NIPS - English verdict?
Discussion
Well after 20 years of having a clean licence I got a NIPS in the post,(addressed to my wife).The allegation leads me to think a gatso may be the culprit. The car's registered to my wife so she will say it was me driving. I think that then I shall get the nips sent to me and I shall probably request to see the evidence but make no admissions so won't be sending the form back in a hurry. I read the earlier postings re: the welsh driver who completed but didn't sign the form. I think his case was dismissed. A friend here also didn't sign the form but the police posted it back to him so he signed it.
So, what's the latest news about this potential loophole in English law? I don't think my wife can be forced to give evidence against me and if there'e just a pic of a car with my reg no then that might not be me either. How can they prove the case? I have 28 days before I send the form back which was sent to my wife. Any ideas? Thanks.
So, what's the latest news about this potential loophole in English law? I don't think my wife can be forced to give evidence against me and if there'e just a pic of a car with my reg no then that might not be me either. How can they prove the case? I have 28 days before I send the form back which was sent to my wife. Any ideas? Thanks.
Thanks so far. I'm not going to ignore it but I am going to wait as long as 21 days before it's sent back by my wife and then have a fresh nips sent to me. Then I shall ask for the evidence and not make any admissions etc. It was a camera and I shall look at the site sometime soon. I'm really trying to find out what people here have been doing and have they been signing the returned NIPS? The other thread implied that by signing it, it became admissable as prosecution evidence. Is the potential fine £60 and you also get a bonus 3 points?
My mate did this (ie ignored the NIP) and has so far got away with it.
He has had two in the last year and has ignored both, the first one (about 8 months ago IIRC) he has heard nothing about.
The second was a little later and he had a letter to the effect of "why haven't you signed and returned it etc etc, take you to court etc etc.." he wrote a very nice letter back aplogising saying he did not recall having the NIP, but confirms he takes the route everyday so he may well have been travelling that road that day and asked them to re-send the NIP so he could check it and sign it.
That was a few months ago (before Christmas) and has heard nothing back since.
I am not in any way condoning this action, nor suggesting that it is the right thing to do if you want to avoid the points etc, just retelling the story.
Different Police forces may, of course act, in different ways.
Another friend was snapped doing 98 and was expecting 6 points - he wrote a letter to the CC and explained that he had been driving x number of years, nothing as much as a parking ticket in that time, he was very sorry and full of remorse etc and got it reduced to 3 points.
Sister in law was snapped by the same Camera (the mobile unit that usually sits on the bridge on the M4 just before the Pencoed sign for those who do that road) - She wrote to the CC and admitted it was her etc and said the realised she shouldn't have but was visiting father who had just had major heart surgery (true) and gave his case number, consultants name etc and was completely let off.
IMO try the nice letter but the ignoring "appears" to have worked in one case I know.
Good Luck
Paul
He has had two in the last year and has ignored both, the first one (about 8 months ago IIRC) he has heard nothing about.
The second was a little later and he had a letter to the effect of "why haven't you signed and returned it etc etc, take you to court etc etc.." he wrote a very nice letter back aplogising saying he did not recall having the NIP, but confirms he takes the route everyday so he may well have been travelling that road that day and asked them to re-send the NIP so he could check it and sign it.
That was a few months ago (before Christmas) and has heard nothing back since.
I am not in any way condoning this action, nor suggesting that it is the right thing to do if you want to avoid the points etc, just retelling the story.
Different Police forces may, of course act, in different ways.
Another friend was snapped doing 98 and was expecting 6 points - he wrote a letter to the CC and explained that he had been driving x number of years, nothing as much as a parking ticket in that time, he was very sorry and full of remorse etc and got it reduced to 3 points.
Sister in law was snapped by the same Camera (the mobile unit that usually sits on the bridge on the M4 just before the Pencoed sign for those who do that road) - She wrote to the CC and admitted it was her etc and said the realised she shouldn't have but was visiting father who had just had major heart surgery (true) and gave his case number, consultants name etc and was completely let off.
IMO try the nice letter but the ignoring "appears" to have worked in one case I know.
Good Luck
Paul
regmolehusband said: Dave - that was a totally uninformed, inaccurate and unhelpful post. They don't have to be sent by registered post.
Boosted - you should check the Safespeed website for the latest info on non-signing of the NIP.
>> Edited by regmolehusband on Thursday 20th March 19:47
Hi Ken, thanks for the info. I found the site and it looks interesting. The hole may still be open. I shall ponder this over for a while and see if anybody else has recently dealt with this situation ie, not signed the NIPS!
Mike, AFAIK you can only ask for the evidence if pleading 'not guilty' and going to court. Your wife, however, could ask for the photo to help her determine who was driving as she is unsure because you both drive the car. If it is unclear from the photo a statement that she is unsure and cannot tell from the photo should be sufficient to clear the books.
Police do not even have to prove you received the NIP if there is a suggestion that you have made things difficult for its service on you. Buggering around telling them you might not have received it or have never had any knowledge of an NIP is no bar to prosecution.
A copy of the NIP form (they are self carbonating and in triplicate) is attached to the relevant court file with the method of service endorsed on its rear side.
This includes verbally at the time of being stopped for an offence or sending NIP to your last known address, leaving it with a person who is livng at your last know address or personal service on you or a person at your last known address.
The only way out of certain prosecution where NIP is concerned is if it has been sent out of time, i.e. 14 days after the date on which the offence was committed so in reality 15 days.
A copy of the NIP form (they are self carbonating and in triplicate) is attached to the relevant court file with the method of service endorsed on its rear side.
This includes verbally at the time of being stopped for an offence or sending NIP to your last known address, leaving it with a person who is livng at your last know address or personal service on you or a person at your last known address.
The only way out of certain prosecution where NIP is concerned is if it has been sent out of time, i.e. 14 days after the date on which the offence was committed so in reality 15 days.
madcop said: Police do not even have to prove you received the NIP if there is a suggestion that you have made things difficult for its service on you. Buggering around telling them you might not have received it or have never had any knowledge of an NIP is no bar to prosecution.
A copy of the NIP form (they are self carbonating and in triplicate) is attached to the relevant court file with the method of service endorsed on its rear side.
This includes verbally at the time of being stopped for an offence or sending NIP to your last known address, leaving it with a person who is livng at your last know address or personal service on you or a person at your last known address.
The only way out of certain prosecution where NIP is concerned is if it has been sent out of time, i.e. 14 days after the date on which the offence was committed so in reality 15 days.
This needs a little more clarification... with the NIP will be a form (or section included on the NIP) for the driver of the vehicle at the time to be identified and returned to the Police. This covers the situation where your wife/husband is the registered owner and receives the NIP, but you were in fact the driver at the time. This first NIP must be sent out within the 14 day time limit. If a person other than the registered owner is named on the 'request for driver' form when it is sent back to Police, then a fresh NIP is sent out to the driver and the 14 day timer starts again. However because this is a summary only offence (triable in the Magistrates Court only) there is an overall statutory time limit for prosecution to begin within 6 months of the offence. Some drivers tend to think they can get away with such offences by failing to reply or trying to be obstruct this process. The long period available before prosecution can no longer be commenced, tends to reinforce that view. Believe me when I say that a lot of these cases have not been forgotten about and it's only due to workloads that some summonses are sent out just before the 6 months after the offence date approaches.
To provide an example of the dates being stretched:
Offence date 1/1/03
NIP must be sent to registered owner before 15/1/03
NIP and Driver identity returned to police by 12/2/03
2nd NIP sent to Driver id'd as above by 27/2/03
2nd NIP returned to police by 27/03/03
Summons can be sent out as late as 01/06/03
So I guess that may mean a few more restless nights for a few people...
Edited to add:
I'm reasonably certain (perhaps Madcop could help out here) that if other offences are disclosed as a result of the obstrcutive actions of the registered owner/driver etcin responding to the process, then the commencement of prosecution may be subject to different time limits i.e. if an allegation of attempting to pervert the course of justice arises. This effectively places the matter including the original offence in the domain of the Criminal arena i.e. an indictable offence with no specific time limit on the commencement of proceedings.
>> Edited by **999** on Friday 21st March 09:02
>> Edited by **999** on Friday 21st March 09:02
Thanks for the above comments. I also looked at the safe speed site which was very interesting. What does irk me somewhat is that merely seeing the rear plate of a car is sufficient for a conviction. It wouldn't be good enough in a criminal court so somewhere our rights have been eroded. If european law is upheld I don't suppose all previously convicted drivers will be reinbursed. That would be to good to be true.
Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff