944 S2 / Turbo / 968 - Have Searched.
Discussion
I'm considering getting one of these (or a 330Ci).
I need a 2+2 (hence no boxster) and have driven an 1987 3.2 911 and was VERY disappointed.
I'm going to cover 20,000 a year.
Having read the previous posts they all bash the 968 as being too expensive...
Yet in the Auto trader there are currently 3 968's around £7000 with several 944's being more expensive.
I used to own a 944 turbo and didn't like the turbo lag, can I fit a smaller unit or improve the spool of the std one ?
Are the running costs long term in favour of the S2 or relatively comparable ?
I must admit logic points me toward the 330 but I loved my 944 turbo and I drove a 968 and loved that too and think it looks much more modern but if I buy a 130,000 mile car will it get me to 170,000 without horrific bills ?
I need a 2+2 (hence no boxster) and have driven an 1987 3.2 911 and was VERY disappointed.
I'm going to cover 20,000 a year.
Having read the previous posts they all bash the 968 as being too expensive...
Yet in the Auto trader there are currently 3 968's around £7000 with several 944's being more expensive.
I used to own a 944 turbo and didn't like the turbo lag, can I fit a smaller unit or improve the spool of the std one ?
Are the running costs long term in favour of the S2 or relatively comparable ?
I must admit logic points me toward the 330 but I loved my 944 turbo and I drove a 968 and loved that too and think it looks much more modern but if I buy a 130,000 mile car will it get me to 170,000 without horrific bills ?
The 968 always get bashed for being more expensive, but its worth it. If you get a good one that has had the cams done it will last, if not they will definately need doing soon. Budget on 10k for a really good one.
Forget the BMW and if you cant stretch to a good 968 the S2 will do the job fine.
Forget the BMW and if you cant stretch to a good 968 the S2 will do the job fine.
My S2 running costs are in my profile, if you get a good one with belts done etc it will be less than I spent. Need to update my costs, think there has been another service to add on.
Mine did 20,000 miles last year with no major probs, just servicing costs. Its now pootling me to work and back total of 5 miles a day, again with no major probs.
Only things I have going wrong now are age related really, i.e leaky sunroof seal, temperamental door handle etc.
Mine did 20,000 miles last year with no major probs, just servicing costs. Its now pootling me to work and back total of 5 miles a day, again with no major probs.
Only things I have going wrong now are age related really, i.e leaky sunroof seal, temperamental door handle etc.
If you want a 968 I would suggest a Coupe would be best for that sort of mileage because you would have all the home comforts you need. Just be aware of the ones priced so low and check all the usuals (Service history, head gasket, plate lift, cams etc etc).
I guess it is best to try a few of each car you are interested and make your mind up from there. The 968 and S2 are getting on a bit so as you are probably aware it would be worth putting by some money each month for any surprises.
I guess it is best to try a few of each car you are interested and make your mind up from there. The 968 and S2 are getting on a bit so as you are probably aware it would be worth putting by some money each month for any surprises.
968's have been bashed for not being twice as good as the 944 S2 or turbo, when they are twice as expensive.
But that's not a valid principle to apply to car values.
A £22k 996 C2 is certainly not twice as good a drive as my £11k 968. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong choosing to buy a 996 over a 968.
But that's not a valid principle to apply to car values.
A £22k 996 C2 is certainly not twice as good a drive as my £11k 968. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong choosing to buy a 996 over a 968.
But that's my point...
There are now some 968's (all coupes) that are newer than 944's, only have a few more miles and they're cheaper !
I know to check the cam chains etc have been done, I've heard of £1,000 bills for something to do with the diff. anything else that is prone to go at higher mileages.
I had a 180,000 Audi S2 once and it was mint so I'm not too concerned my mileage... unless there's something I should be aware of.
There are now some 968's (all coupes) that are newer than 944's, only have a few more miles and they're cheaper !
I know to check the cam chains etc have been done, I've heard of £1,000 bills for something to do with the diff. anything else that is prone to go at higher mileages.
I had a 180,000 Audi S2 once and it was mint so I'm not too concerned my mileage... unless there's something I should be aware of.
Edited by redgriff500 on Friday 24th November 17:07
redgriff500 said:
But that's my point...
