Discussion
Sounds a bit fishy to me. I'll put my hands up and admit I have no experience of developing for games consoles but I do work with a lot of servers.
I can't think of an example in the IT industry where a piece of hardware released 18 months after a rival is technically weaker. IT moves on at fast pace, always has done and probably always will do.
It might take a period of time for developers to have the tools and experince to be able to fully exploit the capabilities of the PS3 but that is true of any new product.
I would expect the PS3 to be top dog until the next console is released which will in turn take the crown.
I can't think of an example in the IT industry where a piece of hardware released 18 months after a rival is technically weaker. IT moves on at fast pace, always has done and probably always will do.
It might take a period of time for developers to have the tools and experince to be able to fully exploit the capabilities of the PS3 but that is true of any new product.
I would expect the PS3 to be top dog until the next console is released which will in turn take the crown.
I don't know if this is right or not, but I am pretty sure the PS3 only has the same technology it was going to have when it was meant to be released a year ago. It may well be 18 months later than the 360 when it finally get's released, but only down to delays (mainly blu ray and graphics chips, IIRC).
If I bought 2 servers at the same time with roughly the same spec, put one into use and left the other in a cupboard, when I came to take it out the cupboard 18 months later, it would still be the same technology as when I put it in there and not 18 months more advanced.
If I bought 2 servers at the same time with roughly the same spec, put one into use and left the other in a cupboard, when I came to take it out the cupboard 18 months later, it would still be the same technology as when I put it in there and not 18 months more advanced.
Edited by :J: on Thursday 23 November 13:01
Fittster said:
Sounds a bit fishy to me. I'll put my hands up and admit I have no experience of developing for games consoles but I do work with a lot of servers.
I can't think of an example in the IT industry where a piece of hardware released 18 months after a rival is technically weaker. IT moves on at fast pace, always has done and probably always will do.
It might take a period of time for developers to have the tools and experince to be able to fully exploit the capabilities of the PS3 but that is true of any new product.
I would expect the PS3 to be top dog until the next console is released which will in turn take the crown.
I can't think of an example in the IT industry where a piece of hardware released 18 months after a rival is technically weaker. IT moves on at fast pace, always has done and probably always will do.
It might take a period of time for developers to have the tools and experince to be able to fully exploit the capabilities of the PS3 but that is true of any new product.
I would expect the PS3 to be top dog until the next console is released which will in turn take the crown.
Does anyone know how much microsoft spent on the development of the 360 though? vs Sony's spend on the ps3 development. Bearing in mind sony's whole pricing structure for the console and game(s) (GT5) I don't think they have as much money floating around as people think.
I haven't read the article but both consoles are from the same generation, and as has already been stated the PS3 has been delayed (due to blu-ray) so the hardware would have been signed off a while ago. It is the general consensus that the PS3 has more raw power, however ATi designed a very eligant and efficent solution in then Xenos (360's GPU) which makes use of Embeded DRAM to provide exceptional performance targeted at 720p resolution.
In actual fact the PS3 GPU is based on the technology that nVidia are now phasing out (G7x series) and have just started to replace ( with the g8x series).
Also Sony seemed to spend a lot of time and resources on Cell, which while maybe not showing it's potential yet will offer enhancements over what the 360 can offer when/ if software is written to take advantage of it.
Another thing is the 360 is moving to 2nd generation software and the PS3 is on 1st generation. As the dev tools get more mature and the devs get more comfortable with the PS3 things will get better.
In actual fact the PS3 GPU is based on the technology that nVidia are now phasing out (G7x series) and have just started to replace ( with the g8x series).
Also Sony seemed to spend a lot of time and resources on Cell, which while maybe not showing it's potential yet will offer enhancements over what the 360 can offer when/ if software is written to take advantage of it.
Another thing is the 360 is moving to 2nd generation software and the PS3 is on 1st generation. As the dev tools get more mature and the devs get more comfortable with the PS3 things will get better.
I have both systems, and in instances where i have seen the same game on both systems (COD3, Tony Hawks) the 360 version not only runs smoother but also with higher definition textures.
A lot of things don't scale well to multiple CPU's too, escpecially stream-only restricted cpu's the ps3 is encumbered with [as opposed to 3x general purpose cpu's the 360 has], things like AI which ordinarily occupy a LOT of cpu time, so the 360 has an easier time with that.
A lot of things don't scale well to multiple CPU's too, escpecially stream-only restricted cpu's the ps3 is encumbered with [as opposed to 3x general purpose cpu's the 360 has], things like AI which ordinarily occupy a LOT of cpu time, so the 360 has an easier time with that.
Edited by scorp on Thursday 23 November 16:08
ing pisstake.
Steve_Evil said:
Yeah this was announced ages ago... 27th March is the date.
'Spring 06' was the date for worldwide launch. Sony havnt confirmed, and wont, the march Euro launch. Nor will you see them give precice launch numbers either.
The PS3 has actualy been downgraded from a performance point of view from what it should have been at launch 12months ago. The RSX graphics chip is now 500mhz instead of 550mhz.
Also all those SPE's on the Cell, 8 , games can rely on only 5 (one being disabled, one being 100% used for the OS, one being requestable by the OS at any time).
Also the OS uses up 64mb of main memory and 32mb of graphics ram, in total a significant portion of the PS3's resources are given to the OS ( over the 360, 3% of two cpu cores , far less ram).
As said,also, the Graphics chip is inferior to the 360's in a number of ways.
The Cell is, if used fully, still more powerfull than the 360's core, but its a shakey balance, with most of the power being vector/floating point specific and all but useless for some code (AI, main game routines etc).
One SPE is disabled to increase yeilds, meaning even the chips which only have seven functional SPE's (out of the eight on each die) can be used in the PS3.
Then ONE SPE is reserved for the OS, which leaves 6 working SPE's and the PPE for games devs to utilise.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure the 2 reserved SPE's for the OS was a missunderstanding/ translation, but i'm not 100%
Then ONE SPE is reserved for the OS, which leaves 6 working SPE's and the PPE for games devs to utilise.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure the 2 reserved SPE's for the OS was a missunderstanding/ translation, but i'm not 100%
Edited by mr_yogi on Monday 4th December 12:57
RobDickinson said:
Steve_Evil said:
Yeah this was announced ages ago... 27th March is the date.
'Spring 06' was the date for worldwide launch. Sony havnt confirmed, and wont, the march Euro launch. Nor will you see them give precice launch numbers either.
No exact date, but states a March 07 launch for Europe at the end of the story. I know it 'was' Spring 06, just as it 'was' November 05, so I guess all we can do is wait. I have seen nothing to make me want to rush out and buy one anyway, so not that concerned
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology
Edited by :J: on Monday 4th December 13:50
hm
Cell has 8 SPE's
One of which is disabled due to yields.
One of which is wholely used and allocated to the OS
Another of which can be requested, at any time, by the OS.
So a game can rely only on 5 and utilise the 6th somewhat.
Remember they have very very limited resource access and instruction codes.
Sony said 400k for US launch and 100k for Japan, and look like they shipped 200k to the US and 80k to Japan. Unless (unlikely) they ramp up bluray production which is horrid at the moment a March launch for Europe will be a token effort at best. What strikes me is how poor the margins in the US are on ebay for em now.
Cell has 8 SPE's
One of which is disabled due to yields.
One of which is wholely used and allocated to the OS
Another of which can be requested, at any time, by the OS.
So a game can rely only on 5 and utilise the 6th somewhat.
Remember they have very very limited resource access and instruction codes.
Sony said 400k for US launch and 100k for Japan, and look like they shipped 200k to the US and 80k to Japan. Unless (unlikely) they ramp up bluray production which is horrid at the moment a March launch for Europe will be a token effort at best. What strikes me is how poor the margins in the US are on ebay for em now.
The ps3's spu's (or spe's) aren't general purpose cpu's like the 3 on the 360. They have limited amounts of ram and only work together well when they are arranged like a production line, e.g. working on small chunks of the same problem, but repeated lots of times. This means it is very fast but in a limited number of applications. I have both consoles and its obvious the ps3 games are behind the 360 at this stage. Also the GPU on the 360 is a lot better than the ps3s, the 360 also has more RAM, and a much better memory architecture (the GPU can access all of it). Gears of war for instance would be impossible on the ps3 due to the ps3s memory limitations.
Edited by scorp on Monday 4th December 20:58
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