Discussion
Hi people,
Some advice if you have time or inclination.
I've had this arrangement with myself that before I finally spec the 911 turbo and sell the M3 E46 and Caterham R500, I'd test drive an Ultima.
I'm off to Hinkley tomorrow - just to make SURE that I don't want an Ultima. (Cripes - what a thing to say in this place)
Apart from the massive price difference between the 911 tt(x50) and the Ultima, what other things would I gain from the Ultima? And what would I miss from the porker? All help/advice/perspectives appreciated.
Just to let you know, the car is a second car, for much blatting in the highlands of Scotland, half a dozen track days a year (a lot less that I do at present) and some Sunday pootles to pubs down south. I've had to raise the R500 by .5 inch to drive in Scotland (sump bump)... would I have to raise the Ultima too? Not sure of clearances.
I've seen many Ultimas (and probably many of you) on track over the past few years, and have gained a healthy respect for the car and the drivers. I have, however never yet been on a wet track day where an Ultima drove... I'd be very interested in your opinions of handling and grip (highlands remember). Oh by the way, Even though I drive fast cars, I still have far too many crap moments, so would like the car to be safe, or at least manageable. (R500 is SO backend twitchy in the wet as to be a liability).
Lastly - I'm no mechanic, do you chaps all service yourself, if not, where do you go?
Thanks for any help from an Ultima newbie.
Steve
www.R500.Com
>>> Edited by getcarter on Tuesday 25th March 13:55
Some advice if you have time or inclination.
I've had this arrangement with myself that before I finally spec the 911 turbo and sell the M3 E46 and Caterham R500, I'd test drive an Ultima.
I'm off to Hinkley tomorrow - just to make SURE that I don't want an Ultima. (Cripes - what a thing to say in this place)
Apart from the massive price difference between the 911 tt(x50) and the Ultima, what other things would I gain from the Ultima? And what would I miss from the porker? All help/advice/perspectives appreciated.
Just to let you know, the car is a second car, for much blatting in the highlands of Scotland, half a dozen track days a year (a lot less that I do at present) and some Sunday pootles to pubs down south. I've had to raise the R500 by .5 inch to drive in Scotland (sump bump)... would I have to raise the Ultima too? Not sure of clearances.
I've seen many Ultimas (and probably many of you) on track over the past few years, and have gained a healthy respect for the car and the drivers. I have, however never yet been on a wet track day where an Ultima drove... I'd be very interested in your opinions of handling and grip (highlands remember). Oh by the way, Even though I drive fast cars, I still have far too many crap moments, so would like the car to be safe, or at least manageable. (R500 is SO backend twitchy in the wet as to be a liability).
Lastly - I'm no mechanic, do you chaps all service yourself, if not, where do you go?
Thanks for any help from an Ultima newbie.
Steve
www.R500.Com
>>> Edited by getcarter on Tuesday 25th March 13:55
Steve,
It's impossible to compare the Ultima with a car like the Porker. Other than they both have 4 wheels and an engine, they're as different as you can be. The Ultima is a very raw and visceral car to drive. I think Stig described it best when he said that driving it is like "trying to hold back a bullet". The only way you can find out for yourself is to go and try one out. You'll instantly know whether it's for you or not.
The suspension is fully adjustable, so if you need to raise it a bit for the road, you can. You can then lower it, and adjust the damper settings when you get to a track day for optimum performance.
In the wet. I've raced mine in the wet, and it's fine. You can't drive as fast, but I was going faster than a lot of the cars that were normally faster than me on a dry track. The key is to be aware of what's going on, and realise that you have a lot of power under your right foot, and no electronics to help you out if you do something stupid. (TOP TIP. Don't do something stupid, and you won't have a problem).
Servicing is easy. If you don't want to do it yourself, you can get it done by any competent garage. They're designed to be easy to build and maintain, and there's nothing that you need special tools or computers for. Any of the specialist parts that you may need from Ultima are readily available, and everything I've ever ordered from them has turned up the next day.
The one downside is that you'll have trouble if you and the other half fancy going away for a fortnight, as there isn't exactly what you would call a lot of luggage space (you do get a lot more luggage space if you leave the other half at home however).
Hope this helps.
James
It's impossible to compare the Ultima with a car like the Porker. Other than they both have 4 wheels and an engine, they're as different as you can be. The Ultima is a very raw and visceral car to drive. I think Stig described it best when he said that driving it is like "trying to hold back a bullet". The only way you can find out for yourself is to go and try one out. You'll instantly know whether it's for you or not.
The suspension is fully adjustable, so if you need to raise it a bit for the road, you can. You can then lower it, and adjust the damper settings when you get to a track day for optimum performance.
In the wet. I've raced mine in the wet, and it's fine. You can't drive as fast, but I was going faster than a lot of the cars that were normally faster than me on a dry track. The key is to be aware of what's going on, and realise that you have a lot of power under your right foot, and no electronics to help you out if you do something stupid. (TOP TIP. Don't do something stupid, and you won't have a problem).
Servicing is easy. If you don't want to do it yourself, you can get it done by any competent garage. They're designed to be easy to build and maintain, and there's nothing that you need special tools or computers for. Any of the specialist parts that you may need from Ultima are readily available, and everything I've ever ordered from them has turned up the next day.
The one downside is that you'll have trouble if you and the other half fancy going away for a fortnight, as there isn't exactly what you would call a lot of luggage space (you do get a lot more luggage space if you leave the other half at home however).
Hope this helps.
James
Steve, I'll have a crack at replying to your questions:
>Apart from the massive price difference between the 911 tt(x50) and the Ultima, what other things would I gain from the Ultima? And what would I miss from the porker? All help/advice/perspectives appreciated.
Well, you'd gain a far more 'direct' driving experience, sledghammer power and a million admiring looks. Think R500 handling/weight with Porsche power (and then some) and you're in Ultima territory. I won't pretend that the Ultima is as user friendly and cosseting as a Porker as a day-today car, but it was never meant to be. It's far more visceral however and if a R500 is your 'thing' then The Ult would be a safe bet. PAS is not an option, but creature comforts like air-con certainly are.
>Just to let you know, the car is a second car, for much blatting in the highlands of Scotland, half a dozen track days a year (a lot less that I do at present) and some Sunday pootles to pubs down south. I've had to raise the R500 by .5 inch to drive in Scotland (sump bump)... would I have to raise the Ultima too? Not sure of clearances.
Hmmm... the Ultima is pretty low, I'd guess lower than a Porsche - about 100mm I reckon, the R500 is probably about 75mm?. Still, I've managed to navigate the speed bumps successfully so far (even with splitter) and the car is pretty stiff so you'd be unlikely to bottom it out in a compression.
>I've seen many Ultimas (and probably many of you) on track over the past few years, and have gained a healthy respect for the car and the drivers. I have, however never yet been on a wet track day where an Ultima drove... I'd be very interested in your opinions of handling and grip (highlands remember). Oh by the way, Even though I drive fast cars, I still have far too many crap moments, so would like the car to be safe, or at least manageable. (R500 is SO backend twitchy in the wet as to be a liability).
Well, big power (more specifically torque) and light weight will always command respect when the grip starts to disappear, but if you want to drive like a loon in the wet - buy a Scooby or an Evo!
Personally speaking, racing in the wet has given me some of the best track experiences I've ever had (although not in an Ultima I'll grant you - but in a Seven which is a lot wetter!!). Whilst wet weather driving won't allow you to take corners in the usual go-kart-glued-to-rails manner that the Ultima allows in the dry, it will still give prodigious grip. Remember, tail end flappiness has more to do with poor throttle control than lack of grip from the (enormous) tyres.
>Lastly - I'm no mechanic, do you chaps all service yourself, if not, where do you go?
Mechanically, the car's are very straightforward and seeing as they're mostly self-built, we know every nut bolt and washer on them. We may not know how they all work or what they're there for, but at least we know where they are Seriously though, the servicing requirements are far more straightforward than the Porsche and should be a lot cheaper. I'm sure the factory would be happy to undertake any servicing for you.
>Thanks for any help from an Ultima newbie.
No worries.
>> Edited by Stig (moderator) on Tuesday 25th March 14:12
>Apart from the massive price difference between the 911 tt(x50) and the Ultima, what other things would I gain from the Ultima? And what would I miss from the porker? All help/advice/perspectives appreciated.
Well, you'd gain a far more 'direct' driving experience, sledghammer power and a million admiring looks. Think R500 handling/weight with Porsche power (and then some) and you're in Ultima territory. I won't pretend that the Ultima is as user friendly and cosseting as a Porker as a day-today car, but it was never meant to be. It's far more visceral however and if a R500 is your 'thing' then The Ult would be a safe bet. PAS is not an option, but creature comforts like air-con certainly are.
>Just to let you know, the car is a second car, for much blatting in the highlands of Scotland, half a dozen track days a year (a lot less that I do at present) and some Sunday pootles to pubs down south. I've had to raise the R500 by .5 inch to drive in Scotland (sump bump)... would I have to raise the Ultima too? Not sure of clearances.
Hmmm... the Ultima is pretty low, I'd guess lower than a Porsche - about 100mm I reckon, the R500 is probably about 75mm?. Still, I've managed to navigate the speed bumps successfully so far (even with splitter) and the car is pretty stiff so you'd be unlikely to bottom it out in a compression.
>I've seen many Ultimas (and probably many of you) on track over the past few years, and have gained a healthy respect for the car and the drivers. I have, however never yet been on a wet track day where an Ultima drove... I'd be very interested in your opinions of handling and grip (highlands remember). Oh by the way, Even though I drive fast cars, I still have far too many crap moments, so would like the car to be safe, or at least manageable. (R500 is SO backend twitchy in the wet as to be a liability).
Well, big power (more specifically torque) and light weight will always command respect when the grip starts to disappear, but if you want to drive like a loon in the wet - buy a Scooby or an Evo!
Personally speaking, racing in the wet has given me some of the best track experiences I've ever had (although not in an Ultima I'll grant you - but in a Seven which is a lot wetter!!). Whilst wet weather driving won't allow you to take corners in the usual go-kart-glued-to-rails manner that the Ultima allows in the dry, it will still give prodigious grip. Remember, tail end flappiness has more to do with poor throttle control than lack of grip from the (enormous) tyres. >Lastly - I'm no mechanic, do you chaps all service yourself, if not, where do you go?
Mechanically, the car's are very straightforward and seeing as they're mostly self-built, we know every nut bolt and washer on them. We may not know how they all work or what they're there for, but at least we know where they are
Seriously though, the servicing requirements are far more straightforward than the Porsche and should be a lot cheaper. I'm sure the factory would be happy to undertake any servicing for you. >Thanks for any help from an Ultima newbie.
No worries.
>> Edited by Stig (moderator) on Tuesday 25th March 14:12
getcarter said: Thanks James, stig,
A couple of questions...
Do you know what the db noise is @ .5 metre @ 3/4 revs?
If it's loud, are there silencer / supertrap options?
Thanks again.
>> Edited by getcarter on Tuesday 25th March 14:10
It all depends on the engine/exhaust/age of exhaust combination. It also varies with so many environmental factors and the way that it is measured, that it's impossible to accurately estimate what it could be.
One handy hint is (assuming you have a rev counter that allows you to configure the number of cylinders you have) set it to 6 cylinders, and you'll only have to run at 3/4 of 3/4 revs
James
Get Carter - Speed humps and poor roads can be a bit of a problem. l once fell down a hole in Turin in my Ultima which hadn't been mended since the Italian Job was filmed (nice link there l thought) and the car bottomed out, breaking the engine cover catch on top of the car. Can't think how.
I've had the odd bottom-scrapping moment on bad roads in Cornwall too but nothing that cant be lived with and the smile factor of these cars makes up for it all.
I've had the odd bottom-scrapping moment on bad roads in Cornwall too but nothing that cant be lived with and the smile factor of these cars makes up for it all.
Exhausts, wonderful things, especially when they are straight through and motivated by a single plane crank V8. Problem? approx 112db.
On a serious note!! the factory exhausts are very good as an allround system i.e. still sound good, flow bench tests show that they flow well for the job they have to do and they still satisfy the jobsworth( sorry noise scrut)at most meetings, expect readings around 100db allowing for ambient. Still fit the straight throughs when i see the words unrestricted!
On a serious note!! the factory exhausts are very good as an allround system i.e. still sound good, flow bench tests show that they flow well for the job they have to do and they still satisfy the jobsworth( sorry noise scrut)at most meetings, expect readings around 100db allowing for ambient. Still fit the straight throughs when i see the words unrestricted!
I live in the middle of Knowhere and I find the Ultima as aceptable to drive as our Boxter S.
There is obviously no comparison in performance but I would say the Ultima is no harder to drive fast than the Porsche, only problem is when you do so you are going considerably faster so have to be more grown up.
I did find driving the Ultima in the wet a little unsettling but it turned out to be the suspension settings and tyre choice, it now feels at home in the wet as long as your sensibly.
On a driving experience front, and Ultima has a complient ride, with no body roll and gives the kind of feedback that the Porsche dreams of.
Sould I pump the fact that I'm selling mine as well....nah!!!!
There is obviously no comparison in performance but I would say the Ultima is no harder to drive fast than the Porsche, only problem is when you do so you are going considerably faster so have to be more grown up.
I did find driving the Ultima in the wet a little unsettling but it turned out to be the suspension settings and tyre choice, it now feels at home in the wet as long as your sensibly.
On a driving experience front, and Ultima has a complient ride, with no body roll and gives the kind of feedback that the Porsche dreams of.
Sould I pump the fact that I'm selling mine as well....nah!!!!
This thread does raise an interesting question about Ultima ownership though: many of those who have responded either are or have sold theirs.
Is it the kind of car you only own for a year and then move on, or is it the "well there's nothing more to build/fix so I need another challenge" syndrome?
Is it the kind of car you only own for a year and then move on, or is it the "well there's nothing more to build/fix so I need another challenge" syndrome?
Or is it a question of building another one, but next time 'properly' ?
For example, I know that next time I do a loft conversion I'll do it so the floorboards won't squeak 
I'm sure my Ultima will take ages to build and there will be a few things hindsight will have told me to do better. (Chocolate engine cover, garden hose pipework etc.)
For example, I know that next time I do a loft conversion I'll do it so the floorboards won't squeak I'm sure my Ultima will take ages to build and there will be a few things hindsight will have told me to do better. (Chocolate engine cover, garden hose pipework etc.)
domster said: Or is it a question of building another one, but next time 'properly' ?
I'm sure my Ultima will take ages to build and there will be a few things hindsight will have told me to do better. (Chocolate engine cover, garden hose pipework etc.)
Don't worry Domster as long as you don't take a Fench ( or a Gate
) I can garentee we shal be removing the Urine from you when the cars finished.
It's just are way of Male bonding.
Unfortunate result of getting carried away with the spec list...... I've ended up with a car thats pretty much as fast as it gets........but..................I still haven't finished the extension, and I was supposed to have enough money to finish both.
Its strange that I got the Ultima finished first though considering I started the extension before the Ultima
Its strange that I got the Ultima finished first though considering I started the extension before the Ultima
Well that was very entertaining. Went out with Ted in the Can-Am.
Now I’m in trouble – this is a serious proposition – it felt SO much more stable than the Seven on bumpy country lanes, and in comparison, like a sofa – I was genuinely shocked at how comfortable the ride was (and how easy it was to get into!).
Handling, acceleration, just as stunning as I thought.
Considering it was a 'straight through' I would have liked to hear more of a 'TVR' note from the exhaust.
Overall – seriously impressed. (Like I wasn’t going to be!)
I now have to do some serious thinking…
If I go for this… which engine? Any thoughts people? I also presume the 6 speed close ratio box is what I need? (to remind you - 10 track days a year, some serious highland blatting and the occasional Sunday pub run).
Also, I was talking to Ted about dry sumps, and it seems like many of you don’t have them (even those that track)… My Caterham engine would pop in 3 laps without a dry sump… Seems like the ‘Apollo’ system (sorry – don’t know right name for this car) of squirting oil in (whilst braking most needed apparently) is considered enough. Any thoughts there?
Thanks for your help – You’ll be the fourth to know if I put in an order (behind Ted, my missus and my accountant ( The first will be easy, the second understanding, the third might prove tricky).
PS Dom… didn’t know you were building one of these… Is it an addition to or an instead of?
Steve
>> Edited by getcarter on Wednesday 26th March 13:56
Now I’m in trouble – this is a serious proposition – it felt SO much more stable than the Seven on bumpy country lanes, and in comparison, like a sofa – I was genuinely shocked at how comfortable the ride was (and how easy it was to get into!).
Handling, acceleration, just as stunning as I thought.
Considering it was a 'straight through' I would have liked to hear more of a 'TVR' note from the exhaust.
Overall – seriously impressed. (Like I wasn’t going to be!)
I now have to do some serious thinking…
If I go for this… which engine? Any thoughts people? I also presume the 6 speed close ratio box is what I need? (to remind you - 10 track days a year, some serious highland blatting and the occasional Sunday pub run).
Also, I was talking to Ted about dry sumps, and it seems like many of you don’t have them (even those that track)… My Caterham engine would pop in 3 laps without a dry sump… Seems like the ‘Apollo’ system (sorry – don’t know right name for this car) of squirting oil in (whilst braking most needed apparently) is considered enough. Any thoughts there?
Thanks for your help – You’ll be the fourth to know if I put in an order (behind Ted, my missus and my accountant ( The first will be easy, the second understanding, the third might prove tricky).
PS Dom… didn’t know you were building one of these… Is it an addition to or an instead of?
Steve
>> Edited by getcarter on Wednesday 26th March 13:56
Hi Steve,
I am building an Ultima as my 'be all and end all' sports car. It will be in addition to a BMW 3 series runabout - the 911RS went to fund a house purchase.
We should definitely have that beer/lunch soon that we've been talking about - maybe this w/e if you are down South and free?
Personally, I would advise against talking spec too much on the forum as it can be a can of worms. (And can take a load of time!). Best to chat to a few owners in length by email or by phone or in person, talk to the factory, and soak up the Ultima 'vibe' for a month or two. Also search the forum, as gearbox arguments are a chestnut and can go on forever. I doubt you'll get a straight answer if you ask a straight question as there are so many possibilities and opinions. Best advice is to get the spec that suits you, your budget and your requirements.
IMHO, this forum is best for specific tech questions, general enquiries but not spec, and for generally taking the piss out of Stig/Clive/Guy etc. At least that's what they use it for
ATB
Dom
I am building an Ultima as my 'be all and end all' sports car. It will be in addition to a BMW 3 series runabout - the 911RS went to fund a house purchase.
We should definitely have that beer/lunch soon that we've been talking about - maybe this w/e if you are down South and free?
Personally, I would advise against talking spec too much on the forum as it can be a can of worms. (And can take a load of time!). Best to chat to a few owners in length by email or by phone or in person, talk to the factory, and soak up the Ultima 'vibe' for a month or two. Also search the forum, as gearbox arguments are a chestnut and can go on forever. I doubt you'll get a straight answer if you ask a straight question as there are so many possibilities and opinions. Best advice is to get the spec that suits you, your budget and your requirements.
IMHO, this forum is best for specific tech questions, general enquiries but not spec, and for generally taking the piss out of Stig/Clive/Guy etc.
At least that's what they use it for ATB
Dom
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