Police get more powers.
Discussion
Just heard that the police are to get new powers to take DNA and fingerprints from ANYONE they arrest.
Previously it was only allowed after they were charged.
Another serious threat to civil liberties. First the rescinding of the right to silence, and now this.
Whats next? A transponder chip stuck up your arse?
I really have had quite enuff of this continual erosion of rights.
I am not a human being...14435690/17-D i am a number.
I want out of this festering scab on the arse of europe, preferably to someplace more libertarian like North Korea or Serbia perhaps?
Assuming they dont prevent "emmigrants" from leaving by shutting the borders and taking away passports first........
Previously it was only allowed after they were charged.
Another serious threat to civil liberties. First the rescinding of the right to silence, and now this.
Whats next? A transponder chip stuck up your arse?
I really have had quite enuff of this continual erosion of rights.
I am not a human being...14435690/17-D i am a number.
I want out of this festering scab on the arse of europe, preferably to someplace more libertarian like North Korea or Serbia perhaps?
Assuming they dont prevent "emmigrants" from leaving by shutting the borders and taking away passports first........
Why would i object if i havent anything to hide? Ill tell you why. Its a presumption of guilt over innocence.
Im innocent(apparently) they arrest me for whatever, let me go cos they got it wrong and bang! My details are stuck forever in their machinery.
NO! Its not on.Its just another way of compulsory identification and monitoring.
Thats why.
Im innocent(apparently) they arrest me for whatever, let me go cos they got it wrong and bang! My details are stuck forever in their machinery.
NO! Its not on.Its just another way of compulsory identification and monitoring.
Thats why.
"Why would you object if you haven't got anything to hide. "
Why would you object if your house was searched at random if you haven't got anything to hide ?
Why would you object to being filmed in your house if you haven't got anything to hide ?
Why would you object to being GPS tagged and tracked at all times if you haven't got anything to hide ?
Come on mate. Civil liberties are important. Why should I have my DNA fingerprints taken if I haven't done anything wrong.
If you don't object to this sort of behaviour I suggest you move to China or North Korea.
Don't go and work for THE Saudi oil company then. They fingerprint every employee!
Nobody told me this until it was too late......
Back to the original post.
I can see the benefit of getting fingerprint/DNA for record, e.g. very helpful in catching criminals (compare to national record, go and arrest them, much reduced resource required). Would be a very good deterent for physical violence/sex crimes too.
I also never even thought about errosion of civil liberties, until someone else mentioned it. I have nothing to hide, so it doesn't bother me, just as ID cards don't (you already have a passport anyway).
Just my opinion
Sparks
Nobody told me this until it was too late......
Back to the original post.
I can see the benefit of getting fingerprint/DNA for record, e.g. very helpful in catching criminals (compare to national record, go and arrest them, much reduced resource required). Would be a very good deterent for physical violence/sex crimes too.
I also never even thought about errosion of civil liberties, until someone else mentioned it. I have nothing to hide, so it doesn't bother me, just as ID cards don't (you already have a passport anyway).
Just my opinion
Sparks
"so delt, would you prefer a rapist to go for months continuing to rape and beat women"
Blimey - interesting tactics for an argument - do you work for the safety camera partnership or something ?
Are you suggesting everyone be treated like a criminal in case they are one ?
How about we lock everyone up in their own little room that way they'll be no crime at all.
We are all entitled to our personal freedom. Some people have to spend their whole lives fighting for it.
>> Edited by mdh on Thursday 27th March 12:35
Blimey - interesting tactics for an argument - do you work for the safety camera partnership or something ?
Are you suggesting everyone be treated like a criminal in case they are one ?
How about we lock everyone up in their own little room that way they'll be no crime at all.
We are all entitled to our personal freedom. Some people have to spend their whole lives fighting for it.
>> Edited by mdh on Thursday 27th March 12:35
DNA testing and forensic evidence gathering is NOT as perfectly reliable and irrefutable as we are all led to believe.
I do NOT wish to have my DNA stored on a national register in case I get stitched up for (or even accused of) a crime I did not commit!
Even to be accused of something like rape, based on DNA evidence, and then acquitted based on other evidence is enough to ruin lives and reputations.
Read 1984.
I do NOT wish to have my DNA stored on a national register in case I get stitched up for (or even accused of) a crime I did not commit!
Even to be accused of something like rape, based on DNA evidence, and then acquitted based on other evidence is enough to ruin lives and reputations.
Read 1984.
In a perfect world a DNA database of everyone wpould be acceptable BUT this is the ESTABLISHMENT we are talking about whose track record in administration, sloth and general uselessness is on record and discussed on this site at regular intervals. Just like ID cards it is all very well but the crims would use it to their advantage one way or another. And do you trust brother Blair?
s2ooz said: so delt, would you prefer a rapist to go for months continuing to rape and beat women, becasue the police although, have dna samples, dont have any records, and cant catch him?
there ARE benefits to this scheme.
The disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
Its just another way of getting a national identity scheme up and running via stealth tactics.
I want NO part of it.
As for your question regarding rapists etc, the rules allowed for DNA testing upon being charged before, names and photos are already in the national database, so if the cops cant id someone whos already been convicted for this behaviour in the past, what difference will it make to them?
None i suspect. Its just another way of keeping tabs on people.
Nosey ol' nanny state wants to be into every facet of what we do. Whats the point of the Human Rights Act if all our rights are disregarded by government, hidden under the banner of "national security"?
The assumption is "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY", but this little setup helps to further erode that assumption, wheres the right to silence gone? Down the boghole. Britain? bah.
I have no problem in theory, having my DNA on a national database, as i believe the very mass of information would protect the individuals annonyminity.
What i do/would have a problem with is once this database was up and running, and had a generally complete record of the populations DNA, you can guarantee some smart arse is gonna come up with some great idea's on how to use the information for other things - over which we would have no effective control.
Or a change in the law in the future that affects the use and distribution of this info.
Look for at what is happening wrt sperm donation, and children getting access to the identity of their donor-fathers who clearly had no intent to personally father these children.
Society can and will change and the use of info with such an impact on individuals is quite scary.
What i do/would have a problem with is once this database was up and running, and had a generally complete record of the populations DNA, you can guarantee some smart arse is gonna come up with some great idea's on how to use the information for other things - over which we would have no effective control.
Or a change in the law in the future that affects the use and distribution of this info.
Look for at what is happening wrt sperm donation, and children getting access to the identity of their donor-fathers who clearly had no intent to personally father these children.
Society can and will change and the use of info with such an impact on individuals is quite scary.
s2ooz said: so delt, would you prefer a rapist to go for months continuing to rape and beat women, becasue the police although, have dna samples, dont have any records, and cant catch him?
there ARE benefits to this scheme.
On the Northwest news a couple of weeks ago there was a story of a liverpool?? man who was wanted by the Italian police for raping a woman in Italy based upon DNA obtained at the scene and matching it with the UK records.
It took the poor bloke weeks before the cops would accept he hadn't even been to fcuking Italy. An example of how DNA evidence nowadays imparts a false sense of guilt and relieves the authorities of their responsibility to properly investigate.
Surely the big problem is the justice system generally, not ID'ing criminals. What's the point if punishment is not a deterrant and rehab is laughable method to cynically evade any real consequence for criminal behaviour?
If l believed that the system worked and l saw justice being done with regard to the criminals the legal system currently processes then l'd be more interested in seeing these powers widened. The fact that police are so stretched (don't attend scenes the same day unless you mention 'gun') and undermotivated (catch a burglar so we can let im go scot free...twice Re: Lord Justice Wolfe) indicates that on a purely logical level this scheme has ulterior motives.
If l believed that the system worked and l saw justice being done with regard to the criminals the legal system currently processes then l'd be more interested in seeing these powers widened. The fact that police are so stretched (don't attend scenes the same day unless you mention 'gun') and undermotivated (catch a burglar so we can let im go scot free...twice Re: Lord Justice Wolfe) indicates that on a purely logical level this scheme has ulterior motives.
Its all to do with the modern culture of doing less and less in order to achieve a more focused specific aim at the expense of product quality and delivery.
The police force is no longer concerned with public relations, community policing and bobies on the beat.
Its all about targeting resources (note not humans but resources) at whichever crimes are in the political arena at the time.
So much crime that is reported nowadays is just not bothered with by police that crime will only go up and up.
The police force is no longer concerned with public relations, community policing and bobies on the beat.
Its all about targeting resources (note not humans but resources) at whichever crimes are in the political arena at the time.
So much crime that is reported nowadays is just not bothered with by police that crime will only go up and up.
Absolutely unacceptable.
Even if you are naive enough to believe that our current government, and its officers can be totally trusted with this information, can you trust the next lot to not further erode our civil liberties?
Hmm can't wait until we get the rectal GPS transponder implants. Much cheaper to catch people speeding/going to politcal meeting of parties the government dislike/etc if you have their every movement.
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