, there would be no such regulation or requirement to have any form of such marshalling to facilitate the movement of even 100 Porche or TVR cars that were travelling together to a pre arranged meeting point.
The only thing that you need to be if you decide to participate in an event such as this is to be sensible These cars by their very nature will attract attention. Anyone participating that attracts extra attention because of the way they are misbehaving may well spoil the day for everyone.
I remember about 15 years ago when on 'T' Div, we got wind of such a convoy attempting to do 'the ring' (M25) via internet discussion groups on a particular Sunday morning. They were a Ferrari club of some sort and very quickly the M25 was deployed with VASCAR uniits from Essex, Herts,TVP, Met,Surrey and Kent.
No one in a Ferrari managed to get the record for the shortest time around 'the ring'. Many picked up section 172 notices. If they had just been driving around the M25 in an ordinary sensible fashion I am sure they would have been left well alone.
smeagol said: Madcop I thought car treasure hunts were made illegal with the Criminal Justice Act (I belive they used the argument that is was a competative motor sport and tacked onto the anti-travler laws raves etc.) Could you confirm that this is not the case.
No nothing like it. Anti rave/traveller laws are to do with residing on land as trespassers and causing a nuisance. If the Police can form a convoy of such people and fcuk them off out of it, then they will because both pieces of legislation have that power within them. Police have the power to give these people a direction to leave the land. With raves they cannot return for 7 days as there is then a power of arrest within that time and with travellers etc, it is 3 months.
Nothing pleases the police more than a convoy of 60 caravans heading away from their Police area. It is positively encouraged
If you take it to an extreme, then the M4 on everyday in the working week and sometimes the weekends too is a convoy. That is not illegal (as far as I am aware
until you get into central London and do not pay Kens charge 
) >> Edited by madcop on Saturday 15th March 10:02
Madcop - Cheers 
There are the first definitive statements I've read and it's great to know what the law is and how it is likely to be applied.
We are currently planning an 80-120 TVR meet which should all be arriving in small(ish) convoys spread over a couple of hours. Is there anything we need to consider besides the venue itself ?
Thanks in advance - Duncan
There are the first definitive statements I've read and it's great to know what the law is and how it is likely to be applied.
We are currently planning an 80-120 TVR meet which should all be arriving in small(ish) convoys spread over a couple of hours. Is there anything we need to consider besides the venue itself ?
Thanks in advance - Duncan
Nacnud said: Madcop - Cheers
There are the first definitive statements I've read and it's great to know what the law is and how it is likely to be applied.
We are currently planning an 80-120 TVR meet which should all be arriving in small(ish) convoys spread over a couple of hours. Is there anything we need to consider besides the venue itself ?
Thanks in advance - Duncan
I don't think so. Just be aware that any sillyness may attract the sort of attention that you will not necessarily want. As long as the venue is aware and can cope with the number of cars involved, I don't think there will be any problems.
I understand there were some shinnanigans at the VW 'last before one meet' when a Cerbera driver embarassed himself outside Maranellos on the A30. That is the sort of thing that will not do you any favours.
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