At last SUN.....yipeeeeeeee
Discussion
Finally the roads were dry enough today to give my Ultima full throttle for the first time in about 4mths.
Oh what a car.......I was getting rather large flames out the rear as I was able to hold the car past 6500rpm on the back roads (just don't ask what gear
).
I can't wait to get back on track.
Oh what a car.......I was getting rather large flames out the rear as I was able to hold the car past 6500rpm on the back roads (just don't ask what gear
). I can't wait to get back on track.
Hey Andy, l've found the problem, or at least one of them. Nil compression on one cylinder. 
The rest are about 180 psi. l cant test the rear 2 cylinders without removing the manifolds but suspect l will be removing these and a whole lot more. l am not familiar with the hydraulic valves. Nor do l have your phone number so perhaps you can call my mobile when you have a moment. Cheers.
The rest are about 180 psi. l cant test the rear 2 cylinders without removing the manifolds but suspect l will be removing these and a whole lot more. l am not familiar with the hydraulic valves. Nor do l have your phone number so perhaps you can call my mobile when you have a moment. Cheers.
Steve
l had to remove the manifolds to test the compression of the rear two cylinders which l did today. They were both OK at 180 psi. l checked the valves and found that the inlet valve to cylinder 5, the one with zero compression, was not opening. The push rod easily moved up and down by about 20-25 mm and l was able to push the rod down and turn the rocker round without loosening anything. Turning the engine over on the starter, this valve and rocker did not function at all so presumably there will be no fuel/air getting into the cylinder. Looking at the exhaust outlet, this is carbonised whilst the rest are consistently of the right sooty appearance. l cant understand why this outlet has so much carbon if the cylinder is burning nothing. Also, l cant understand why the push rod moves so easily. lt feels as though it is pushing down on a weak spring. l was able to pull the push rod out and there is no apparent damage to the rod itself. My feeling is that it could be a dodgy cam follower or dodgy cam lobe but that doesnt explain why it should feel springy.
Any ideas anyone?
Nick aka Ultiman (when on my own pc.)
l had to remove the manifolds to test the compression of the rear two cylinders which l did today. They were both OK at 180 psi. l checked the valves and found that the inlet valve to cylinder 5, the one with zero compression, was not opening. The push rod easily moved up and down by about 20-25 mm and l was able to push the rod down and turn the rocker round without loosening anything. Turning the engine over on the starter, this valve and rocker did not function at all so presumably there will be no fuel/air getting into the cylinder. Looking at the exhaust outlet, this is carbonised whilst the rest are consistently of the right sooty appearance. l cant understand why this outlet has so much carbon if the cylinder is burning nothing. Also, l cant understand why the push rod moves so easily. lt feels as though it is pushing down on a weak spring. l was able to pull the push rod out and there is no apparent damage to the rod itself. My feeling is that it could be a dodgy cam follower or dodgy cam lobe but that doesnt explain why it should feel springy.
Any ideas anyone?
Nick aka Ultiman (when on my own pc.)
Sounds like a duff follower,(Not holding pressure) but is holding oil, hence the springyness (good word)the alternative, based on what you've decribed is the cam lobe has disappeared, which,(famous last words) is highly unlikeley. Just as an aside the valve spring is'nt broken, is it?
The lifter has a light spring inside so that is what you feel when you are pushing down the pushrod.
The lifter should be full of oil preventing you from doing this so has either failed or the oil supply to the lifter is blocked.
To give you some assurance that you still have a cam lobe
hold the pushrod down into the lifter with just your finger on the top and turn the engine over by hand. You should be able to confirm that you have the normal amount of cam lift compared with others. you don't need to measure it as you are only looking for a gross failure at this time.
Either way the next bit to come off is the intake.
Steve
The lifter should be full of oil preventing you from doing this so has either failed or the oil supply to the lifter is blocked.
To give you some assurance that you still have a cam lobe
hold the pushrod down into the lifter with just your finger on the top and turn the engine over by hand. You should be able to confirm that you have the normal amount of cam lift compared with others. you don't need to measure it as you are only looking for a gross failure at this time. Either way the next bit to come off is the intake.
Steve
Stick my kneck out here and say its time for a new cam with followers.
I know of one owner that replaced the followers and it totalled the cam within a few miles, which in turn caused a complete rebuild, pistons and all
I suspect also that its the follower with no oil! Lets hope its not the cam.
I'll ring you later, but unless the problem becomes obvious you might need to give your engine to a pro just in case.
>> Edited by ultimaandy on Monday 17th March 07:16
I know of one owner that replaced the followers and it totalled the cam within a few miles, which in turn caused a complete rebuild, pistons and all
I suspect also that its the follower with no oil! Lets hope its not the cam.
I'll ring you later, but unless the problem becomes obvious you might need to give your engine to a pro just in case.
>> Edited by ultimaandy on Monday 17th March 07:16
Gents
Thanks for your responses. Sounds like the cam follower but l will try turning the engine over to see if l get any movement on the rod. Can the cam follower be replaced without removing the engine from the car?
Andy, why should a camshaft be damaged by a new follower unless it was badly installed or there was no oil or the wrong part?
Does anyone know of a suitable expert locally to the South East (Kent) who could deal with these engines?
