Community Speed Watch !?!?!?
Discussion
I'm sure this has probably been covered in the past but isn't this a bit concerning ? especially .... 'they risk having their car impounded under a Section 59 notice'
A village I travel through every day (at less than 30mph - usually with someone glued to my rear bumper !) has just put up the CSW signs and have members of the public standing around in bright jackets pointing speed guns at everyone.
From ... www.transport2000.org.uk/communityaction/CombatSpeed.htm
Community Speed Watch
Community Speed Watch is a partnership between the police constabulary, the local authority and the local community. Volunteers from the local community are trained by the police to use speed detecting devices for the purposes of gathering data on motorists who are speeding. The sites chosen for the monitoring are selected by the community in response to their local knowledge about where speeding is taking place or perceived to be taking place. The effectiveness of Community Speed Watch is as much a result of having a physical presence by the side of the road with a radar gun, as it is a result of sending warning letters to motorists caught speeding.
From a different site....
At the time of going to press, 94 vehicles caught speeding, will be issued with warning letters. They will be informed that should they be monitored travelling in excess of the speed limit again they risk having their car impounded under a Section 59 notice.
A village I travel through every day (at less than 30mph - usually with someone glued to my rear bumper !) has just put up the CSW signs and have members of the public standing around in bright jackets pointing speed guns at everyone.
From ... www.transport2000.org.uk/communityaction/CombatSpeed.htm
Community Speed Watch
Community Speed Watch is a partnership between the police constabulary, the local authority and the local community. Volunteers from the local community are trained by the police to use speed detecting devices for the purposes of gathering data on motorists who are speeding. The sites chosen for the monitoring are selected by the community in response to their local knowledge about where speeding is taking place or perceived to be taking place. The effectiveness of Community Speed Watch is as much a result of having a physical presence by the side of the road with a radar gun, as it is a result of sending warning letters to motorists caught speeding.
From a different site....
At the time of going to press, 94 vehicles caught speeding, will be issued with warning letters. They will be informed that should they be monitored travelling in excess of the speed limit again they risk having their car impounded under a Section 59 notice.
jasandjules said:
Need to wait until the appeal about only coppers forming an opinion with respect to speeding. If he wins, then these feckers won't have a leg to stand on. I would also ask them for the evidence, i.e. a photograph of you travelling in excess of the speed limit.
Note though that they are gathering 'data' not evidence, I guess they are learning
And when they are gathered that data they send you a 'warning letter'.
And then to counteract the fact they are in effect a 'dog with no teeth' they are then putting in the non-descript 'Section 59' offence specifically not explaining what it is so that Joe Public thinks that such an unknown and scary legal methodology may work...
If nothing else at least the local busybodies are happy until someone slams their brakes on and someone behing slams into the back of them before thier very eyes.
Section 59 is an abomination of law-making and a healthy step towards a Police state.
It requires that the driver both drives without due care and attention and in a manner likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance (although none need actually occur). However, it is all in the officer's point of view, and there is no appeal to a magistrate or legal authority. It relies entirely on the goodwill of the officer, or those whom he appoints as his eyes and ears.
For all those who wonder why I bang on about relying on Police discretion in speed enforcement being a bad thing, S59 is the answer. It's the reason that "arbitrary" speed limits are a good thing for the motorist.
It requires that the driver both drives without due care and attention and in a manner likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance (although none need actually occur). However, it is all in the officer's point of view, and there is no appeal to a magistrate or legal authority. It relies entirely on the goodwill of the officer, or those whom he appoints as his eyes and ears.
For all those who wonder why I bang on about relying on Police discretion in speed enforcement being a bad thing, S59 is the answer. It's the reason that "arbitrary" speed limits are a good thing for the motorist.
7db said:
Section 59 is an abomination of law-making and a healthy step towards a Police state.
It requires that the driver both drives without due care and attention and in a manner likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance (although none need actually occur). However, it is all in the officer's point of view, and there is no appeal to a magistrate or legal authority. It relies entirely on the goodwill of the officer, or those whom he appoints as his eyes and ears.
For all those who wonder why I bang on about relying on Police discretion in speed enforcement being a bad thing, S59 is the answer. It's the reason that "arbitrary" speed limits are a good thing for the motorist.
It requires that the driver both drives without due care and attention and in a manner likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance (although none need actually occur). However, it is all in the officer's point of view, and there is no appeal to a magistrate or legal authority. It relies entirely on the goodwill of the officer, or those whom he appoints as his eyes and ears.
For all those who wonder why I bang on about relying on Police discretion in speed enforcement being a bad thing, S59 is the answer. It's the reason that "arbitrary" speed limits are a good thing for the motorist.
I guess that last paragraph might not be a popular view in here but there it is.
Plus re the community speed watch thing. You have to add in that the eyes and ears appointed have no expert knowledge, and are not independant nor objective.
OAP1: What did that one measure?
OAP2: 39 but its that nice Major Smithers, looks after his Mum and always stands his round up at the golf club.
OAP1: Ignore him then, but look here comes that nasty Mr PH in his sports car. He doesn't like my cat.
OAP2: Only 29 I'm afraid. Better luck next time.
OAP1: Sod that he's getting 39. That'll sort him.
For that Mr PH could possibly get a S59.
I can understand why people get involved with these schemes. We live in a village that has a fast, open bypass with good sightlines for overtaking and the possibility for travelling at the NSL without danger to anyone.
The village through road has been traffic calmed, yet people still speed because the calming has been ineffective.
Its true that the through road is wide and fairly straight, and would be safe to do NSL speeds on, were it not for the 200 plus houses that border it.
The difference in time between travelling through the village at 30, and 60 is strangely enough double. Which equals a saving of about 1 minute.
People who live in villages with this problem see it as being as anti social and with the BiB being in such short supply will try anything to solve the problem.
The key phrase in all this which no-one ever seems to grasp is APPROPRIATE SPEED
If you drive through a village with a 30 limit, at least try and do 30, not 40/50/60. Then the "Busybodies" will have to find something else to do.
The village through road has been traffic calmed, yet people still speed because the calming has been ineffective.
Its true that the through road is wide and fairly straight, and would be safe to do NSL speeds on, were it not for the 200 plus houses that border it.
The difference in time between travelling through the village at 30, and 60 is strangely enough double. Which equals a saving of about 1 minute.
People who live in villages with this problem see it as being as anti social and with the BiB being in such short supply will try anything to solve the problem.
The key phrase in all this which no-one ever seems to grasp is APPROPRIATE SPEED
If you drive through a village with a 30 limit, at least try and do 30, not 40/50/60. Then the "Busybodies" will have to find something else to do.
FlatinFifths right, we had a trial of it in our village, it did wonders for community relations.
I am led to believe that one of the village hair dryer holders was punched in one of the village pubs for this sort of caper.
Legitimised busybody-ism, and only ever participated in by snivelling, nosy, embittered OAPS with far too much time on their hands.
Villages are close communities - and they tend to deal with stuff like this in their own way.
I am led to believe that one of the village hair dryer holders was punched in one of the village pubs for this sort of caper.
Legitimised busybody-ism, and only ever participated in by snivelling, nosy, embittered OAPS with far too much time on their hands.
Villages are close communities - and they tend to deal with stuff like this in their own way.
These people are fantastic, Paul at Safespeed could learn a thing or two here I can tell you.
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/content/view/50/38
One question. Precisely who funds these people and how do you go about getting adequate funding for your campaign? I can see a whole new career ahead of me!
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/content/view/50/38
One question. Precisely who funds these people and how do you go about getting adequate funding for your campaign? I can see a whole new career ahead of me!
andy zarse said:
These people are fantastic, Paul at Safespeed could learn a thing or two here I can tell you.
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/content/view/50/38
One question. Precisely who funds these people and how do you go about getting adequate funding for your campaign? I can see a whole new career ahead of me!
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/content/view/50/38
One question. Precisely who funds these people and how do you go about getting adequate funding for your campaign? I can see a whole new career ahead of me!
God help us, 30 is difficult enough, 20 is a joke.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
whyohwhy said:
andy zarse said:
These people are fantastic, Paul at Safespeed could learn a thing or two here I can tell you.
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/content/view/50/38
One question. Precisely who funds these people and how do you go about getting adequate funding for your campaign? I can see a whole new career ahead of me!
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/content/view/50/38
One question. Precisely who funds these people and how do you go about getting adequate funding for your campaign? I can see a whole new career ahead of me!
God help us, 30 is difficult enough, 20 is a joke.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
I noticed that too on that road. Absolutely crazy and all for what, one might ask.
By the way, whyohwhy, I think we may live near to each other if your car has a similar reg to your PH name. My home is in Earith.
cooperman said:
whyohwhy said:
andy zarse said:
These people are fantastic, Paul at Safespeed could learn a thing or two here I can tell you.
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/content/view/50/38
One question. Precisely who funds these people and how do you go about getting adequate funding for your campaign? I can see a whole new career ahead of me!
www.slower-speeds.org.uk/content/view/50/38
One question. Precisely who funds these people and how do you go about getting adequate funding for your campaign? I can see a whole new career ahead of me!
God help us, 30 is difficult enough, 20 is a joke.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
I noticed that too on that road. Absolutely crazy and all for what, one might ask.
By the way, whyohwhy, I think we may live near to each other if your car has a similar reg to your PH name. My home is in Earith.
Hi Cooperman, No reg is nothing like PH name, I live just north of Newmarket in Fordham.
whyohwhy said:
God help us, 30 is difficult enough, 20 is a joke.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
IIRC (I'm going from memory) there's a rule that says a speed limit has to be in effect for a minimum of 400 yards, to stop exactly this kind of shenanegan.
smeggy said:
whyohwhy said:
God help us, 30 is difficult enough, 20 is a joke.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
IIRC (I'm going from memory) there's a rule that says a speed limit has to be in effect for a minimum of 400 yards, to stop exactly this kind of shenanegan.
Think they must have lost their tape measure, or shock horror not followed the rules.
smeggy said:
whyohwhy said:
God help us, 30 is difficult enough, 20 is a joke.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
IIRC (I'm going from memory) there's a rule that says a speed limit has to be in effect for a minimum of 400 yards, to stop exactly this kind of shenanegan.
DfT recommends (not legal requirement) 600m minimum length of speed limit for most roads, 400m for lower limits. In exceptional circumstances for local acces roads only - 300m.
(DfT Circular 01/2006)
j.d.clarke said:
From a different site....
At the time of going to press, 94 vehicles caught speeding, will be issued with warning letters. They will be informed that should they be monitored travelling in excess of the speed limit again they risk having their car impounded under a Section 59 notice.
From which site exactly? "Going to press" sounds like er a press report.
The Surrey Police site describes CSW, but has no mention of section 59. It says
surrey police said:
A maximum of two warning letters, along with safety information, will be sent to offenders and if they are caught speeding again, they will be targeted for enforcement by police, where appropriate. The aim, however, is for the presence of the Speedwatch volunteers out on the streets to make drivers think twice about their driving habits and slow down.
gridgway said:
j.d.clarke said:
From a different site....
At the time of going to press, 94 vehicles caught speeding, will be issued with warning letters. They will be informed that should they be monitored travelling in excess of the speed limit again they risk having their car impounded under a Section 59 notice.
From which site exactly? "Going to press" sounds like er a press report.
The Surrey Police site describes CSW, but has no mention of section 59. It says
surrey police said:
A maximum of two warning letters, along with safety information, will be sent to offenders and if they are caught speeding again, they will be targeted for enforcement by police, where appropriate. The aim, however, is for the presence of the Speedwatch volunteers out on the streets to make drivers think twice about their driving habits and slow down.
Thats good to know!
That means that you have to be caught speeding by the busybodies three times, before you will be targeted by enforcement by the police... where appropriate. How exactly are the police going to target *you* for 'enforcement'? Camp outside your house and follow you around in an unmarked car? Jump out of a hedge at 8.16am on your way to work to 'catch you in the act'? I think not.
I think the police are keeping the busybodies quiet.
Why muzzle a dog with no teeth!? 7db said:
smeggy said:
whyohwhy said:
God help us, 30 is difficult enough, 20 is a joke.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
If you really want a laugh try driving up Exning Road in Newmarket. It has a mix of 20, 30, 20, 30, 20, 30 all in the space of 500 yards.
IIRC (I'm going from memory) there's a rule that says a speed limit has to be in effect for a minimum of 400 yards, to stop exactly this kind of shenanegan.
DfT recommends (not legal requirement) 600m minimum length of speed limit for most roads, 400m for lower limits. In exceptional circumstances for local acces roads only - 300m.
(DfT Circular 01/2006)
I knew it was something like that. Cheers!
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