Older Griffs...............

[simonb9]

I've seen a few 4.3 Griffs for sale and the good condition examples seem to sell quite quickly. Is this because they are quite sort after or maybe because they are cheaper its an entry level Griff for people ?? How about the 4 litre Griff ? I take it these were the very first ones built ? How many were made before the introduction of the 4.3 ? Do they differ in anyway to the later models (apart from engine size) ? I assume the have the Rover LT77 gearbox instead of the T5 ? Did the interior chnage at all between the 4.0, 4.3 and early 5.0 litre models ?

Any advice/info appreciated.

Regards,

Simon

[Wildfire]

The 4.3s sell fast because they combine a few different factors:

Usually the power is almost as good as a 500

They are rarer

The are Pre Cat and have that Pre Cat Sound.

The 400s are definitely worth it. Not too sure how many were made, but I am very happy with mine. I've never had problems with keeping up with the 500 boys. (Except now as the cars has immobilised itself in the garage).

The Pre Cats do differ. Off the top of my head this is what I can think of:


Exterior

Different Wheels, Often Goti 5 spokes or the OZ lattice wheels

Different Front. Instead of the Large Opening at the front, the Pre Cat had a flattened section for the number plate and a small grille. I believe the height is also slightly different, as the air filters are not the same and the 500 one does not fit.

Different Driving Light fixtures.


Mechanicals

LT 77 Gear Box

All have a Pre Serpentine Engines

No rear ARB as standard

Stiffer Koni Shockers as standard.

No flexi pipe on the exhaust system

Different manifolds as there are no cats.

No power steering.

Interior

The heater controls are electronic and use window switches mounted horizontally.

The gaugues are in a different arrangement, depending on car.

No cold air blower.

There are varying numbers of air vents in the foot well. I only have one per footwell, but i think some have 2.

I think the seats are slightly different, although I may be worng as my seats are very different to my mate's 97 Chim seats.

Not sure on this one, but on my car the heater and window controls are mounted on a black plastic plate are the other wood????

These are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, but I'm not too good on the 500s. I'm srue someone who has owned both will be along soon to correct me.

Chris

Edited by Wildfire on Tuesday 5th December 23:12

[simonb9]

Chris,

Thanks for the comprehensive answer, a few more differences than I thought !! Know how much BHP the 4.0 are supposed to chuck out ??

[RichardD]

simonb9 said:

... Know how much BHP the 4.0 are supposed to chuck out ??

For info on a rolling road session in July my 5.0 (pre serp, no mods) gave 283bhp at 5000 rpm (fat curve though, 280bhp at 4500!), a friends 4.0 precat (flowed head from factory) gave 237bhp. His delivery was more linear than mine. Even though its 14 years old my friends car had only done 15,000 miles!

Although 500 has cats it is still pre-serp, has the rover gearbox and no power steering. The window buttons are in a more logical place on the 500's than the pre cats (relavence factor 0.0001 )

The general feeling is that the 4.3 precats are probably the most classic example of the Griffith.

[Ricardo Bertone]

In my opinion the 4.3 Griffiths are the best -

the engines are the sweetest and give best mix of power/economy - mid 20s mpg - smooth at low revs - no shunting

the nose looks much better IMO than the later open-mouth nose

Koni sports adjustable suspension much better than the later Bilstein set-up

Chassis tend to last better and are less prone to rust - probably because they didn't lie around outside waiting to be put in the production line

The sound of a precat cannot be bettered IMO

I believe that classic sportscar history will show that the 4.3s are the best Griffiths

Just my opinion

Ricardo

[gnasher]

I spent several months & drove thousands of miles looking at pre cat Griffs this summer.

There are some nice 4.0 cars about, but mileage isn't neccessarily a guide to condition.I travelled miles to see cars which hadn't even been washed before being advertised, not the sign of a cherished car! People seem to think that just because they've got a TVR it's worth £10K, look at how long some cars have been for sale. Most have seen very little TLC, and the cost of tidying them up will be more than the saving made over buying a good 'un.

With regards to 4.0 vs 4.3, a good 4.0 is good, but a good 4.3 is great!I only drove 2 4.3s, both good, and I bought the 2nd one, for the same money I could have had an early 500, but I wanted a pre cat, I just think they're the original & best.

And I managed one last autumn drive on Sunday, Marvellous!!

[mrmaggit]

[redacted]

[Wildfire]

On the 4.0 the quoted "TVR Figure" is 240bhp. This is generally a lie. You can expect around 210-220 out of a good 4.0. My car kicks out quite a bit more than that with a very nice flat torque curve. I can pull from 1000rpm upwards with no shunting in 5th. Not very fast mind you, but smoothly. Mind you mine is not quite standard.

Like the 450 Chims the 4.3 Griff's are considered the best as they are the middle model between the 4.0 and the 500s. They have the power and the sound.

[gnasher]

Wildfire, you've got a silver 400!!
My 4.3 was the only other pre cat I've seen in silver, most seem to be red, blue or green.
Yoo've obviously got taste Chris!

Steve

[Griffter]

simonb9 said:

I've seen a few 4.3 Griffs for sale and the good condition examples seem to sell quite quickly. Is this because they are quite sort after or maybe because they are cheaper its an entry level Griff for people ?? How about the 4 litre Griff ? I take it these were the very first ones built ? How many were made before the introduction of the 4.3 ? Do they differ in anyway to the later models (apart from engine size) ? I assume the have the Rover LT77 gearbox instead of the T5 ? Did the interior chnage at all between the 4.0, 4.3 and early 5.0 litre models ?

Any advice/info appreciated.

Regards,

Simon

For the reasons stated 4.3s are desirable - but 500s are more powerful and torquier, 4.0s are less of a handful and can easily be tuned to 4.3 power. Having said that I bought a 4.3 because it seemed to be the ultimate evolution of the precat (nothwithstanding the elusive Big Valve), and I didn't like the drive of the 500. They're all very powerful, very light, very fast and the differences are largely insignificant when you factor in personal preference and condition. 4.0s and 4.3s tend to be cheaper than 500s but I don't think this will last. The Griffith is well into classic status now and once the boy racers have diposed of the ropey cheap cars, the remaining cars will be valued on condition and history rather than original selling price (very last SE/LE cars excepted perhaps).
4.0 and 4.3 were produced side by side - the 4.3 was always an option. Roughly equal numbers of each were allegedly produced, something like 650 precats in total. It does seem from the numbers for sale that there are less 4.3s around though. 4.0 and 4.3 are identical except for the engine capacity and (I believe) the timing chain.
500s have differences which have already been listed here: principally gearbox (on post 94 ish cars), auxiliary drive belt (called 'serpentine') again on later cars, ignition amplifier location, front end styling, radiator mount, air filter design, tyre size, power steering optional, air con optional, fuel tank sender location, rear arb, brake size (disc and caliper I believe), roof rubber seal, seat belt anchor location and have provision for a bolt-in roll bar. Later cars had a (slightly) different steering wheel design. Detail changes to the interior vent/heat/window controls occured a stated.
FULL leather was an option on all models, as (I think) were wool carpets.

Some of the changes came about because of the greater power of the 500, some beacuse parts became obsolete and alternatives had to be found. The spec of the 4.0 & 4.3 is fine, and I don't believe the changes to the 500 overcame any shortcomings of the precats - just improved things in line with the power/torque increase (eg gearbox/brakes).

Bascially, a decent, sorted example of any Griffith will set your pants on fire, so buy carefully and don;t get too hung up on the exact model/spec.