Headlight upgrade?

[owendobson]

I have read about headlight upgrades from the standard fit (2000 450 on W Reg) - are there different options? What is your advice & what is involved (ballpark cost?)? Many thanks. Owen

[e2djh]

Hi, I got gas discharge job done at Racing Green. Absolutely brilliant (pun intended ) Great night visibilty now, and they give a "blue" white, if you know what i mean. They did the job in a couple of hours, and it cost about £500 i think.

[owendobson]

Many thanks - very interesting. Couple of things slightly bother me - I have read a bit about the lights needing to have self levelling and washer mechanisms fitted to be road legal when retro-fitting...did Racing Green discuss any of this with you? Also, did they mention any MOT issues? Thanks. Owen

[e2djh]

No worries in that department. All legal, no discussion about needing washers and self-levelling stuff, and i certainly don't expect to have issues with MOT. Why not give them a call, i'm sure they will put your mind at rest, you will find their numbers here somewhere, www.racinggreentvr.com/ and ask for Martin - he's a good chap.

I'm in Crowthorne, Berks, You are welcome to pop over and have a look at them if you like.
I have also read on here that you can simply buy and fit more powerful bulbs. Have a look at this thread:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=305291&f=8&h=0&hw=headlight
Good luck

[owendobson]

Thanks for your help. Am taking the car down to APM Automotive on Monday - will ask Andy his opinion and if I think that gas is the way forward...I would certainly appreciate calling over to Crowthorne to see yours. Regards.

[david beer]

"Legal HID kits", i bet you didnt get a piece of paper saying that your insurance company, or more importantly, other insurance companies would recognise them as legal. Been there and walked away. Of course if the law has changed, that would be great, you can not have too much light.

[owendobson]

David - have sent you an e-mail on this. Thanks, Owen

[TVR keith]

Owen,
you might find this website interesting
www.hids4u.co.uk

[e2djh]

david beer said:

"Legal HID kits", i bet you didnt get a piece of paper saying that your insurance company, or more importantly, other insurance companies would recognise them as legal. Been there and walked away. Of course if the law has changed, that would be great, you can not have too much light.

Not with you old chap, care to expand? If you have fact regarding the legality of these, it would be useful if you could share it.
Many thanks

[-JUT-]

With regards to the legality, I don't think they are illegal on a car of a given age, can't remember specifically how old, think it's 2000 or earlier. The law about headlamp washers etc was only brought into force as they became more common as a factory fit option, on older cars I do not believe they are required - that's not to say it'll always be this way.

I am curious though - for £500, did you actually get new headlamps, or just HID bulbs fitted in your exisiting lamps? Strikes me as a waste of money to pay £500 just to upgrade the bulbs to HID, if you're sticking with the original headlamps. Why? Because at 5 or more years old, the lenses will be chipped, and may well be dirty inside, and even if they are not, headlamp refelctors get dull and dirty with age, especially if the rubber boots on the back are missing (like on mine) or have not been put on properly.

I may be wrong here, and correct me if I am, but the Chimaera takes the same 7 inch headlamps as a mini and a variety of other cars - so when spending £500 on a xenon upgrade, I would hope that you'd get new lamps as they are only £30 a pair including new boots for the back etc.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WIPAC-HEADLAMP-

Also, I'm tempted by a pair of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Crystal-Clear-R

Matched with a set of Osram Silverstars they should offer a massive improvement over the dim and dirty lamps I'm running at the moment. For anybody who wants to go down the HID route though, there is an eBay seller who sells an H4 kit for about £200 and offers a 3 year guarantee on all parts - apparently it only takes an hour or so to fit as well - sounds like a bargain and one I'd probably go for if I didn't need to repair/replace my soft top first :-(

PS for the chavs out there, you can now get Angel Eye lamps for your Chimmy - if you really want to.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl

[owendobson]

Well, thanks very much for all the advice...I will report back on what I end up doing. Owen

[e2djh]

-JUT- said:

I am curious though - for £500, did you actually get new headlamps, or just HID bulbs fitted in your exisiting lamps? Strikes me as a waste of money to pay £500 just to upgrade the bulbs to HID, if you're sticking with the original headlamps. Why? Because at 5 or more years old, the lenses will be chipped, and may well be dirty inside, and even if they are not, headlamp refelctors get dull and dirty with age, especially if the rubber boots on the back are missing (like on mine) or have not been put on properly.

Firstly, i'm delighted with the outcome, so for me it is money well spent
They replaced the headlight lenses (one was broken anyway which is what prompted me to get it done), checked the relectors, stuck in some new electrics to cope with the additional power required to get them powered up and upgraded the fuses.

I'm sure if you give Racing Green a call they will tell you what the upgrades consist of, as i'm sure you can tell i'm not the DIY type, but each to their own

[david beer]

I will try and find the details of how they are not legal, forgot it when my supplier of "legal bulbs" told me not to sell the HID kits. They of course draw less currnt so the wiring is more than ok. Right off to Google HID

[e2djh]

david beer said:

I will try and find the details of how they are not legal, forgot it when my supplier of "legal bulbs" told me not to sell the HID kits. They of course draw less currnt so the wiring is more than ok. Right off to Google HID

Thanks David, that would be most interesting.
I notice you refer to HID, and that they draw less current. Mine were referred to as "gas discharge", and they definately had to upgrade the fuses and wiring due to them drawing a greater "surge" of current when firing up. So, are HID and gas discharge two different things?

Edited by e2djh on Sunday 29th October 19:47

[owendobson]

My understanding, from all that I have read, is that HID and gas discharge are one and the same. Re the legal position, there is a very good thread on the Tyresmoke forum that explains the legal position (I called the Dept of Transport today 0207 944 8300 - very helpful - and they confirmed that the situation explained in the thread remains the current legal position):

[url]www.tyresmoke.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=964801[/url]

I have to say that there is a lot of conflicting advice from kit sippliers etc...but the DoT advice seems to be unequivocal...unless the retro fit has auto self levelling and cleaning to exactly the same EC spec as fitted to new cars it is not legal in UK. I don't have the confidence to go ahead...yet!

[-JUT-]

e2djh said:

I notice you refer to HID, and that they draw less current. Mine were referred to as "gas discharge", and they definately had to upgrade the fuses and wiring due to them drawing a greater "surge" of current when firing up. So, are HID and gas discharge two different things?

HID and gas discharge are the same thing. They do draw less current when operating, but operate at a much higher voltage (approx 50,000 volts if memory serves me) which is why you need ballast resistors. It probably follows that the units draw a lot of current when first turned on (hence why they take a second or two to reach full brightness) but draw less once they are operational.

[-JUT-]

e2djh said:

Firstly, i'm delighted with the outcome, so for me it is money well spent
They replaced the headlight lenses (one was broken anyway which is what prompted me to get it done), checked the relectors, stuck in some new electrics to cope with the additional power required to get them powered up and upgraded the fuses.

I'm sure if you give Racing Green a call they will tell you what the upgrades consist of, as i'm sure you can tell i'm not the DIY type, but each to their own

I'm not doubting the effectiveness of xenons - I paid extra as a cost option on my last car, and I have regular use of an A6 that has them and IMO has the best lights of any car I've ever driven. It's just that if the lamp units are £30 - £40 a pair, and if I was paying someone £500 to convert to HID & that didn't include new lamp units, I'd pay the extra (or supply my own lamps) and ask them to fit them too, as it's not a lot of extra money to get the maximum benefit out of your purchase. I'm sure HIDs in the existing lamps make a huge difference on their own, but with new lamp units, the improvement should be even greater.

[Touching Cloth]

Excuse and interloper from the Cerb forum but have an interest in this. Have been considering an upgrade since witnessing David's upgraded lights on a tunnel run, I can confirm that they are a vast improvement and are seriously bright.

Out of interest I also not that Jools at Track Car sells kits for conversion.

http://trackcarsolutions.net/shop/ind

Assuming the same sort of kit is being used, the prices seem to validate the £500 David paid when you add in the labour of a couple of hours fitting etc. Interestingly there is a note on these kits about validity and whilst Jools would appear to think they are legal, he still sells them as being for "off road" use only until it is clarified clearly once and for all.

Edited by Touching Cloth on Monday 30th October 12:11

[-JUT-]

Price keeps falling... £150 with 3 year warranty

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XENON-HID-CONVE

At that price, I'm very tempted - could get new crystal lamps and xenons for £200 and should have cracking night time vision...

[derbygreg]

i had HIDs on my old Accord Type R and they werent all that great... especially when a bulb goes!£!

The real problem i believe with the Tiv headlights is that they are not properly sealed and loads of cack gets in there... im currently looking to replace the unit with a sealed crystal unit and powerfull H4 Xenon bulbs... should look and perform much better...