People pulling out of side roads.....
Discussion
What in the hell is it with people pulling out of side roads?I can't believe this,i've been so close to skelping three cars in 5 days!They have just pulled out in front of me?Today was the closest i've been to a classic T-bone from a car coming out of a side road(old guy)He came out and i just slammed on everything,bike was all over the shop as the roads were very greasy,plus i'd just spent the last mile working of some mud from a tractor crossing.I'll say one thing for the old guy,he did stop(the other two just drove on with me following them hurling abuse),right on my side of the road,at least,eventually,he saw me!Without exageration i was about six inches from his front wing when i stopped.My headlight was on,he looked at me a couple of times before pulling out?It's really starting to have an effect on me this happening so often in the last couple of days,as if someone's trying to tell me something!The other two incidents were both up the road from me at the same junction,about 200 yards from my house,They weren't as close,maybe a couple of feet or so,this is starting to give me a complex!
What sort of time of day has it been, or is it just random times? You know this already, but the sun's lower all the time just now plus the weather is crap so it's dead easy for a bike to get lost in amongst a sea of car drivers using headlights during the day for absolutely no good reason (why does that happend so much nowadays 
)
Either that or you've a price on your head
) Either that or you've a price on your head
hiccy said:
car drivers using headlights during the day for absolutely no good reason (why does that happend so much nowadays )
) Probably because insurance claim forms ask for any lights displayed at time of collision. Doubtless if you say 'none' it all becomes your fault, so the numpties use their lights to avoid blame.
The three times this has happened were all in broad daylight,two of them as i said up the road from me in a quite Suburban street and the other on a B road which is usually busy,but i was the only one on it!,well,except for a guy that seen what happened coming from the opposite direction,he just shook his head towards me seeing what the old guy had done.My headlight was on too every time this happened?.Well i'll be going out today on the bike so it's been nice knowing you all!
It’s also about your positioning on the road. Make sure you are riding towards the off side of your lane not in the gutter as most learners are taught.. This puts you into the position where drivers tend to look. (If they actually look!) I like to position myself on the same part of the road that I would be ‘hovering over’ were I in the drivers seat of a car.
If you see someone waiting to pull out of a side road ahead of you, try moving slightly across your lane (assuming it is clear to do so). The human eye is very good at picking up movement and a little move across your lane will be seen as a relative horizontal movement from the position of the driver waiting to emerge from the side road. Also, if the movement ends a little more to the offside of your lane then you will have given yourself a little bit more room to ‘get past’ any vehicle that pulls half way out of the junction and then stops in a panic when they finally see you.
If you see someone waiting to pull out of a side road ahead of you, try moving slightly across your lane (assuming it is clear to do so). The human eye is very good at picking up movement and a little move across your lane will be seen as a relative horizontal movement from the position of the driver waiting to emerge from the side road. Also, if the movement ends a little more to the offside of your lane then you will have given yourself a little bit more room to ‘get past’ any vehicle that pulls half way out of the junction and then stops in a panic when they finally see you.
black-k1 said:
It’s also about your positioning on the road. Make sure you are riding towards the off side of your lane not in the gutter as most learners are taught.. This puts you into the position where drivers tend to look. (If they actually look!) I like to position myself on the same part of the road that I would be ‘hovering over’ were I in the drivers seat of a car.
If you see someone waiting to pull out of a side road ahead of you, try moving slightly across your lane (assuming it is clear to do so). The human eye is very good at picking up movement and a little move across your lane will be seen as a relative horizontal movement from the position of the driver waiting to emerge from the side road. Also, if the movement ends a little more to the offside of your lane then you will have given yourself a little bit more room to ‘get past’ any vehicle that pulls half way out of the junction and then stops in a panic when they finally see you.
If you see someone waiting to pull out of a side road ahead of you, try moving slightly across your lane (assuming it is clear to do so). The human eye is very good at picking up movement and a little move across your lane will be seen as a relative horizontal movement from the position of the driver waiting to emerge from the side road. Also, if the movement ends a little more to the offside of your lane then you will have given yourself a little bit more room to ‘get past’ any vehicle that pulls half way out of the junction and then stops in a panic when they finally see you.