There are now some 968's (all coupes) that are newer than 944's, only have a few more miles and they're cheaper !
There are now some 968's (all coupes) that are newer than 944's, only have a few more miles and they're cheaper !
Edited by redgriff500 on Friday 24th November 17:07
there are also a few people with well sorted 944s whose favourite pasttime is kite-flying. Look in the back of the PCGB Post for a true lesson in overvaluing your car. Both s2 and 968 are potentially excellent buys. The 944 shape is IMHO now starting to look quite dated, or classic depending on your viewpoint. In all honesty I dont think my 968 is muck quicker/more dynamic than my old S2 coupe, but then its a heavier, more wallowy cab, so comparing with a 968coupe may show more obvious benefits. For me, the 968 styling and more modern cabin was enough for the premium.
and lets face it, for the performance on offer, neither is exactly an expensive car.
I would not be bothered by mileage provided all the correct things (as listed previously) have been attended to. As for specific problems, well thats fate isnt it? ok so the diff on a 968 may run to 4 figures - but its not a common fault. Conversely the clutch is about half the price of a 944 to replace. Horses for courses. And dont tell me there's nowt that can go on a 330Ci that wont cost you a grand or so...
an afterthought....
dont forget there is a significant hierarchy amongst 968s.
Tips are less popular and like for like will probably be 1-3k less than a similar manual. Sports are very popular, probably more so then coupes, and command an extra premium. Clubsports are a mixed bag, with really sorted examples commanding very strong residuals, but a lot of more ropey examples failing to sell at all. YOu may find that some average tiptronic coupes are therefore a little less than some amazingly sorted 944 S2 or Turbos. But in general a very well sorted 968 coupe will be 4-5K more than the same S2 with the other 68 variants adding confusion to the mix
dont forget there is a significant hierarchy amongst 968s.
Tips are less popular and like for like will probably be 1-3k less than a similar manual. Sports are very popular, probably more so then coupes, and command an extra premium. Clubsports are a mixed bag, with really sorted examples commanding very strong residuals, but a lot of more ropey examples failing to sell at all. YOu may find that some average tiptronic coupes are therefore a little less than some amazingly sorted 944 S2 or Turbos. But in general a very well sorted 968 coupe will be 4-5K more than the same S2 with the other 68 variants adding confusion to the mix
Could someone point me in the direction of other forums etc
So I can really do some homework.
I'd post a link to the A. Trader ads but they're pop ups.
The ones I've seen have all done 130k all FSH all coupes and I'd only look at manuals. all below £8,000...
I could pay more but the mileages aren't much lower and I'd soon raise it so whats the point.
So I can really do some homework.
I'd post a link to the A. Trader ads but they're pop ups.
The ones I've seen have all done 130k all FSH all coupes and I'd only look at manuals. all below £8,000...
I could pay more but the mileages aren't much lower and I'd soon raise it so whats the point.
This is the uk 968 site - a mine of information if ever there was one.
www.porsche968uk.co.uk/phpbb/index.php
www.porsche968uk.co.uk/phpbb/index.php
for more info try
www.porsche968uk.co.uk/index.htm
or the forum
www.porsche968uk.co.uk/phpbb/index.php
Or theres titanic and rennlist.
or PCGB but I think you have to be a member to access fora.
but to quote the iconic Paul Newman, "why go out for burger when you have steak at home?"
for some examples of 968s, you will often find a selection at
www.911virgin.com
www.specialistcarsltd.co.uk/
www.eporsch.co.uk/0101for_sale.htm#
though as they are not that common cars, usually dealers will have only a small selection of each.
and lest we forget, a whole shedload here: www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=111
www.porsche968uk.co.uk/index.htm
or the forum
www.porsche968uk.co.uk/phpbb/index.php
Or theres titanic and rennlist.
or PCGB but I think you have to be a member to access fora.
but to quote the iconic Paul Newman, "why go out for burger when you have steak at home?"
for some examples of 968s, you will often find a selection at
www.911virgin.com
www.specialistcarsltd.co.uk/
www.eporsch.co.uk/0101for_sale.htm#
though as they are not that common cars, usually dealers will have only a small selection of each.
and lest we forget, a whole shedload here: www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=111
redgriff500 said:
I think the dashes are.
But the seats in the S2's (non leather) seem to mostly have been upholstered in victorian times.
Certainly the outside looks a much newer design.
But the seats in the S2's (non leather) seem to mostly have been upholstered in victorian times.
Certainly the outside looks a much newer design.
Interesting comment, my 944 Lux is my daily driver & the seats are very comfortable & I have a back problem. Getting in & out can be a challenge but that's the same for all of them.
968 Lux feature the airbag steering wheel and dashboard that were first used on US 944 in '87.
Airbags were available as optional equipment on late euro 944 ('91).
The differences are :
- the clock (968 have a horrible analog clock below the radio while 944 have a digital one between the warning switch and the lighter)
- 968 have a digital thermometer where 944 have the digital clock
- 968 have a bright red warning switch while 944 is transparent (the lamp is red)
- 968 rev counter is the same as 944 S (red zone slightly differently represented compared to other 944s)
Airbags were available as optional equipment on late euro 944 ('91).
The differences are :
- the clock (968 have a horrible analog clock below the radio while 944 have a digital one between the warning switch and the lighter)
- 968 have a digital thermometer where 944 have the digital clock
- 968 have a bright red warning switch while 944 is transparent (the lamp is red)
- 968 rev counter is the same as 944 S (red zone slightly differently represented compared to other 944s)
Edited by Thom on Saturday 25th November 13:14
I have an S2 and a Turbo and used to do a similar mileage to you and found that the running costs over several years were virtually identical (my profile holds the details). You'll easily get to 170k if you look after whatever you buy, my own S2 is now on 171k and (touch wood) has had no major problems, just routine servicing and wear and tear items.
The 968 is the much newer model and is also much, much rarer so logically should demand a higher price. It has been less exposed to the elements, and will have less risk of rust, it also has the smoothest engine. As with any car of this age you need to judge each one individually on its merits and condition, those three cars in Autotrader could well be rough old dogs, or equally they could be vastly undervalued by a non enthusiast owner.
As a general rule I would not consider the best examples will be found in places like Autotrader, you really need to look in specialist Porsche mags and the club magazine. Yes they may have higher prices but you are much more likely to find a very well cared for example when it's been owned by an anorackish enthusiast who has lavished care and money on his car. Prices may well overlap, but it's all down to condition. My own Independant has recently seen three 944 Turbos all sell for over £9k, yet there are 968s at lower than this, so don't blinker yourself with whatever prices you see on adverts, go and see the cars.
The 968 is the much newer model and is also much, much rarer so logically should demand a higher price. It has been less exposed to the elements, and will have less risk of rust, it also has the smoothest engine. As with any car of this age you need to judge each one individually on its merits and condition, those three cars in Autotrader could well be rough old dogs, or equally they could be vastly undervalued by a non enthusiast owner.
As a general rule I would not consider the best examples will be found in places like Autotrader, you really need to look in specialist Porsche mags and the club magazine. Yes they may have higher prices but you are much more likely to find a very well cared for example when it's been owned by an anorackish enthusiast who has lavished care and money on his car. Prices may well overlap, but it's all down to condition. My own Independant has recently seen three 944 Turbos all sell for over £9k, yet there are 968s at lower than this, so don't blinker yourself with whatever prices you see on adverts, go and see the cars.
Oh, and the lag on Turbos can be reduced dramatically by the fitment of a £99 Boost Enhancer which delays the weak wastegate opening as boost builds, or even replacing the pitifully poor standard wastegate with a vastly improved aftermarket from Lindsey or TiAL version for circa £400. Whichever car you buy I would budget £1000 - £1500 a year to maintain it for the mileage that you do.
tr7v8 said:
redgriff500 said:
I think the dashes are.
But the seats in the S2's (non leather) seem to mostly have been upholstered in victorian times.
Certainly the outside looks a much newer design.
But the seats in the S2's (non leather) seem to mostly have been upholstered in victorian times.
Certainly the outside looks a much newer design.
Interesting comment, my 944 Lux is my daily driver & the seats are very comfortable & I have a back problem. Getting in & out can be a challenge but that's the same for all of them.
As it is, I happen to think that the seats in the S2 are awful, and give me backache. But that's neither here nor there.
Oli.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff