Red light camera

[barry_j]

If it was raining and you were unable to stop before the traffic lights but came to a stop just after them and didnt actually cross the junction could you contest the penalty even though you passed the traffic lights and set the camera off? This happened to my brother and I'm not sure if he has a case to appeal.

[gorvid]

I'm guessing the weather won't make much of a defence....

Drive to the conditions..??

[vonhosen]

You commit the offence crossing the line even if you don't cross the junction.

[barry_j]

gorvid said:

I'm guessing the weather won't make much of a defence....

even if he actually came to a stop and didnt cross the junction?

[gorvid]

barry_j said:

gorvid said:

I'm guessing the weather won't make much of a defence....

even if he actually came to a stop and didnt cross the junction?

I refer you to the answer above from Von:

Looks like line crossing is the issue for the camera

[tvrgit]

Only defence might be if the stop line isn't visible... you are then allowed to stop AT the red light on your left. Might make a couple of yards of a difference.

[alphadog]

vonhosen said:

You commit the offence crossing the line even if you don't cross the junction.

I've always wondered - what would happen if a driver of a long vehicle like a 44 tonner moving in slow traffic crossed the line just before the lights changed from green to amber, but the back wheels didn't clear the sensors until after the red, presumably setting the camera off?

[esselte]

alphadog said:

vonhosen said:

You commit the offence crossing the line even if you don't cross the junction.

I've always wondered - what would happen if a driver of a long vehicle like a 44 tonner moving in slow traffic crossed the line just before the lights changed from green to amber, but the back wheels didn't clear the sensors until after the red, presumably setting the camera off?

I hope the people who check the photos can suss this one out...although maybe not.

[vonhosen]

esselte said:

alphadog said:

vonhosen said:

You commit the offence crossing the line even if you don't cross the junction.

I've always wondered - what would happen if a driver of a long vehicle like a 44 tonner moving in slow traffic crossed the line just before the lights changed from green to amber, but the back wheels didn't clear the sensors until after the red, presumably setting the camera off?

I hope the people who check the photos can suss this one out...although maybe not.

You are not allowed to cross the line with any part of the vehicle against red.
Don't start to cross until you know you can clear it.

[mph999]

vonhosen said:

esselte said:

alphadog said:

vonhosen said:

You commit the offence crossing the line even if you don't cross the junction.

I've always wondered - what would happen if a driver of a long vehicle like a 44 tonner moving in slow traffic crossed the line just before the lights changed from green to amber, but the back wheels didn't clear the sensors until after the red, presumably setting the camera off?

I hope the people who check the photos can suss this one out...although maybe not.

You are not allowed to cross the line with any part of the vehicle against red.
Don't start to cross until you know you can clear it.

True, but if starting from stationary, having left a moment for traffic ahead to clear, how the hell is the driver supposed to know when they will change ...

Martin

[The Hitman]

There is no excuse for crossing the line at a red light. Even if you had Fire Truck/Ambulence/Police Car directly behind you, blowing the horn, telling you to get out of the way, you can't. People have been taken to court over this and have LOST. There is nothing stating that drivers must make-way for the emergancy services through breaking the guidelines of normal road use.

Sorry, dude.

[andmole]

The Hitman said:

There is no excuse for crossing the line at a red light. Even if you had Fire Truck/Ambulence/Police Car directly behind you, blowing the horn, telling you to get out of the way, you can't. People have been taken to court over this and have LOST. There is nothing stating that drivers must make-way for the emergancy services through breaking the guidelines of normal road use.

Sorry, dude.

so the law is an ass, even if it is the law

[justinp1]

barry_j said:

If it was raining and you were unable to stop before the traffic lights but came to a stop just after them and didnt actually cross the junction could you contest the penalty even though you passed the traffic lights and set the camera off? This happened to my brother and I'm not sure if he has a case to appeal.

As Von says, the offence has been committed.

Whatever reason there is you cannot get around that he will be still technically guilty of the offence.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I dont think even a top lawyer could get you off on that basis. Your only slim hope woul dbe to spend about £4000 for someone like Nick Freeman who would hope to look for a loophole in the evidence, or a technicality.

However, to be frank if your brother knows he is guilty, not only are the chances slim, it would be a very false economy risking £4000 to save £60.

[streaky]

alphadog said:

vonhosen said:

You commit the offence crossing the line even if you don't cross the junction.

I've always wondered - what would happen if a driver of a long vehicle like a 44 tonner moving in slow traffic crossed the line just before the lights changed from green to amber, but the back wheels didn't clear the sensors until after the red, presumably setting the camera off?

Best to drive a bendy-bus in London. As Ken Livingstone is so much in love with them (as opposed to the majority of people who use them, pay the fares and his wages), they don't get booked for any traffic offence. Reportedly, the common ones include triggering RLCs and blocking YBJs. They can't speed, the traffic moves too slowly. Another offences (seen by myself and colleagues) is using a cell-phone whilst driving. One that should be an offence is: "not using the designated bus lane" - STreaky

[alphadog]

vonhosen said:

esselte said:

alphadog said:

vonhosen said:

You commit the offence crossing the line even if you don't cross the junction.

I've always wondered - what would happen if a driver of a long vehicle like a 44 tonner moving in slow traffic crossed the line just before the lights changed from green to amber, but the back wheels didn't clear the sensors until after the red, presumably setting the camera off?

I hope the people who check the photos can suss this one out...although maybe not.

You are not allowed to cross the line with any part of the vehicle against red.
Don't start to cross until you know you can clear it.

Of course if the driver of said 44 tonner just stopped when the lights changed from green, then no sensors would be tripped and the camera wouldn't go off. Even though the front pair of wheels were over the line, it would not have been crossed on red.

There is some leeway in that the camera doesn't become active until a couple of seconds after the red is displayed, though this delay time is programmable.

[alphadog]

The Hitman said:

There is no excuse for crossing the line at a red light. Even if you had Fire Truck/Ambulence/Police Car directly behind you, blowing the horn, telling you to get out of the way, you can't. People have been taken to court over this and have LOST. There is nothing stating that drivers must make-way for the emergancy services through breaking the guidelines of normal road use.

Sorry, dude.

If you manoevred to the side of the road, not far enough to encroach on traffic crossing on the green phase (or, indeed any pedestrian crossing facilities at the junctions), but enough to trip the sensors, I fear that you would still get done, based on the law and the rather anal nature of the average camera partnership employee. I for one would not like to risk it.

[vonhosen]

alphadog said:

vonhosen said:

esselte said:

alphadog said:

vonhosen said:

You commit the offence crossing the line even if you don't cross the junction.

I've always wondered - what would happen if a driver of a long vehicle like a 44 tonner moving in slow traffic crossed the line just before the lights changed from green to amber, but the back wheels didn't clear the sensors until after the red, presumably setting the camera off?

I hope the people who check the photos can suss this one out...although maybe not.

You are not allowed to cross the line with any part of the vehicle against red.
Don't start to cross until you know you can clear it.

Of course if the driver of said 44 tonner just stopped when the lights changed from green, then no sensors would be tripped and the camera wouldn't go off. Even though the front pair of wheels were over the line, it would not have been crossed on red.

There is some leeway in that the camera doesn't become active until a couple of seconds after the red is displayed, though this delay time is programmable.

It isn't an offence to be straddling the line & not moving when it turns to red. It's an offence to move any part over against red.

[alphadog]

vonhosen said:

It isn't an offence to be straddling the line & not moving when it turns to red. It's an offence to move any part over against red.

Happened to me on my driving test turning right at a traffic light controlled cross roads. Car in front stalled, the lights turned to red - car in front then moved off. I stayed where I was - most of the way over the line and I passed my test.

[carinatauk]

Hmmm

I was sat at the roundabout just outside of the Trafford Centre [going towards M60 jct 10] after a delightful days shopping with girlfriend and daughters. I looked up and saw a light change to green [sited immediately in front] and started moving. As I moved off I noticed that no-one else was and stopped immediately [well one car's length over the line] when I looked at the lights sited to my right and left were still red. As I am not aware of any red light cameras in that area I don't know if I will be caught for such a transgression. But I would love to challenge some of the planning departments!!

I would assume I would have been caught if there had have been? And what would the penalty have been?

[barry_j]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll pass on the bad news...