Moving over for oncoming traffic
Discussion
My journey to work takes me on a dual carriage way every day, where I enter on a short (read: very short) slip road, before coming to one of the many roundabouts just over 1 mile away.
On a very regular basis, traffic is moving along on the inside lane heading up to the roundabout, knowing the entry is there but doing very little about it. Most do not move over for oncoming traffic, despite the outside lane being, on most cases, empty.
When I get to the slip road, I have two options, move onto it slowly to see if there is space, then accelerate as fast as I can. This causes much annoyance to most people who are behind me, as they ususally opt for option two:
Accelerate hard up the slip road to get up to speed before putting themselves on the carriage way, then sort out the traffic problem when the are nearing the end of the slip road.
Before anyone wishes to comment, yes I did pass my driving test and as such, am fully aware that it is up to me to wait for an opening in traffic...
It would be a much less stressful position to be in if oncoming traffic moved over to help us on, which is something I do at every slip road from that moment on.
What would you do?
And is moving over for oncoming traffic not taught to new drivers? (It was to me...)
Kind regards,
C
On a very regular basis, traffic is moving along on the inside lane heading up to the roundabout, knowing the entry is there but doing very little about it. Most do not move over for oncoming traffic, despite the outside lane being, on most cases, empty.
When I get to the slip road, I have two options, move onto it slowly to see if there is space, then accelerate as fast as I can. This causes much annoyance to most people who are behind me, as they ususally opt for option two:
Accelerate hard up the slip road to get up to speed before putting themselves on the carriage way, then sort out the traffic problem when the are nearing the end of the slip road.
Before anyone wishes to comment, yes I did pass my driving test and as such, am fully aware that it is up to me to wait for an opening in traffic...
It would be a much less stressful position to be in if oncoming traffic moved over to help us on, which is something I do at every slip road from that moment on.
What would you do?
And is moving over for oncoming traffic not taught to new drivers? (It was to me...)
Kind regards,
C
vonhosen said:
If on the DC I'll move to an offside lane where I cans afely on approach.
If coming up the slip road, option 1. Ease up the slip road & accelerate into a safe identified gap.
If coming up the slip road, option 1. Ease up the slip road & accelerate into a safe identified gap.
What he said, with the addition that when there is traffic in front of me on the slip road, I always hang back and let them get well ahead to give myself room to accelerate into. That way I can match the speed of the gap I have identified, especially since I just *know* those in front of me are going to accelerate up the slip road and then slow down looking for someone to let them in. Welcome to my daily joining of the eastbound A27 at the Hangleton Interchange.
I'm one of those who, when on a DC, will always move over for oncoming traffic, which I think is what a good driver would do, and that those who don't are utter numpties. I know what the law says, but in the interests of keeping traffic flowing, I think everyone should move over.
However:
In the situ you describe the traffic in lane 1 may want that lane for their direction of the roundabout, ie they may be turning left. They've probably found by experience that when they do move over for oncoming traffic, that traffic then won't let them back into lane 1. I have a DC nearby which suffers the same situation.
This DC is the A5 Tamworth bypass. Now, whereby I stand by my initial statement, on the Tamworth bypass the traffic is mostly local, and is travelling between the large retail parks and the large housing estates that are situated near this road. The drivers of this traffic are the most inexperienced, IMO. So what happens time and time and time again, is when trundling along in my truck on the speed limiter, I move over for oncoming traffic to allow it on to the bypass, and the car I've let on will then sit alongside me in lane 1 at exactly the same speed as me. Or it may accelerate veeeeeery slowly indeed, and pass me on the inside. Either way I get no thanks or recognition that I let thenm on to the DC at all.
Often, the only way I can return to lane 1 is to stick my nearside indicator on. Sometimes the car will react, sometimes it won't. When it doesn't I do the blind lorry driver act and slowly move over on them. (By now I've usually got a good queue behind me). This does get a response, usually involving horns. The car will move then, and often then overtakes me even though a minute he go he was happy at 56mph. The car will come by, the driver often gesticulating, and everybody thinks that me and all lorry drivers are complete morons.
So, for these reasons, when on the A5 Tamworth bypass, I often don't move over to allow oncoming traffic onto the DC. That also often results in horns and gesticulations and thoughts on the parentage of every lorry driver, but at least I'm not hung out to dry stuck in lane 2.
However:
In the situ you describe the traffic in lane 1 may want that lane for their direction of the roundabout, ie they may be turning left. They've probably found by experience that when they do move over for oncoming traffic, that traffic then won't let them back into lane 1. I have a DC nearby which suffers the same situation.
