Underwhelmed, is it just the F1.....
Discussion
Thanks to those nice chaps at www.ecurie25.co.uk I've spent the weekend out in their 360 F1 Spider.
It's a lovely sound, but I can't quite think I've been spoilt with the Noble, and hence I wondering where said 360 lives on the greatness ladder of Lugi.....?
The seats. Worse than anything else I've ever sat in. Sure, it has 5 axis of electric adjustment, but could I get them comfortable after 9+ hours in the car, could I heck. So bad was the seats for my passenger he ended up with serious back pain after 3 hours.
The F1 gearbox was shockingly bad. Sport on/off didn't seem to make that much difference and it seemed no matter what I did I just couldn't get the car to stop lurching at each and every change over 7000rpm. So bad was it at one point my passenger screamed in pain so violent was the change (the pain no doubt brought on by the bad seats above). Lifting off seemed to sometimes make things better, but then sometimes it didn't...
And in town, what a joke. The car is now sporting a nice scratch low down on the front bumper (wonder how much that's going to cost) due to concentrating so badly on how to make it creep forward I missed seeing a kerb in a car park just as it was getting dark. My fault and a bit of a blonde moment, but I can't help thinking it wasn't helped by me just wincing every time I heard it slipping the clutch. I'm amazed the clutches last as long as they do....
Ergonomics were strange in some places (err - window switches in the centre console next to the radio - novel idea that!), but the stiching on the dash meant there was a nice semo-circle of reflection of stiching smack bang in my field of view on the windscreen.
Speed seemed rather slow, but then I do normally drive an M400, and the steering, whilst never wandering, seemed somewhat unlinear after about 1/4 of lock which meant you often ended up having to wind lock off mid corner.
Sounded lovely though, especially though tunnels
, and certainly great value at £60k now, but pay the price it was new? Not convinced....
Other great things?
Well, the lack of wind noise at, ahem, 1.0 on the speed scale. A conversation with your passenger is easily possible, perhaps one of the best convertibles I've ever been in.
The 'blip' on the down change, I loved that, especially when pressing on and changing down to revs in the 6500-7000 range.
The red line, 8500 is just plain stupid, but it still feels like it wants to go more.
I really can't believe Ferrari let a car out with such a shockingly bad gearbox though.... Should I just advoid "F1" Ferraris from now on and stick to manuals? I can't feel a great sense of dissapointment with this, the seats, gearbox and that reflection in the windscreen all rather spoilt it for me
J
It's a lovely sound, but I can't quite think I've been spoilt with the Noble, and hence I wondering where said 360 lives on the greatness ladder of Lugi.....?
The seats. Worse than anything else I've ever sat in. Sure, it has 5 axis of electric adjustment, but could I get them comfortable after 9+ hours in the car, could I heck. So bad was the seats for my passenger he ended up with serious back pain after 3 hours.
The F1 gearbox was shockingly bad. Sport on/off didn't seem to make that much difference and it seemed no matter what I did I just couldn't get the car to stop lurching at each and every change over 7000rpm. So bad was it at one point my passenger screamed in pain so violent was the change (the pain no doubt brought on by the bad seats above). Lifting off seemed to sometimes make things better, but then sometimes it didn't...
And in town, what a joke. The car is now sporting a nice scratch low down on the front bumper (wonder how much that's going to cost) due to concentrating so badly on how to make it creep forward I missed seeing a kerb in a car park just as it was getting dark. My fault and a bit of a blonde moment, but I can't help thinking it wasn't helped by me just wincing every time I heard it slipping the clutch. I'm amazed the clutches last as long as they do....
Ergonomics were strange in some places (err - window switches in the centre console next to the radio - novel idea that!), but the stiching on the dash meant there was a nice semo-circle of reflection of stiching smack bang in my field of view on the windscreen.
Speed seemed rather slow, but then I do normally drive an M400, and the steering, whilst never wandering, seemed somewhat unlinear after about 1/4 of lock which meant you often ended up having to wind lock off mid corner.
Sounded lovely though, especially though tunnels
, and certainly great value at £60k now, but pay the price it was new? Not convinced.... Other great things?
Well, the lack of wind noise at, ahem, 1.0 on the speed scale. A conversation with your passenger is easily possible, perhaps one of the best convertibles I've ever been in.
The 'blip' on the down change, I loved that, especially when pressing on and changing down to revs in the 6500-7000 range.
The red line, 8500 is just plain stupid, but it still feels like it wants to go more.
I really can't believe Ferrari let a car out with such a shockingly bad gearbox though.... Should I just advoid "F1" Ferraris from now on and stick to manuals? I can't feel a great sense of dissapointment with this, the seats, gearbox and that reflection in the windscreen all rather spoilt it for me
J
J
With the Gearbox, you need time to get used to it, it took maybe 2 months on our Maserati to master it and so good once mastered that I traded my 550 to a 575 just to get an F1 box, I will never go back to a manual
Odd that you suffered with the seats, not sure if they are different to my 575 but I've done 6k miles in it since March inc a a 3k mile Euro tour over a week without a twinge
Is your M400 that much higher that it wouldn't have hit the kerb? A frien had an early 2.5 car from new and destroyed the front splitter on a Euro tour to Imola, not helped I admit by hitting a toll booth and a cottage in Italy
With the Gearbox, you need time to get used to it, it took maybe 2 months on our Maserati to master it and so good once mastered that I traded my 550 to a 575 just to get an F1 box, I will never go back to a manual
Odd that you suffered with the seats, not sure if they are different to my 575 but I've done 6k miles in it since March inc a a 3k mile Euro tour over a week without a twinge
Is your M400 that much higher that it wouldn't have hit the kerb? A frien had an early 2.5 car from new and destroyed the front splitter on a Euro tour to Imola, not helped I admit by hitting a toll booth and a cottage in Italy
Edited by F355GTS on Sunday 12th November 21:56
Was going to say Justin, maybe its a knackered 'box. I drove a 355 F1 and it seemed far better than the one (never version) that you're describing. A little jurky to start with but soon got the hang of it and found it great.
My mate who lives in Italy had a 360 F1 and never lifted his foot when up-changing. He lunched the clutch in about 900 miles!!
Greg
My mate who lives in Italy had a 360 F1 and never lifted his foot when up-changing. He lunched the clutch in about 900 miles!!
Greg
I know the car, have driven it too and have to admit I didn't like the F1 either, but I always prefer manuals anyway. Have to say the 430 F1 box is miles and miles better though, you really should have a go in that. Its a decent step up the performance scale and has a far superior chassis too.
rviant said:
Joust sounds like you had a crap gearbox there mate, never had any problems like that with mine. What seats did it have normal or carbon? I find mine relly comfortable e ven after driving it for 7 hours in a day
agree.mine works just great,first f1 and will not go back to manual.as for the seats ive had back ache in porsches and lambos, but the 360s suit me fine no problems at all.
Dropped it off this morning and Flora didn't seem to think the scratch was too bad and told me reassuringly that their body people are well used to things like that.
She said the 430's was much much better, chalk and cheese as it were to the 360, so I might just have to take that out and see what I think
Not sure what you mean by normal or carbon seats, they were leather, had lots and lots of left-right padding ridges if that helps? Part of it had to be the headrests were useless as you couldn't rest your head without looking at the sky. Fine for a driver who a) knows what's happening and b) has the steering wheel to hang on to, but when you are a passenger you really miss not being able to rest your head.
J
She said the 430's was much much better, chalk and cheese as it were to the 360, so I might just have to take that out and see what I think
Not sure what you mean by normal or carbon seats, they were leather, had lots and lots of left-right padding ridges if that helps? Part of it had to be the headrests were useless as you couldn't rest your head without looking at the sky. Fine for a driver who a) knows what's happening and b) has the steering wheel to hang on to, but when you are a passenger you really miss not being able to rest your head.
J
joust said:
It's a lovely sound, but I can't quite think I've been spoilt with the Noble, and hence I wondering where said 360 lives on the greatness ladder of Lugi.....?
Hi Justin, hope you're well? Yep, I think you have been spoilt with the Noble, never forget how quick you were through the corner at Vmax (vs my black 360 spider, a while ago now, you might not remember!
). joust said:
The seats. Worse than anything else I've ever sat in. Sure, it has 5 axis of electric adjustment, but could I get them comfortable after 9+ hours in the car, could I heck. So bad was the seats for my passenger he ended up with serious back pain after 3 hours.
I actually thought the seats were very comfortable. Mine had the Daytona seats, standard seats seemed ok for the short period I'd driven one, bucket seats were a bit uncomfortable. IMO Gallardo seats are really uncomfortable after a while.
joust said:
The F1 gearbox was shockingly bad. Sport on/off didn't seem to make that much difference and it seemed no matter what I did I just couldn't get the car to stop lurching at each and every change over 7000rpm. So bad was it at one point my passenger screamed in pain so violent was the change (the pain no doubt brought on by the bad seats above). Lifting off seemed to sometimes make things better, but then sometimes it didn't...
And in town, what a joke. The car is now sporting a nice scratch low down on the front bumper (wonder how much that's going to cost) due to concentrating so badly on how to make it creep forward I missed seeing a kerb in a car park just as it was getting dark. My fault and a bit of a blonde moment, but I can't help thinking it wasn't helped by me just wincing every time I heard it slipping the clutch. I'm amazed the clutches last as long as they do....
Agree with you here, I drove two F1's before buying the manual, and thought they were utterly crap. But I've been told by lots of people, that they get better with familiarity, I didn't want to take the risk, so went for manual.
joust said:
Ergonomics were strange in some places (err - window switches in the centre console next to the radio - novel idea that!), but the stiching on the dash meant there was a nice semo-circle of reflection of stiching smack bang in my field of view on the windscreen.
Girlfriend and I used to say the same thing about both! Try a crema dash with red stitching (not my car I should add)! The window switches seem an afterthought.
joust said:
Speed seemed rather slow, but then I do normally drive an M400, and the steering, whilst never wandering, seemed somewhat unlinear after about 1/4 of lock which meant you often ended up having to wind lock off mid corner.
By todays standard, it's not a very a quick car. I thought the steering was great for initial turn in, and then it all goes a bit different. It's the skinny front tyres, they give you a feeling of acres of grip, but it's not really there, it often soon turns to understeer!!!
joust said:
Sounded lovely though, especially though tunnels
, and certainly great value at £60k now, but pay the price it was new? Not convinced.... Hear one with a tubi, decatted. Sounds much much better, but still not as good as a 355.
joust said:
Other great things?
Well, the lack of wind noise at, ahem, 1.0 on the speed scale. A conversation with your passenger is easily possible, perhaps one of the best convertibles I've ever been in.
Try a 355, amazingly v, v little buffeting. I thought the 360 wasn't very good for buffeting, and thats with the deflector on! You'd be impressed with the 355.
joust said:
The 'blip' on the down change, I loved that, especially when pressing on and changing down to revs in the 6500-7000 range.
The red line, 8500 is just plain stupid, but it still feels like it wants to go more.
I really can't believe Ferrari let a car out with such a shockingly bad gearbox though.... Should I just advoid "F1" Ferraris from now on and stick to manuals? I can't feel a great sense of dissapointment with this, the seats, gearbox and that reflection in the windscreen all rather spoilt it for me
J
Manual gearbox is very good on the 360, I thought. Really very good! I didn't like the F1 either, and in general I didn't think it was worth the price new.
joust said:
andy355 said:
no idea about most of your comments, but manouvering an f1 should be done in second to make it easier
I tried that once, and giving the amount of slipping it did I swiftly put it back in 1st! Surely that will shorten the life of the clutch? J
of course the extra slip will wear clutch, but i used to use first initially then pop into 2nd for precision stuff. theres loads of slip in reverse too. have to admit my f1 experience is purely 355 but if its correctly adjusted its okish with for the awkward bits (town and parking etc) and a pleasure when you get going.
Edited by andy355 on Monday 13th November 21:22
Justin
I agree with all of Ninja Eli's comments (hi Ali), particularly with regard to how the 360 compares with the 355.
F1 does get better with use, and any jerkyness can be eradicated with carefull set up.
I suspect your experience says more about what a good product Lee Noble has managed to produce, than any perceived shortcomings the Fezza may or may not have.
With sportscars, there comes a point where dynamic differences become marginal as the price increases, and decisions get based on preferences and prejudice. The extra cash can rarely be logically justified. You either really want a certain car, or you don't.
Perhaps a 996 GT3 will scratch your itch better?.
I agree with all of Ninja Eli's comments (hi Ali), particularly with regard to how the 360 compares with the 355.
F1 does get better with use, and any jerkyness can be eradicated with carefull set up.
I suspect your experience says more about what a good product Lee Noble has managed to produce, than any perceived shortcomings the Fezza may or may not have.
With sportscars, there comes a point where dynamic differences become marginal as the price increases, and decisions get based on preferences and prejudice. The extra cash can rarely be logically justified. You either really want a certain car, or you don't.
Perhaps a 996 GT3 will scratch your itch better?.
It has "2001 F1 winners" badge on the dash so I assume that makes it a 2002 car.
CrikeyMikey, I know what you mean. THe Noble, dynamically, does have few peers, but I really thought I would be captured by the 'magic' of running around in the 360. Even funnier is I just saw a 360 today and I thought 'nice looking car', but I was somewhat underwhelmed with it.
Still, I'm sure a manual will be added to the steed sometime, and I've still got the 430 on my hit list
J
CrikeyMikey, I know what you mean. THe Noble, dynamically, does have few peers, but I really thought I would be captured by the 'magic' of running around in the 360. Even funnier is I just saw a 360 today and I thought 'nice looking car', but I was somewhat underwhelmed with it.
Still, I'm sure a manual will be added to the steed sometime, and I've still got the 430 on my hit list
J
joust said:
...and I've still got the 430 on my hit list
J
J
Thats the one to have.... the 430 is much larger leap forward dynamically than the 360 was over the 355 (indeed many - myself included - find the 355 a nicer drive). Performance, sound, handling, comfort, useable; its just a shame its not a little prettier....
pre 02 cars do have a few F1 gremlins . There's an update for ECU available but i 'm not sure all cars will have newest software- £800 upgrade.
FWIW, coming from a manual 355 to a semi auto F1 in CS was quite a culture shock. The box is not that gr8 in stop start traffic and you have to make sure the clutch take up point is set relatively gently. I prefer the man box for parking/low speed but CS F1 on move, in RACE mode, is unbeatable IMO
FWIW, coming from a manual 355 to a semi auto F1 in CS was quite a culture shock. The box is not that gr8 in stop start traffic and you have to make sure the clutch take up point is set relatively gently. I prefer the man box for parking/low speed but CS F1 on move, in RACE mode, is unbeatable IMO
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff