sr3 or sr4 and where to go for secondhand
Discussion
hi guys, i have just sold my 911 gt2 and have recently been taken around the ascari circuit in spain in an sr3 which has totally blown my mind so am now keen to buy one for myself.
Please excuse my ignorance but in simple terms what is the difference twixt the sr3 and sr4? i am 6ft 4 tall so can just get into an sr3 but have been told you can change the seating and pedals?? also any advice on where to go for a good condition, well priced example.
The one thing that everyone keeps saying to me that is worrying me is the running costs of a radical escpecially engine rebuild every 30 hrs, can you please give me some honest advice on this.
Thanks a lot and I hope to meet some of you next year at trackdays.
Mike
Please excuse my ignorance but in simple terms what is the difference twixt the sr3 and sr4? i am 6ft 4 tall so can just get into an sr3 but have been told you can change the seating and pedals?? also any advice on where to go for a good condition, well priced example.
The one thing that everyone keeps saying to me that is worrying me is the running costs of a radical escpecially engine rebuild every 30 hrs, can you please give me some honest advice on this.
Thanks a lot and I hope to meet some of you next year at trackdays.
Mike
Mike, I have just been through this particular quandary and obtained a radical SR3 of 2003 manufacture. I was taking my BMW Z4 to the track on regular outing clocking up about 12 track days in the first 10 months of me starting track days last year.
It then got to the point where 3.0 ltr was not enough because it eventually felt slow. Also after considering all of the upgrade options like brakes, suspension and whatever it looked like getting a little more pace was going to cost me greatly.
So I decided to keep the Z4 and buy a Radical SR3. the outfit I purchased (advertised on pistonheads) cost me £25K including a BJ SR3 A series trailer. It also had a set of nearly new wets as spares to the slicks it was running. This was the same money I would have had to spent to upgrade my Z4 to a Z4///M. so in many respects it was a no brainer. In 2 years of ownership of the ///M it would have lost the £25K or so given their rate of depreciation.
Took ownership of the Radical in late September and looked it over. The receipts I got with the car showed that the engine had been refreshed recently and I was assured that the track use was about 6 hours.
First trip out to Rockingham and did most of the day (yes it is blindingly fast) overtook most cars on the track after a slow start, but not being a really accomplished driver the guys in the Exige and 911 GT3 RS were too fast for my skill level to keep up, let alone not knowing fully what the car was about anyway.
Towards the end of the day the LHS (short one) snapped.
Repaired this my self with a new upgraded shaft from radical ( if you are not mechanically minded and competent then don’t by the Radical unless you can afford a spanner man! Including some oils and exhaust wadding and other bits and bobs like lower suspension bearings and what have you this was £200 to fix.
Tool it to Santa pod in a “run what you brung” to check out the work I had done and to see if any additional harm had been done during the shaft failure. It hadn’t and the car did a ¼ in 12.43s with ER 108mph. (wheel spin for about 60 ft)
So it was off to Spa Franchorchamps for a nice track day. At Spa it did about 20 or so laps where the cam chain promptly snapped. That was day over them!. I took the engine apart to see what had happened and found the chain broken – BUGGER!
The car was taken to radical and they removed the engine and gave it to Powertech who stripped it down and provided me with the evaluation of cost and that the engine in their opinion had only done about 10 hours since they last worked on it.
I have had a new “roller chain” fitted instead of the Halfords chain they always fit. It was only another £150 more than an original and to me it is a no brainer to always install this chain.
They told me that a whole series of parts were lifed and that the pistons, gearbox bearings, clutch basket were at the end of their life and it was their recommendation to replace them. (We do this sort of scare mongering in our business and its not nice to be on the receiving end of this tactic).
Additionally I had a new set of MkII rods fitted as the difference between not having them and going with my existing was £680. (old rods would need new bolts @£200).
Got it back this Saturday with a whole in my bank balance of £5,000 including the labour to remove / reinstall, shake down, dyno and flat patch.
At Rockingham yesterday the car went marvellously (well like it had done before the engine expired).
Mid way through the day the starter motor expired. Took it apart and found it had literally disintegrated.
Now I can’t say that all this is not fun because it is. Having the 2 seat capability is definitely a bonus for carrying passengers to enjoy the fun of scare sh*tless.
However reliable like a Porsche it isn’t!
So my total investment is now £30K. With a new covered in trailer on its way before the end of the month (because the car stinks of petrol and is making the house smell like a petrol forecourt)
Total investment no nearly £38K!
I LEAVE IT TO YOU TO DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS AND DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.
As some of you may have already seen and read about the saga of my Radical SR3 having the cam chain break. i thought i would finish off the story with is post.
I got the car back today and all of the original bits were in a cardboard box ready for inspection.
here are the valves, i think they possibly used a laser alignment system to see just how out of true they were, as i can't see any problem with them?
here is the proformer to show me what they wanted to change out. I wonder if any bits are original
Safe and sound in the
Dario
It then got to the point where 3.0 ltr was not enough because it eventually felt slow. Also after considering all of the upgrade options like brakes, suspension and whatever it looked like getting a little more pace was going to cost me greatly.
So I decided to keep the Z4 and buy a Radical SR3. the outfit I purchased (advertised on pistonheads) cost me £25K including a BJ SR3 A series trailer. It also had a set of nearly new wets as spares to the slicks it was running. This was the same money I would have had to spent to upgrade my Z4 to a Z4///M. so in many respects it was a no brainer. In 2 years of ownership of the ///M it would have lost the £25K or so given their rate of depreciation.
Took ownership of the Radical in late September and looked it over. The receipts I got with the car showed that the engine had been refreshed recently and I was assured that the track use was about 6 hours.
First trip out to Rockingham and did most of the day (yes it is blindingly fast) overtook most cars on the track after a slow start, but not being a really accomplished driver the guys in the Exige and 911 GT3 RS were too fast for my skill level to keep up, let alone not knowing fully what the car was about anyway.
Towards the end of the day the LHS (short one) snapped.
Repaired this my self with a new upgraded shaft from radical ( if you are not mechanically minded and competent then don’t by the Radical unless you can afford a spanner man! Including some oils and exhaust wadding and other bits and bobs like lower suspension bearings and what have you this was £200 to fix.
Tool it to Santa pod in a “run what you brung” to check out the work I had done and to see if any additional harm had been done during the shaft failure. It hadn’t and the car did a ¼ in 12.43s with ER 108mph. (wheel spin for about 60 ft)
So it was off to Spa Franchorchamps for a nice track day. At Spa it did about 20 or so laps where the cam chain promptly snapped. That was day over them!. I took the engine apart to see what had happened and found the chain broken – BUGGER!
The car was taken to radical and they removed the engine and gave it to Powertech who stripped it down and provided me with the evaluation of cost and that the engine in their opinion had only done about 10 hours since they last worked on it.
I have had a new “roller chain” fitted instead of the Halfords chain they always fit. It was only another £150 more than an original and to me it is a no brainer to always install this chain.
They told me that a whole series of parts were lifed and that the pistons, gearbox bearings, clutch basket were at the end of their life and it was their recommendation to replace them. (We do this sort of scare mongering in our business and its not nice to be on the receiving end of this tactic).
Additionally I had a new set of MkII rods fitted as the difference between not having them and going with my existing was £680. (old rods would need new bolts @£200).
Got it back this Saturday with a whole in my bank balance of £5,000 including the labour to remove / reinstall, shake down, dyno and flat patch.
At Rockingham yesterday the car went marvellously (well like it had done before the engine expired).
Mid way through the day the starter motor expired. Took it apart and found it had literally disintegrated.
Now I can’t say that all this is not fun because it is. Having the 2 seat capability is definitely a bonus for carrying passengers to enjoy the fun of scare sh*tless.
However reliable like a Porsche it isn’t!
So my total investment is now £30K. With a new covered in trailer on its way before the end of the month (because the car stinks of petrol and is making the house smell like a petrol forecourt)
Total investment no nearly £38K!
I LEAVE IT TO YOU TO DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS AND DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.
As some of you may have already seen and read about the saga of my Radical SR3 having the cam chain break. i thought i would finish off the story with is post.
I got the car back today and all of the original bits were in a cardboard box ready for inspection.
here are the valves, i think they possibly used a laser alignment system to see just how out of true they were, as i can't see any problem with them?
here is the proformer to show me what they wanted to change out. I wonder if any bits are original
Safe and sound in the
Dario
Edited by dariot on Monday 13th November 08:37
owwww that would hurt for me..
on the other side of radical ownership i bought an entry level clubsport for £10k in the summer which included a refreshed ZZR1100. which was and still is immaculate.
I have completed 5 trackdays without an issue. I have averaged maybe 80 laps per trackday and have done nearly 11hours actual running with the last oulton day burning off 72litres of fuel and the engine still feels crisp. Comparing this to my previous motorsport background "superkarts" its a world away, where after 20mins on those the whole machine needs rebuilding
i believe i have "pushed" the car and am pleased with my laptimes as i intend to race next year.
The only issue i have had in all this time was a flat battery which was my fault
Maybe everything will come at once so to be sure I am currently looking for a spare motor where i hope i can get a base for as little as £500.
The only downside at the moment its costing a fortune in fuel :-)
However I know that racing is a different matter, as that extra half sec stresses the machine 10fold.
on the other side of radical ownership i bought an entry level clubsport for £10k in the summer which included a refreshed ZZR1100. which was and still is immaculate.
I have completed 5 trackdays without an issue. I have averaged maybe 80 laps per trackday and have done nearly 11hours actual running with the last oulton day burning off 72litres of fuel and the engine still feels crisp. Comparing this to my previous motorsport background "superkarts" its a world away, where after 20mins on those the whole machine needs rebuilding
i believe i have "pushed" the car and am pleased with my laptimes as i intend to race next year.
The only issue i have had in all this time was a flat battery which was my fault
Maybe everything will come at once so to be sure I am currently looking for a spare motor where i hope i can get a base for as little as £500.
The only downside at the moment its costing a fortune in fuel :-)
However I know that racing is a different matter, as that extra half sec stresses the machine 10fold.