This DC is the A5 Tamworth bypass. Now, whereby I stand by my initial statement, on the Tamworth bypass the traffic is mostly local, and is travelling between the large retail parks and the large housing estates that are situated near this road. The drivers of this traffic are the most inexperienced, IMO. So what happens time and time and time again, is when trundling along in my truck on the speed limiter, I move over for oncoming traffic to allow it on to the bypass, and the car I've let on will then sit alongside me in lane 1 at exactly the same speed as me. Or it may accelerate veeeeeery slowly indeed, and pass me on the inside. Either way I get no thanks or recognition that I let thenm on to the DC at all.
Often, the only way I can return to lane 1 is to stick my nearside indicator on. Sometimes the car will react, sometimes it won't. When it doesn't I do the blind lorry driver act and slowly move over on them. (By now I've usually got a good queue behind me). This does get a response, usually involving horns. The car will move then, and often then overtakes me even though a minute he go he was happy at 56mph. The car will come by, the driver often gesticulating, and everybody thinks that me and all lorry drivers are complete morons.
So, for these reasons, when on the A5 Tamworth bypass, I often don't move over to allow oncoming traffic onto the DC. That also often results in horns and gesticulations and thoughts on the parentage of every lorry driver, but at least I'm not hung out to dry stuck in lane 2.
I very rarely (but sometimes have to ..) move out of lane 1 to let people join from a slip road, but i always make sure that there is more than enough gap in front for a couple of cars to safely move in to. If the drivers joining the DC aren't aware of what is going on in front of my car, have planned badly or are just too caught up in their own world to care I don't see it as my place to help them out ..
There are separate issues though of the "herding instinct" whereby drivers come down to join off slip roads in groups of 2, 3, 4 or more .. don't they realise they then have to find a gap 4 cars big? When I join off a slip road I make sure my car is in a big safetly zone of clear space, positioning my car and adjustng it's speed to make sure I join the new road alone so i only have manouvering myself into a gap worry about.
Most people create their own problems by poor planning and poor grasp of fundamentals of road safety and positioning. That's their problem not mine. I drive to protect myself from those people.
I'm courteous to drivers who are obviously looking around and assessing the situations, but drivers who barge into non-spaces with scant regard for anyone else around them incur my displeasure.
I drive with the attitude that everyone around me is trying to bump me off the road, my policy : keep a LOT of empty space around me, on busy motorways that means maybe the guys behind will drive too close so i make extra sure i have lots of space in front. I also tend to drive in lane 1 on busy motorways because the empty hard shoulder is a useful escape route should anything happen (incident wise) in the outer lanes. Your average speed is scarcely any different in peak rush hour times between the three lanes anyway.
Because a lot of drivers show poor road craft it tends to become survival of the fittest out there.
One other point : why is it when you use your horn for it's intended purpose of warning other road usrs of your presence (when they quite obviously haven't seen you) do they get all arsey and start waving their fists? .. you've just stopped them driving into yourself/someone else/a hard object and you get grief for it?
The modern driver is a funny animal.
There are separate issues though of the "herding instinct" whereby drivers come down to join off slip roads in groups of 2, 3, 4 or more .. don't they realise they then have to find a gap 4 cars big? When I join off a slip road I make sure my car is in a big safetly zone of clear space, positioning my car and adjustng it's speed to make sure I join the new road alone so i only have manouvering myself into a gap worry about.
Most people create their own problems by poor planning and poor grasp of fundamentals of road safety and positioning. That's their problem not mine. I drive to protect myself from those people.
I'm courteous to drivers who are obviously looking around and assessing the situations, but drivers who barge into non-spaces with scant regard for anyone else around them incur my displeasure.
I drive with the attitude that everyone around me is trying to bump me off the road, my policy : keep a LOT of empty space around me, on busy motorways that means maybe the guys behind will drive too close so i make extra sure i have lots of space in front. I also tend to drive in lane 1 on busy motorways because the empty hard shoulder is a useful escape route should anything happen (incident wise) in the outer lanes. Your average speed is scarcely any different in peak rush hour times between the three lanes anyway.
Because a lot of drivers show poor road craft it tends to become survival of the fittest out there.
One other point : why is it when you use your horn for it's intended purpose of warning other road usrs of your presence (when they quite obviously haven't seen you) do they get all arsey and start waving their fists? .. you've just stopped them driving into yourself/someone else/a hard object and you get grief for it?