Good points!!! When I was doing my DAS the biggest issue for some riders was staying in the command position in the middle of the lane.
black-k1 said:
It’s also about your positioning on the road. Make sure you are riding towards the off side of your lane not in the gutter as most learners are taught.. This puts you into the position where drivers tend to look. (If they actually look!) I like to position myself on the same part of the road that I would be ‘hovering over’ were I in the drivers seat of a car.
If you see someone waiting to pull out of a side road ahead of you, try moving slightly across your lane (assuming it is clear to do so). The human eye is very good at picking up movement and a little move across your lane will be seen as a relative horizontal movement from the position of the driver waiting to emerge from the side road. Also, if the movement ends a little more to the offside of your lane then you will have given yourself a little bit more room to ‘get past’ any vehicle that pulls half way out of the junction and then stops in a panic when they finally see you.
If you see someone waiting to pull out of a side road ahead of you, try moving slightly across your lane (assuming it is clear to do so). The human eye is very good at picking up movement and a little move across your lane will be seen as a relative horizontal movement from the position of the driver waiting to emerge from the side road. Also, if the movement ends a little more to the offside of your lane then you will have given yourself a little bit more room to ‘get past’ any vehicle that pulls half way out of the junction and then stops in a panic when they finally see you.
The eye works using the angle an object occupies within the field of vision to judge distances. The problem with a bike is that from distance to reasonably close up, this angle is very similar, so as time passes for another road user observing a bike, the bike does not seem to be getting that much closer. Then, when a bike is really quite close up, the rate the angle changes at increases quickly and the observer finally picks up on the bike approaching. Depending on the relative speeds of the bike and other vehicle and the scenario, it can be too late at this point to avert a collision. If you consider the increasing thickness of A pillars on modern cars, plus the tendancy to tuck the sat nav up next to the A pillar of some drivers, further blocking the view, it's all to easy for a bike to hide in a blind spot until it's too late.
Steve.
Just a quick question (have been lurking here for a while, but not got a bike licence yet), but when you are out and about, do you wear reflective bits? Yes, they do look naff, but they do help making you more visible to others. Or is it just a case of the car drivers being unobservant?
Steve_T said:
The eye works using the angle an object occupies within the field of vision to judge distances. The problem with a bike is that from distance to reasonably close up, this angle is very similar, so as time passes for another road user observing a bike, the bike does not seem to be getting that much closer. Then, when a bike is really quite close up, the rate the angle changes at increases quickly and the observer finally picks up on the bike approaching. Depending on the relative speeds of the bike and other vehicle and the scenario, it can be too late at this point to avert a collision. If you consider the increasing thickness of A pillars on modern cars, plus the tendancy to tuck the sat nav up next to the A pillar of some drivers, further blocking the view, it's all to easy for a bike to hide in a blind spot until it's too late.
Steve.
Steve.
I agree with all that you have said Steve but I’m not sure that what you have described is the main problem. My experience of people pulling out on me is not that they have seen the bike but misjudged its’ distance/approach speed, but they simply haven’t seen the bike. I find that it is often the case that their eyes must have seen the bike but that the brain has simply not registered it. How often have you had someone look straight at you (perhaps better described as through you) to then pull out directly in front of you? The driver then claims that they didn’t see you. I know it has happened to me on a number of occasions.
What the bike rider has to do is get the drivers attention and this is where the movement across the field of view helps. The eye is attracted to movement which may be enough for the drivers brain to think ‘what was that’? Once that happens, you have a fighting chance of getting past without the driver emerging from the side road directly in front of you.
Alternatively, the rumpelstiltskin – fairy light approach may be even more effective!!
Phone_Monkey said:
Just a quick question (have been lurking here for a while, but not got a bike licence yet), but when you are out and about, do you wear reflective bits? Yes, they do look naff, but they do help making you more visible to others. Or is it just a case of the car drivers being unobservant?
Differing opinions on this I would expect, but I notice a lot of riders in the City wear something reflective. My attitude to it is it may increase the chance I'm noticed, so I'll wear it. How much it actually works I couldn't say, perhaps it makes no difference at all. I did once chat to a bike paramedic, who rode an enormous Honda Pan with reflective stickering everywhere. He said even on that you could still be invisible, so faith in the observational skills of the general public is definitely mis-placed.
Steve.
Edited by Steve_T on Thursday 7th December 12:48
Phone_Monkey said:
Just a quick question (have been lurking here for a while, but not got a bike licence yet), but when you are out and about, do you wear reflective bits? Yes, they do look naff, but they do help making you more visible to others. Or is it just a case of the car drivers being unobservant?
I keep saying to myself I MUST get some of those flu....flores.. yellow highlighter coloured jackets.....I've seen bikers a mile off whilst wearing them......It's a great idea IMO.
chilli said:
Phone_Monkey said:
Just a quick question (have been lurking here for a while, but not got a bike licence yet), but when you are out and about, do you wear reflective bits? Yes, they do look naff, but they do help making you more visible to others. Or is it just a case of the car drivers being unobservant?
I keep saying to myself I MUST get some of those flu....flores.. yellow highlighter coloured jackets.....I've seen bikers a mile off whilst wearing them......It's a great idea IMO.
I used to wear a bright fluorescent jacket but then ditched it when it eventually wore out. I didn’t replace it. Purely for my own experience (not at all scientific!) I did not notice an increase in the number of people ‘not seeing’ me. Had people pulling out in front of me when I wore the jacket, and people pulling out in front of me when I didn’t!
It may help to wear bright fluorescent clothing when riding a bike, but it should never be used as a substitute for good positioning, good observation and good defensive riding.
black-k1 said:
Steve_T said:
The eye works using the angle an object occupies within the field of vision to judge distances. The problem with a bike is that from distance to reasonably close up, this angle is very similar, so as time passes for another road user observing a bike, the bike does not seem to be getting that much closer. Then, when a bike is really quite close up, the rate the angle changes at increases quickly and the observer finally picks up on the bike approaching. Depending on the relative speeds of the bike and other vehicle and the scenario, it can be too late at this point to avert a collision. If you consider the increasing thickness of A pillars on modern cars, plus the tendancy to tuck the sat nav up next to the A pillar of some drivers, further blocking the view, it's all to easy for a bike to hide in a blind spot until it's too late.
Steve.
Steve.
I agree with all that you have said Steve but I’m not sure that what you have described is the main problem. My experience of people pulling out on me is not that they have seen the bike but misjudged its’ distance/approach speed, but they simply haven’t seen the bike. I find that it is often the case that their eyes must have seen the bike but that the brain has simply not registered it. How often have you had someone look straight at you (perhaps better described as through you) to then pull out directly in front of you? The driver then claims that they didn’t see you. I know it has happened to me on a number of occasions.
What the bike rider has to do is get the drivers attention and this is where the movement across the field of view helps. The eye is attracted to movement which may be enough for the drivers brain to think ‘what was that’? Once that happens, you have a fighting chance of getting past without the driver emerging from the side road directly in front of you.
Totally agree about moving across the field of view. I think the SMIDSY thing is caused in the same way that some folks cannot pick up on approach speed. If you're not seen to be moving (insufficient change in angle you occupy in the field of view), the brain somehow assumes you to be part of the background and therefore you're filtered out the parts of the scene that are of interest to the driver until you're much closer.
black-k1 said:
It may help to wear bright fluorescent clothing when riding a bike, but it should never be used as a substitute for good positioning, good observation and good defensive riding.
Absolutely. ASSUME everyone is out to get you and ride accordingly. Then when they do something stupid, although you'll still be miffed, at least you may avoid them.
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