Thanks for your responses. Sounds like the cam follower but l will try turning the engine over to see if l get any movement on the rod. Can the cam follower be replaced without removing the engine from the car?
Andy, why should a camshaft be damaged by a new follower unless it was badly installed or there was no oil or the wrong part?
Does anyone know of a suitable expert locally to the South East (Kent) who could deal with these engines?
A cam follower could be replaced with engine in as you only need to take the inlet manifold off.
Sadly if you replace a cam follower on an existing cam there is the possibility that they will eat each other. Don't ask me why, it just happens sometimes.
If the cam needs to change then the engine will have to come out as the shaft has to come out the front.
The closest engine guy I know to you is in Sussex (Repower) but most would tell you to send it to Peter Knight in Daventry.
What work can you do yourself?
Once you know that the cam lobe is still there you need to remove the follower which you should then be able to dismantle to confirm it is not blocked. You could also check for oilway blockage.
It's a pity your so far from me (Portsmouth) or I could have had a look with you.
Maybe someone else can give you a hand.
Best of luck
Steve
Keep us informed.
PS Simon can sell you another engine. He has 2 to choose from.
Sadly if you replace a cam follower on an existing cam there is the possibility that they will eat each other. Don't ask me why, it just happens sometimes.
If the cam needs to change then the engine will have to come out as the shaft has to come out the front.
The closest engine guy I know to you is in Sussex (Repower) but most would tell you to send it to Peter Knight in Daventry.
What work can you do yourself?
Once you know that the cam lobe is still there you need to remove the follower which you should then be able to dismantle to confirm it is not blocked. You could also check for oilway blockage.
It's a pity your so far from me (Portsmouth) or I could have had a look with you.
Maybe someone else can give you a hand.
Best of luck
Steve
Keep us informed.
PS Simon can sell you another engine. He has 2 to choose from.
You sometimes find that when a follower dies it damages the cam lobe (not always though). If that happens and you put a new follower in, the damaged cam will chew into it, and then the now damaged follower will eat what is left of the cam lobe.
You won't necessarily need to replace the cam, but it's a "good idea" (tm) to remove it for inspection.
James
You won't necessarily need to replace the cam, but it's a "good idea" (tm) to remove it for inspection.
James
l spoke to Peter Knight who was very helpful and considered that the cam was probably gone which apparently just happens with these engines, which then go on to record prodigious mileages on seven cylinders without anyone ever knowing. Im not in that category as it means 13 second times at Santa Pod when 11 secs should be achievable. I prefer Steve D's version as this involves removing the inlet manifold and checking out the cam follower. l also spoke to Gale at American Speed who, l suspect, thought l was going to claim under the warranty so was a little reserved. Also another company in the SE who went along with my preferred notion of cam follower failure. That has my vote so perhaps someone can tell me now what l should expect to see when l take the thing out and how l will know that it has failed.
(l intend to bore you all until someone offers me a free engine)
(l intend to bore you all until someone offers me a free engine)
The follower has an almost flat face that runs on the cam. I is positioned so that it is just to one side of the cam centre. This causes it to gently spin around in its housing thereby distributing the wear across the face of the follower. Your follower, if all is well, will look nice and smooth and polished. If its sh*g*d you will know. The face will be dished, scratched and may have a pitted surface (this is the case hardening breaking through).
The cam lobe will have rounded shoulders which you will easily compare to other good lobes.
If the follower looks OK then take it apart. There will be a circlip in the top holding the piston in, remove this and inspect the parts for blockages and debris.
Also inspect the oilway that comes into the side of the hole the follower live in.
Steve
The cam lobe will have rounded shoulders which you will easily compare to other good lobes.
If the follower looks OK then take it apart. There will be a circlip in the top holding the piston in, remove this and inspect the parts for blockages and debris.
Also inspect the oilway that comes into the side of the hole the follower live in.
Steve
Just a Small note if the Hydraulic part of the follower collapses, you will still get about 2/3rds of the lift, so if you have no lift on that valve and the pushrod is straight and possitioned correctly, then I'm sorry mate the Cam is Dead. If that is the case then the hole lot has to come apart as the Cast Iron particels may have done alot of damage. Since the Problem, how long has it run ??
Clive
l realy don't know how long it has run like this but l suspect it is quite a few miles as it wasnt performing too well at Santa Pod back in October (which was why l had to saw half way through Andy's drive shafts in order to beat him). My guess would be that if there had been cam failure, l would have had bits of worn cam floating about in the oil which is not the case. lf it is the cam lobe that has worn out l would expect not to see any movement in the rod. l have yet to try this. l will post a reply when l know.
l have heard that the problem tends to involve both the cam follower and the cam, and thast if replacing just the follower, it is possible that the cam could then suffer failure. Is this common?
l realy don't know how long it has run like this but l suspect it is quite a few miles as it wasnt performing too well at Santa Pod back in October (which was why l had to saw half way through Andy's drive shafts in order to beat him). My guess would be that if there had been cam failure, l would have had bits of worn cam floating about in the oil which is not the case. lf it is the cam lobe that has worn out l would expect not to see any movement in the rod. l have yet to try this. l will post a reply when l know.
l have heard that the problem tends to involve both the cam follower and the cam, and thast if replacing just the follower, it is possible that the cam could then suffer failure. Is this common?
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