The modern driver is a funny animal.
heebeegeetee said:
In the situ you describe the traffic in lane 1 may want that lane for their direction of the roundabout, ie they may be turning left. They've probably found by experience that when they do move over for oncoming traffic, that traffic then won't let them back into lane 1. I have a DC nearby which suffers the same situation.
Sorry, I should have mentioned that there is no left turn. Both lanes go straight on, with the outside lane serving those who wish to turn right, but about 90% don't.
I must be setting a new standard for dimness this morning, as I've been struggling to see where the oncoming traffic was coming from on a dual carriageway. It appears that what you're referring to is traffic coming onto a dual carriageway from a slip road, rather than encountering vehicles coming towards you from the opposite direction.
Unless I'm still seeing this completely the wrong way, I favour a restrained pace on the slip road, with a good gap infront of me, until I'm sure of a gap to get into in L1 of the DC, then boot it briefly if necessary to match speed, and in we go.
As a little added refinement I may supplement this with a little 'Good morning everyone' type of wave particularly to the driver who is now behind me in lane 1 - especially if there is any sign that he has done something to assist my arrival. Harmonious progress and general goodwill you know; I'm into that kind of thing. It seems to ease things along quite nicely.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Unless I'm still seeing this completely the wrong way, I favour a restrained pace on the slip road, with a good gap infront of me, until I'm sure of a gap to get into in L1 of the DC, then boot it briefly if necessary to match speed, and in we go.
As a little added refinement I may supplement this with a little 'Good morning everyone' type of wave particularly to the driver who is now behind me in lane 1 - especially if there is any sign that he has done something to assist my arrival. Harmonious progress and general goodwill you know; I'm into that kind of thing. It seems to ease things along quite nicely.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Just add my 2 p's worth. As we all know, the driver already on the DC has the RIGHT of way, the vehicles on the slip road DO NOT.
I personally will always be looking ahead to see if vehicles are coming down the slip road, and (I know its not right), I will flash them if I feel it is safe for them to pull out in front of me, if they are going a little faster than me, this is not needed, but is doesnt hurt to let him know you are happy to let him pull onto the DC.
I will also change lanes if I think it will help, but not if it causes those in L2 to slow down, but sadly a lot of folk do just this.
One particular DC, the A90 heading south from Aberdeen, as you pass Altens, the slip road is partly obscured by the grass verge, and this is a busy junction, at this point on the DC, the NSL applies, most cars will habitually pass this junction in L2, knowing vehicles WILL be coming down it to join the DC.
I personally will always be looking ahead to see if vehicles are coming down the slip road, and (I know its not right), I will flash them if I feel it is safe for them to pull out in front of me, if they are going a little faster than me, this is not needed, but is doesnt hurt to let him know you are happy to let him pull onto the DC.
I will also change lanes if I think it will help, but not if it causes those in L2 to slow down, but sadly a lot of folk do just this.
One particular DC, the A90 heading south from Aberdeen, as you pass Altens, the slip road is partly obscured by the grass verge, and this is a busy junction, at this point on the DC, the NSL applies, most cars will habitually pass this junction in L2, knowing vehicles WILL be coming down it to join the DC.
I pull over if there is room to do so without inconveniencing people already in the outside lane going faster than me, *and* if there are people coming in on the slip road who otherwise would find it difficult to join. If I can't pull over, I may hang back a bit to ensure there is a big enough gap in front of me for someone to pull in. I know I have right of way, but either of these actions seems to me to be a common courtesy that I quite like having shown to me on occasion. And arguably helps to keep traffic flowing, which must be a Good Thing.
My pet hates are:
* People who pull over into an outside lane automatically when approaching a sliproad - often without indicating, or taking note of someone already in that lane going xx mph faster than them, or whether anyone is joining the road and "needs" letting in.
* I'm driving along the inside lane, there's no other traffic for about half a mile in front of or behind me, someone thunders up the sliproad without proper observation and insists on disputing the few square feet of tarmac that I'm occupying. For god's sake, if you're not fast enough to get in front, why not pull in behind?
My pet hates are:
* People who pull over into an outside lane automatically when approaching a sliproad - often without indicating, or taking note of someone already in that lane going xx mph faster than them, or whether anyone is joining the road and "needs" letting in.
* I'm driving along the inside lane, there's no other traffic for about half a mile in front of or behind me, someone thunders up the sliproad without proper observation and insists on disputing the few square feet of tarmac that I'm occupying. For god's sake, if you're not fast enough to get in front, why not pull in behind?
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