IAM - how to attract younger drivers?
Discussion
What with all this talk of crap drivers (I take speeding driver to mean rubbish drivers in the news now) - shouldn't the IAM be doing more to encourage young drivers to to take the Advanced driving course?
They seem to have the dullest website on the internet and I couldn't find anything on Nigel Mansell on that site ANYWHERE! Isn't he meant to be their main ambassador now?
So, I have a couple of questions:
Isn't it time they dropped the 'safety' monicker and went more along the line of 'greater car control and improved driving'?
And,
Can you get a discount on car insurance if you have an IAM qualification and, if you do, roughly how much?
Cheers guys.
They seem to have the dullest website on the internet and I couldn't find anything on Nigel Mansell on that site ANYWHERE! Isn't he meant to be their main ambassador now?
So, I have a couple of questions:
Isn't it time they dropped the 'safety' monicker and went more along the line of 'greater car control and improved driving'?
And,
Can you get a discount on car insurance if you have an IAM qualification and, if you do, roughly how much?
Cheers guys.
MrKipling43 said:
Isn't it time they dropped the 'safety' monicker and went more along the line of 'greater car control and improved driving'?
No. Safety has been a key aspect of the Institute for 50 years. The idea is to improve safety by 'greater car control and improved driving' etc etc. But you can't seperate the two IMO.
MrKipling43 said:
Can you get a discount on car insurance if you have an IAM qualification and, if you do, roughly how much?
You can get a discount. Depends who you insure through, of course. Elephant do a discount. Its not much, though.
To answer the question - how do we get younger drivers to come along?
1) Get to them young. Do presentations in schools to 16 year olds.
2) Pull no punches in the presentations. Include graphic pictures of the consequences of road accidents. Tell them that in 97% of cases what caused the accident was the driver.
3) Before they even start learning to drive let them know that after the test is the most dangerous period. The death toll in the young driver bracket has increased recently (by about 40% I heard bandied about). Scare them shitless.
4) Tell them of the dangers of drink driving, drugged driving and OVERCONFIDENCE!
5) Explain the hierarchy of driver qualifications: DSA Test, Pass Plus, IAM/ROSPA, HPC.
6) Outline the statistic that Advanced Drivers have ish 20% fewer prangs and these are less serious.
7) Ask if they want to live. Ask if they'd like slightly cheaper insurance.
I have considered producing a presentation for the above in the past and offering it to all the local schools, sixth form colleges and techs.
Don said:
MrKipling43 said:
Isn't it time they dropped the 'safety' monicker and went more along the line of 'greater car control and improved driving'?
No. Safety has been a key aspect of the Institute for 50 years. The idea is to improve safety by 'greater car control and improved driving' etc etc. But you can't seperate the two IMO.
Sorry, didn't make myself clear... for 'Da yoof' promote the idea the that safety stems from 'greater car control and improved driving' - but pull them in with the greater car control part instead of safety, rather than seperate the two issues.
One of the ideas I had was to to 'IAM camps' based out of race circuits for a weekend. They can drive on the circuit and be taught on the surrounding roads by specially trained race drivers. Much 'cooler' than joining a local IAM club full of Saab drivers
Thanks for the info.
Edited by MrKipling43 on Wednesday 15th November 12:50
Don said:
1) Get to them young. Do presentations in schools to 16 year olds.
2) Pull no punches in the presentations. Include graphic pictures of the consequences of road accidents. Tell them that in 97% of cases what caused the accident was the driver.
3) Before they even start learning to drive let them know that after the test is the most dangerous period. The death toll in the young driver bracket has increased recently (by about 40% I heard bandied about). Scare them shitless.
4) Tell them of the dangers of drink driving, drugged driving and OVERCONFIDENCE!
5) Explain the hierarchy of driver qualifications: DSA Test, Pass Plus, IAM/ROSPA, HPC.
6) Outline the statistic that Advanced Drivers have ish 20% fewer prangs and these are less serious.
7) Ask if they want to live. Ask if they'd like slightly cheaper insurance.
Don - I know where you are coming from, but I'm not sure it will work as much as we would like it to.
For some of the younger ones today, I promise you that you cannot scare them sh!tless. Trust me. Tell them what you want about the death toll. Show them the stats, and the figures, and the dangers. Show them the pictures. They will laugh in your face. It's not just a front either, they genuinely dont care, and they don't think it will happen to them. To be totally honest, when I was their age, I was the same. The only one that might, just might, interest them is number 6, but not really, 'cos they don't think they will have a prang anyway.
We've got to do it another way. The ones who are sensible will react to the above, but they ain't the problem (often). We need to stop saying how we will interest them, and we need to start asking them what to do to make it interesting. Which is a big problem. Because we might not like the answer.
We've also got to stop even talking about the Insurance side, which is so insignificant that it is embarressing. Some of these Scuffers are spending in excess of £5k on the ICE. Do you think they give a monkeys t@ss about the £5 saving.
So lets cut to the chase and ask the little gits direct. But lets be ready for some very blunt answers.
BFF
Big Fat F'er said:
For some of the younger ones today, I promise you that you cannot scare them sh!tless. Trust me. Tell them what you want about the death toll. Show them the stats, and the figures, and the dangers. Show them the pictures. They will laugh in your face. It's not just a front either, they genuinely dont care, and they don't think it will happen to them. To be totally honest, when I was their age, I was the same. The only one that might, just might, interest them is number 6, but not really, 'cos they don't think they will have a prang anyway.
We've got to do it another way. The ones who are sensible will react to the above, but they ain't the problem (often). We need to stop saying how we will interest them, and we need to start asking them what to do to make it interesting. Which is a big problem. Because we might not like the answer.
We've also got to stop even talking about the Insurance side, which is so insignificant that it is embarressing. Some of these Scuffers are spending in excess of £5k on the ICE. Do you think they give a monkeys t@ss about the £5 saving.
So lets cut to the chase and ask the little gits direct. But lets be ready for some very blunt answers.
BFF
Good post.
Another suggestion (and I'm serious): When IAM members go out recruiting at some sort of venue, be it a car show or whatever, get them to wear pringle sweaters less.
I agree with the man who suggested get kids onto a race track with a capable driver. 
's sake, they don't teach boys metalwork at school now, but they give them a driving licence and hope for the best. It's criminally negligent.
Plus if you could get some of the current and ex F1 and rally stars to take part in the programme and repay some of their debt to society, like Jackie Stewart has done, I think that you would get through to them.
What would be wrong with getting a ten year old behind the wheel of a kart,
or a fourteen year old behind the wheel of a car,
and actually show them what is meant by opposite lock, let them do it and understand why its ok on a racetrack but not on the road.
I also think that, like a lot of things, the younger you get through to them, the more receptive they are.
's sake, they don't teach boys metalwork at school now, but they give them a driving licence and hope for the best. It's criminally negligent. Plus if you could get some of the current and ex F1 and rally stars to take part in the programme and repay some of their debt to society, like Jackie Stewart has done, I think that you would get through to them.
What would be wrong with getting a ten year old behind the wheel of a kart,
or a fourteen year old behind the wheel of a car, and actually show them what is meant by opposite lock, let them do it and understand why its ok on a racetrack but not on the road. I also think that, like a lot of things, the younger you get through to them, the more receptive they are.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 15th November 18:00
They ran Max Driver or some such thing in conjuction with Max Power a while back. Not sure how succesful it was though.
A thought springs to mind though about getting them young - how do you convince kids/parents who've been conditioned to think < limit = safe, > limit = unsafe, that they need to do anything other than stick to speed limits to be safe drivers?
A thought springs to mind though about getting them young - how do you convince kids/parents who've been conditioned to think < limit = safe, > limit = unsafe, that they need to do anything other than stick to speed limits to be safe drivers?
BFF - I tend to agree with what you've said on this topic, so may I repeat a contribution I made on another forum in relation to new young drivers:
"....right from the start of their involvement with driving instructors there has to be some attempt to understand what they want out of their motoring, and find some way of satisfying their aspirations. As far as I am concerned if this means partially turning a blind eye to NSL legalities and concentrating in teaching them to be safe, then do it. At the end of the day what is most important - being law abiding or being safe? Lecturing them about how naughty it is to want to drive fast will simply switch them off, and no good will be achieved if that happens. What is needed is the right sort of communication and understanding, and then it might be possible to steer most of them into a style whereby their enjoyment derives from showing off good driving skills - using low speed and restraint where appropriate, but also equipping them to drive faster (but still safely) when the circumstances are suitable. It might of course be wishful thinking on my part, but I suspect that many young drivers would respect that and go along with it.
To my mind the fact that we have the NSL is actually counterproductive in this, because it prevents driving instructors from teaching what the youngsters need to learn. Whether we like it or not, high speed is what they want, so they'll do it, so we ought to be teaching them how to do it properly - and I do not support the idea of trying to prevent them from enjoying that."
Best wishes all,
Dave.
"....right from the start of their involvement with driving instructors there has to be some attempt to understand what they want out of their motoring, and find some way of satisfying their aspirations. As far as I am concerned if this means partially turning a blind eye to NSL legalities and concentrating in teaching them to be safe, then do it. At the end of the day what is most important - being law abiding or being safe? Lecturing them about how naughty it is to want to drive fast will simply switch them off, and no good will be achieved if that happens. What is needed is the right sort of communication and understanding, and then it might be possible to steer most of them into a style whereby their enjoyment derives from showing off good driving skills - using low speed and restraint where appropriate, but also equipping them to drive faster (but still safely) when the circumstances are suitable. It might of course be wishful thinking on my part, but I suspect that many young drivers would respect that and go along with it.
To my mind the fact that we have the NSL is actually counterproductive in this, because it prevents driving instructors from teaching what the youngsters need to learn. Whether we like it or not, high speed is what they want, so they'll do it, so we ought to be teaching them how to do it properly - and I do not support the idea of trying to prevent them from enjoying that."
Best wishes all,
Dave.
BFF - very good post.
But what if we simply find out they like driving likes and that's what they want to do? All we could show them would be how to drive like with better skills!
I know there will always be a "hard core" we cannot get to. These people should simply be executed in my view. Since that won't be acceptable 
to most of society then lets hope they are found and banned and imprisoned if they break the ban quickly. Even better would be of they execute themselves without harming anyone else. Sadly this is unlikely!
Since we can't get through to the hard-core its our job to get through to the ones that are ignorant - but might listen. If there are enough of them - and they want to live enough - maybe they'll exert peer pressure on the hardcore ones and save them from themselves.
Personally I reckon if we get to the girls the boys will follow.
My presentation would be about "What does driving mean to you?" Try and get them to answer...
- Freedom (all sorts of responses for this)
- Responsibility
I'll bet in most classes you might get *one* that comes up with a response along the lines of "responsibility". There's a chance that could be used as a lever and start to get to work.
But what if we simply find out they like driving like
s and that's what they want to do? All we could show them would be how to drive like with better skills! I know there will always be a "hard core" we cannot get to. These people should simply be executed in my view.
Since that won't be acceptable to most of society then lets hope they are found and banned and imprisoned if they break the ban quickly. Even better would be of they execute themselves without harming anyone else. Sadly this is unlikely! Since we can't get through to the hard-core its our job to get through to the ones that are ignorant - but might listen. If there are enough of them - and they want to live enough - maybe they'll exert peer pressure on the hardcore ones and save them from themselves.
Personally I reckon if we get to the girls the boys will follow.
My presentation would be about "What does driving mean to you?" Try and get them to answer...
- Freedom (all sorts of responses for this)
- Responsibility
I'll bet in most classes you might get *one* that comes up with a response along the lines of "responsibility". There's a chance that could be used as a lever and start to get to work.
Hmmmm its an interesting post! Ill be glad to help...being young and on the road for just under a month. Even though I’ve had quite a bit of experience I know how some of my friends drive and it is pretty shocking! Most seem to think that they are the next Michael Schumacher and that they are invincible!
I’m pretty sure that all young lads would sign up to a course that was based around motorsport and maybe carried out on a race track.
Michal
I’m pretty sure that all young lads would sign up to a course that was based around motorsport and maybe carried out on a race track.
Michal
little RZD said:
Hmmmm its an interesting post! Ill be glad to help...being young and on the road for just under a month. Even though I’ve had quite a bit of experience I know how some of my friends drive and it is pretty shocking! Most seem to think that they are the next Michael Schumacher and that they are invincible!
I’m pretty sure that all young lads would sign up to a course that was based around motorsport and maybe carried out on a race track.
Michal
I’m pretty sure that all young lads would sign up to a course that was based around motorsport and maybe carried out on a race track.
Michal
Good post! Thanks for contributing!
The problem is what do you teach someone at a race track that can be applied to the road. The disciplines of driving on track and on the road are totally different - despite a "car" being used for both of them!
I can think of things one could do at an airfield venue, though.
Say...
1) Practical examples of stopping the car from 30, 60, 90, maxed out. Cones to show how long it takes.
2) Braking and cornering. Do a tight turn, do a brake when turning, try and catch the spin...see how easy it is to spin.
3) Spraying water on the same curve - having another go to demonstrate what happens.
etc, etc. The IAM do all this stuff for its members, actually. And at placed like Bedford Autodrome.
The problem is: its expensive due to the venue cost.
How much do you think young lads and lasses would be happy to pay for a 1 day course. Half a day at an airfield doing exercises in car control and half a day on the road?
Ride-Drive (et al) would charge £300 - £500 for that. Maybe an IAM Group could run it for less...? Depends on venue hire costs and whether or not enough volunteer Observers can be found who could oversee competently the handling excercises.
Don said:
little RZD said:
Hmmmm its an interesting post! Ill be glad to help...being young and on the road for just under a month. Even though I’ve had quite a bit of experience I know how some of my friends drive and it is pretty shocking! Most seem to think that they are the next Michael Schumacher and that they are invincible!
I’m pretty sure that all young lads would sign up to a course that was based around motorsport and maybe carried out on a race track.
Michal
I’m pretty sure that all young lads would sign up to a course that was based around motorsport and maybe carried out on a race track.
Michal
Good post! Thanks for contributing!
The problem is what do you teach someone at a race track that can be applied to the road. The disciplines of driving on track and on the road are totally different - despite a "car" being used for both of them!
I can think of things one could do at an airfield venue, though.
Say...
1) Practical examples of stopping the car from 30, 60, 90, maxed out. Cones to show how long it takes.
2) Braking and cornering. Do a tight turn, do a brake when turning, try and catch the spin...see how easy it is to spin.
3) Spraying water on the same curve - having another go to demonstrate what happens.
etc, etc. The IAM do all this stuff for its members, actually. And at placed like Bedford Autodrome.
The problem is: its expensive due to the venue cost.
How much do you think young lads and lasses would be happy to pay for a 1 day course. Half a day at an airfield doing exercises in car control and half a day on the road?
Ride-Drive (et al) would charge £300 - £500 for that. Maybe an IAM Group could run it for less...? Depends on venue hire costs and whether or not enough volunteer Observers can be found who could oversee competently the handling excercises.
I see where you are coming from! I like the idea of something like a ride drive course although i feel it all comes down to money.
I dont want to be stereotypical but i think that it is the young lads who buy a cheap car and modify it who are the most at risk and IMO they would not have the necessary funds to pay for such a course which is so vital for young drivers.
Would there be any chance of some sort of government grant?
I think that race track tuition would teach young people a lot about how to react if you are caught out in slippery weather, also would a session on a skid pan help?
Michal
Edited by little RZD on Wednesday 15th November 20:13
Wow! There are some great ideas here.
As for what can be taught to kids on a track... I think RZD summed it up perfectly - it's all about teaching what do do when they (inevitably) experiment with their car's limits. Accept that fact that many of them may drive a bit too quickly and take a pragmatic approach to teaching them how to deal with it. I particularly like the idea of the water-soaked corner.
There's nothing worse for a late teen than being PROVED wrong... if you said to them, "right, drive round this corner as quickly as you can", they will think they're Jenson Button. Until, that is, you send a racing driver round who carries another 10mph with them in the car - watch their face drop and their attention level soar!
'Teenagers: know your limits!"
Anyway, all race circuits are near real roads... you could take them out onto roads as well as on the track.
As for the insurance thing: I've been driving for seven years and Admiral knocked £100 off my quote for being an advanced driver... yes, that £100 NOT £10. Whichever way you cut it, that's a fair chunk of money for me - imagine the savings for an 18 year old!
As for what can be taught to kids on a track... I think RZD summed it up perfectly - it's all about teaching what do do when they (inevitably) experiment with their car's limits. Accept that fact that many of them may drive a bit too quickly and take a pragmatic approach to teaching them how to deal with it. I particularly like the idea of the water-soaked corner.
There's nothing worse for a late teen than being PROVED wrong... if you said to them, "right, drive round this corner as quickly as you can", they will think they're Jenson Button. Until, that is, you send a racing driver round who carries another 10mph with them in the car - watch their face drop and their attention level soar!
'Teenagers: know your limits!"
Anyway, all race circuits are near real roads... you could take them out onto roads as well as on the track.
As for the insurance thing: I've been driving for seven years and Admiral knocked £100 off my quote for being an advanced driver... yes, that £100 NOT £10. Whichever way you cut it, that's a fair chunk of money for me - imagine the savings for an 18 year old!
I learnt most of my car control hooning around a muddy field while at Uni. Muddy field included an oval big enough for 4-5 cars at a time with no contact danger defined by a cone at each end. After an hour or two messing about, you can start, hold and recover skids on throttle, brake, clutch, handbrake. Then swop for a friend's car with the wheels driven at the other end I think that passing your test ought to include an "afternoon spent sliding round a muddy field" certifcate. Should be a lot cheaper than a track day, too!
I think that passing your test ought to include an "afternoon spent sliding round a muddy field" certifcate. Should be a lot cheaper than a track day, too!
Was at the NEC bike show a few Sundays back and I have to say they were running some cracking footage of a biker demonstrating quick but safe progress along a busy entertaining road.
Consequentley 2 of the younger members ( 17 and 18 ) of our group expressed a keen interest in further training. Well done IAM !
Consequentley 2 of the younger members ( 17 and 18 ) of our group expressed a keen interest in further training. Well done IAM !
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