Hi Mike,
As a SR3 owner that races in my local series I have to be honest that the costs are not as frightening as some people say. Of course, being a racecar it has to be maintained and there are checks that even the most novice of mechanic can do to maximise its longetivity which is well within anyone's reach. Parts are in easy supply and there are a few people out there with 2nd hand spares that can help keep the costs down. If you are considering a Radical series or even another dedicated race series then of course your normal race costs will reflect its use. Also a replacement engine to meet the Radical series standards (sealed) will be expensive but you can now obtain engines from Powertec which carry a user warranty which seems to be very effective. For general track use the engine if cared for with regular oil changes, driven accordingly should last a long time! and you could use the services of other engine builders to rebuild your engine if the need ever arises. Also, there are plenty of people on hand to offer free advice so you have no worries there. My own SR3 was fitted with a 1500cc which was wicked but is now fitted with a 1300cc but Supercharged and its performance is absolutely awesome, mind blowing in fact and well worth the hours of toil in the garage. But if you want a chat about the SR3 and get some 'true' costs then drop me your details. Hope I've kept your interest in this great race car.
Mydrian
As a SR3 owner that races in my local series I have to be honest that the costs are not as frightening as some people say. Of course, being a racecar it has to be maintained and there are checks that even the most novice of mechanic can do to maximise its longetivity which is well within anyone's reach. Parts are in easy supply and there are a few people out there with 2nd hand spares that can help keep the costs down. If you are considering a Radical series or even another dedicated race series then of course your normal race costs will reflect its use. Also a replacement engine to meet the Radical series standards (sealed) will be expensive but you can now obtain engines from Powertec which carry a user warranty which seems to be very effective. For general track use the engine if cared for with regular oil changes, driven accordingly should last a long time! and you could use the services of other engine builders to rebuild your engine if the need ever arises. Also, there are plenty of people on hand to offer free advice so you have no worries there. My own SR3 was fitted with a 1500cc which was wicked but is now fitted with a 1300cc but Supercharged and its performance is absolutely awesome, mind blowing in fact and well worth the hours of toil in the garage. But if you want a chat about the SR3 and get some 'true' costs then drop me your details. Hope I've kept your interest in this great race car.
Mydrian
My experience is much the same as Graham's; bought a lightly raced, well-maintained, specced-up Clubsport 1100 and I bought a top of the range BJ trailer for less than £10K all in. I bought it as a track car with performance I could grow into, as like yourself with the Z4, a road car can never really cut it on track.
Costs depend on how much breaks! The car seems generally strong and all the consumables are cheaply sourced. The powertrain is where things can go wrong, I guess in many ways you just have to be lucky and/or careful. The last tenth of performance is where most of the stress happens; I was told that if I redline the 1100 to 11000 then my rebuild costs will be in the thousands but if I keep it under 10000 then it will be in the hundreds. Equally, you don't *have* to go to Radical/Powertec for engine work, if you're not racing.
It sounds like you're considering a car for track use not racing. If that's the case, it may be worth your while looking for a Clubsport or Prosport. They're not much slower than SR3/4's (being lighter and a touch nimbler) but considerably cheaper to purchase and you won't feel quite so compelled to go to Radical for everything.
I'm a lardy 6'2" and I fit in the clubsport just fine. If you're anywhere near the Southeast, feel free to look me up and come and sit in the thing for sizing.
Costs depend on how much breaks! The car seems generally strong and all the consumables are cheaply sourced. The powertrain is where things can go wrong, I guess in many ways you just have to be lucky and/or careful. The last tenth of performance is where most of the stress happens; I was told that if I redline the 1100 to 11000 then my rebuild costs will be in the thousands but if I keep it under 10000 then it will be in the hundreds. Equally, you don't *have* to go to Radical/Powertec for engine work, if you're not racing.
It sounds like you're considering a car for track use not racing. If that's the case, it may be worth your while looking for a Clubsport or Prosport. They're not much slower than SR3/4's (being lighter and a touch nimbler) but considerably cheaper to purchase and you won't feel quite so compelled to go to Radical for everything.
I'm a lardy 6'2" and I fit in the clubsport just fine. If you're anywhere near the Southeast, feel free to look me up and come and sit in the thing for sizing.
I've got one of Van's 2 seat conversions as well and I fit fine at 6'2 and around 90kg. I did have Van add an extension to roll bar for some extra (perhaps only mental) security. The seats in the conversions are a little higher than the orginal.
As for costs, I picked mine up for £11K (car plus conversion).
As for costs, I picked mine up for £11K (car plus conversion).
Edited by jon_watson on Thursday 16th November 09:25
I should add up my bills from 2 years of SR3 1500 trackday ownership, but Dariot, sounds like you were a bit unlucky! I lost absolutely no track time, which looking back now was quite remarkable. Better than my Caterham! Nothing surprising on the yearly engine rebuilds, and the only mechanical failure was the starter sprag - but usually plenty of people happy to give you a push start.
I sold mine on pistonheads almost 2 years ago, and pretty quickly too. I was thinking of advertising on racecarsdirect too.
I sold mine on pistonheads almost 2 years ago, and pretty quickly too. I was thinking of advertising on racecarsdirect too.
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