Driving on private land
Discussion
Quick question for the BiBs. If someone is disqualified from driving on health grounds, what is the deal regarding driving on private land?
I have a neighbour who has had his licence withdrawn due to him having Parkinsons. He insists on driving from the road up a private drive to his garage. This private drive is acually the front of three houses (mine included).
I am concerned if he should not be driving on health grounds I am not keen on him driving across my land to get to his garage, considering my son could be out there, or my car for that matter!
Any advise I can use to try and talk him into not driving? I do not want to fall out with him, but then again, I do not want him damaging my family due to his situation.
I have a neighbour who has had his licence withdrawn due to him having Parkinsons. He insists on driving from the road up a private drive to his garage. This private drive is acually the front of three houses (mine included).
I am concerned if he should not be driving on health grounds I am not keen on him driving across my land to get to his garage, considering my son could be out there, or my car for that matter!
Any advise I can use to try and talk him into not driving? I do not want to fall out with him, but then again, I do not want him damaging my family due to his situation.
Now, I could be wrong (I'm still learning my traffic law) but as I understand it a mechanically propelled vehicle and it's driver must be road-legal if it is used on 'any highway or any other road to which the public has access'. The latter might apply to your private road/driveway, perhaps.
Someone more knowledgable and experienced will be along shortly...
Someone more knowledgable and experienced will be along shortly...
Unfortunatly things are coming to a head, since his wife has just declared that my wife's parking space is in fact a turning circle, and she must not park there any more! (Even though it is a bit of my front garden that we have converted into a space). They have said that their deeds show that it is a turning circle, even though I know for a fact that they do not (as the wife has pulled the house apart to track down a copy of our deeds!)
Fer said:
Unfortunatly things are coming to a head, since his wife has just declared that my wife's parking space is in fact a turning circle, and she must not park there any more! (Even though it is a bit of my front garden that we have converted into a space). They have said that their deeds show that it is a turning circle, even though I know for a fact that they do not (as the wife has pulled the house apart to track down a copy of our deeds!)
Ask him for a copy of his deeds to prove it. Advise him that should be move/proceed across your drive without the relevant proof you will sue in Trespass.
Your Building Society MAY have a copy of your deeds. Your conveyancer also might.
Land registry is worth a shot, but often their title deeds are not hugely accurate and nor are they scaled down enough for accuracy.
Whatever the orginal deeds state isn't it how the land has been used for the last twelve years? Our front boundary fence was put in wrong by the builders of our houses, the neighbour was quite happy with the fence and didn't want the orginal boundary, we were told by our solicitor that after twelve years the fence denotes the legal boundary. So whatever your deeds show if there has been a carpark space in that position for twelve years no problem. Except you have to live next door to these people and you will always appear to be the 'bad guy' if the other person has some sort of illness/disibility.
eccles said:
I always thought if the public has access, its classed as a public place, so he shouldn't be driving there.
Is it classed as 'reasonable access'? For example - a supermarket car park is private land - but it's not unreasonable to expect the public to drive on. A field however, perhaps with gates, etc restricting access - then there is no reason a member of the public to enter, unless specifically invited.
K
These are two different issues surely.
Should the guy be driving at all and is he insured to do so - and
Are you entitled to park on the space which you have made into a parking slot.
The deeds should answer one part and your neighbour the other.
How do you get on wih them until now?
Should the guy be driving at all and is he insured to do so - and
Are you entitled to park on the space which you have made into a parking slot.
The deeds should answer one part and your neighbour the other.
How do you get on wih them until now?
Very true, two issues.
The parking point - We have converted an area of the front garden into hard standing. There is no where that this was ever a turning circle, and therefore I will be telling them that unless they can prove it via their deeds then they have no rights. (I have seen my deeds, and this is NOT in the area that they can drive over).
Driving - Good point, and to be honest, I do not want to cause hassle with the neighbours, but banging on my front door, demanding my wife moves her car is beyond the joke. I chose not to go down there after work last night, but will try and have a quiet word with them at the weekend. (Quiet word not always easy, as they have an intercom and do not come to the door, and trying to explain anything over £2 of mic/speaker is a right PITA!).
Thanks for all the advise.
The parking point - We have converted an area of the front garden into hard standing. There is no where that this was ever a turning circle, and therefore I will be telling them that unless they can prove it via their deeds then they have no rights. (I have seen my deeds, and this is NOT in the area that they can drive over).
Driving - Good point, and to be honest, I do not want to cause hassle with the neighbours, but banging on my front door, demanding my wife moves her car is beyond the joke. I chose not to go down there after work last night, but will try and have a quiet word with them at the weekend. (Quiet word not always easy, as they have an intercom and do not come to the door, and trying to explain anything over £2 of mic/speaker is a right PITA!).
Thanks for all the advise.
Kinky said:
eccles said:
I always thought if the public has access, its classed as a public place, so he shouldn't be driving there.
Is it classed as 'reasonable access'? For example - a supermarket car park is private land - but it's not unreasonable to expect the public to drive on. A field however, perhaps with gates, etc restricting access - then there is no reason a member of the public to enter, unless specifically invited.
K
i know what you mean, but from the sound of it, the 'private' drive that serves 3 houses has no gate, and if the milkman got hit or a bunch of double glazing salesmen got hit whilst visiting..... how would the bloke with no license stand then?
madleee said:
This might not be any use because I cannot remember the site addy.
You can access the land registry website and for about £2 get a print of your
land boundaries as shown on your deeds.
It is possible you just might have to do some searching.
Good luck
You can access the land registry website and for about £2 get a print of your
land boundaries as shown on your deeds.
It is possible you just might have to do some searching.
Good luck
It's gone up to £3 but it's a good site, I've used it a few times.
www.landregisteronline.gov.uk/
I would suggest that he does indeed need a driving license and insurance due to the aspect of the public having access.
You have access to you property as do other members of the public. Postie et al.
If the drive served 1 house only then it could be deamed a private road and no license or insurance will be required but due to the fact there are 3 houses with access i would class this as a public place.
Why does he drive from the road upto the house? Are you sure he is not actually driving about and you have seen him on the driveway stretch?
You have access to you property as do other members of the public. Postie et al.
If the drive served 1 house only then it could be deamed a private road and no license or insurance will be required but due to the fact there are 3 houses with access i would class this as a public place.
Why does he drive from the road upto the house? Are you sure he is not actually driving about and you have seen him on the driveway stretch?
I had a slightly similar issue on our industrial estate.
A tenant of our's used to drive one of his fork trucks on the site and he had an FLT licence.
However, he took ill one day and he was stopped from driving a car for a period of months. He still, though, drove the fork truck on site.
I know you can't do this, but I insisted on a doctor's note confirming he was fit to drive because, had he injured or killed someone and not been insured, all hell would have let loose.
A tenant of our's used to drive one of his fork trucks on the site and he had an FLT licence.
However, he took ill one day and he was stopped from driving a car for a period of months. He still, though, drove the fork truck on site.
I know you can't do this, but I insisted on a doctor's note confirming he was fit to drive because, had he injured or killed someone and not been insured, all hell would have let loose.
AndyAudi said:
Have heard it said that "if the postman delivers the mail without opening a gate it is not a private road"
Not sure if that's just pub talk, but it does seem to have a lot of sense.
Not sure if that's just pub talk, but it does seem to have a lot of sense.
Pub talk.
You may be surprised how many “private roads” there are in the country, from streets on social housing estates to trackways servings a couple of houses.
From the way you describe the situation, you have an access drive that serves three houses only. If you have any responsibility to pay for the cost of maintaining it out of your own pocket, it is a private road. The major difference between the two is that “public roads” are maintained at public expense (ie out of council tax) whilst private roads are not – the owner maintains them,
Any combination of the three houses will actually own the drive (could be just one owner, or two out the of three, or all of you own different parts of it). Whatever the ownership position, you will all have rights of access along it. These are known in land law as easements and, if the land is registered, then details of these easements will be held in the Land Registry. They might not be too comprehensively described, and to find out more you need to look at the last formal conveyance of the land. You will also have to look there if the land is not registered – if this is the case and you have a mortgage, your Building Society will hold it.
As I understand land law, if your “errant” neighbour actually owns the land and you have a right of access over it, then provided he maintains your right of access he can do what he likes with it, in just the same way that you can do what you like in your own garden. This would include driving his car along it if he had a mind to.
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