T350 Prices and Depreciation
Discussion
Hi everyone. First post so go steady. 
I've just discovered Pistonheads a couple of weeks ago after being told about it by a collegue at work, as he knows that I'm keen on looking at getting a T350 and said it would be a good source of information.
Previously I've owned the usual unimaginative cars such as Vauxhalls, Fords etc with probably the most pokie being a Calibra Turbo but am quite keen on getting a T350C / T some time in early next year.
Anyway, my question. After having familiarised myself with the forums and searches and slowly gening (sp) myself up on the pleasure and pitfalls of owning 1 of these amazing cars I've been unable to find a topic on why T350s are priced at what they are priced at.
(Now I guess this is where the bu**ering will come.)
What I'm trying to get at is, why do they hold their value so much.
I know sellers will be crying out to have me hung, draw and quartered, and I know I'm a buyer and your obviosly going to say I want to pay as little as possible, but I can't see how 2 - 3 year old cars are still priced up at nearly 30k when they started life only 10k more 2 - 3 years earlier. Do they really only depreciate 25% in 2 - 3 years? I just can't see how a car of this type can only loose around 3 - 5000 pounds per year from new.
Out of curiousity I've been on the whatcar.co.uk site and been on their depreciator and punched in many a car, and most loose on average between 50% to 80% in the first 2 - 3 years, with the exception of things like Minis, Porsche and a couple of others and even they loose around 30% - 40% in that time.
As I say, it's not a post to rub people up the wrong way
, it's just that I'm curious as to know why T350s seem to depreciate much less and command such a high price than cars that are in a stronger demand market than itself.
Is it that sellers have them overpriced, or another reason?
Thoughts?
I've just discovered Pistonheads a couple of weeks ago after being told about it by a collegue at work, as he knows that I'm keen on looking at getting a T350 and said it would be a good source of information.
Previously I've owned the usual unimaginative cars such as Vauxhalls, Fords etc with probably the most pokie being a Calibra Turbo but am quite keen on getting a T350C / T some time in early next year.
Anyway, my question. After having familiarised myself with the forums and searches and slowly gening (sp) myself up on the pleasure and pitfalls of owning 1 of these amazing cars I've been unable to find a topic on why T350s are priced at what they are priced at.
(Now I guess this is where the bu**ering will come.)
What I'm trying to get at is, why do they hold their value so much.
I know sellers will be crying out to have me hung, draw and quartered, and I know I'm a buyer and your obviosly going to say I want to pay as little as possible, but I can't see how 2 - 3 year old cars are still priced up at nearly 30k when they started life only 10k more 2 - 3 years earlier. Do they really only depreciate 25% in 2 - 3 years? I just can't see how a car of this type can only loose around 3 - 5000 pounds per year from new.
Out of curiousity I've been on the whatcar.co.uk site and been on their depreciator and punched in many a car, and most loose on average between 50% to 80% in the first 2 - 3 years, with the exception of things like Minis, Porsche and a couple of others and even they loose around 30% - 40% in that time.
As I say, it's not a post to rub people up the wrong way
, it's just that I'm curious as to know why T350s seem to depreciate much less and command such a high price than cars that are in a stronger demand market than itself. Is it that sellers have them overpriced, or another reason?
Thoughts?
I don't think that T350s do actually command high prices comparatively - I believe that some sellers are unrealistic when they price their cars - either they don't sell them or the buyer beats the seller down to a realistic price behind the scenes.
Why is this? I think the fault actually lies with the owners of the older Sp6 cars - not just the T350s. They have tried to hold an unrealistic price line which in turn forces the newer cars into unrealistic price levels - for example for a long time 2000 Tuscans were steadfastly priced above 20K - it's only in the last six months that the honestly priced sub-15K Tuscan has appeared.
Is reality finally dawning?
Ricardo
Why is this? I think the fault actually lies with the owners of the older Sp6 cars - not just the T350s. They have tried to hold an unrealistic price line which in turn forces the newer cars into unrealistic price levels - for example for a long time 2000 Tuscans were steadfastly priced above 20K - it's only in the last six months that the honestly priced sub-15K Tuscan has appeared.
Is reality finally dawning?
Ricardo
Edited by Ricardo Bertone on Tuesday 12th December 22:39
not sure of the answer, but as a buyer you should have a fantastic time getting a rock bottom price. So for example, I was offered 20k for my Tamora. I reckon that fir theses cars there'll be 5k between trade in and what it gets sold for. That makes it 25 for a car that was 31k 6 months ago! It's a may 2005 car btw.
Go and flash some cash to see what you can get!
Graham
Go and flash some cash to see what you can get!
Graham
Ricardo Bertone said:
I don't think that T350s do actually command high prices comparatively - I believe that some sellers are unrealistic when they price their cars - either they don't sell them or the buyer beats the seller down to a realistic price behind the scenes.
Edited by Ricardo Bertone on Tuesday 12th December 22:39
I agree here, I don't think they do hold their price very well and you never know what price the cars actually go for. I have mine up for sale at the moment, and if it goes for a bit less than the asking, it will have retained about 55% of it's approximate new value of £45k over 2 years (could have been more as it has quite a few options) and that's being optomistic.
Nancy Boy said:
I know sellers will be crying out to have me hung, draw and quartered, and I know I'm a buyer and your obviosly going to say I want to pay as little as possible, but I can't see how 2 - 3 year old cars are still priced up at nearly 30k when they started life only 10k more 2 - 3 years earlier. Do they really only depreciate 25% in 2 - 3 years? I just can't see how a car of this type can only loose around 3 - 5000 pounds per year from new
I think this is where you're going wrong - a 3 year old car would be on a 53 plate and I haven't seen any anywhere near the £30k mark. Also T350s that are around 2 years old were nearer £45k new once optioned up a bit afaik
Edited by TurboTomato on Wednesday 13th December 11:03
Edited by TurboTomato on Wednesday 13th December 11:04
Edited by TurboTomato on Wednesday 13th December 11:04
Thanks for the prompt responses guys. I was honestly expecting to be ignored (especially by sellers) due to the nature of the post.
It’s interesting what you said ‘TheArb’, I know there’s always abit of bartering to be done when buying, but surely the difference can’t be that big.
I won’t name names or vehicles, but as a non / new Pistonheader here are a few observations I’ve noticed,
on a certain classifieds there’s a 2003 ‘03’ up for 27,500 private, so by my reckoning assuming a 40,000 list price, the owner thinks his car has only depreciated 12,500 in nearly 4 years, or 3,125 per year.
. Try £10,000 in the first year alone. Surely cars which are 3 yr old, never mind 4 yr old, should now only be worth around 50% of what they started off at, and even then, that’s not bad depreciation over 3 years.
another example I’ve noticed is the cars that I’ve seen listed on the classifieds with some as long back as Easter. Now quite a few of these cars are still hanging around at roughly the same price as they were back then, but do their owners think that their car is impervious to depreciation and still worth the same now as what it was 8 or so months ago?
and finally, a few, but not many, dealers / independents seam to be wise to the above and have several competitively priced cars at the moment. As an example, there are several 2004 ‘54’s for sale either privately or dealer at 25,000. Why would you want to buy a car privately with no comeback or more importantly no warranty, when you can go to a dealer and without even haggling, buy a same age, similar mileage car for the same money. Don’t people realise, that when you buy privately you should pay less than you would at a dealers.
I can truly understand that as an owner they don’t want to see their pride and joy undervalued and not worth a lot. But do they not think ‘ hey I’ve got this drop dead gorgeous car in amazing condition but it’s still for sale after 8 months’.
Maybe because it’s valued to high. 
How are people valuing their cars? From what I can gather it seams to be they look at someone else’s overpriced car (mearly opinion) and say ‘mine looks as good as that so I’ll put mine on for the same or similar.’
Maybe it’s just a TVR thing and owners want to keep the prices high, which I can appreciate. You don’t want every little snot nose coming along thinking he can buy your car, but used sales tends to need ‘new money’, and that comes from the general public who live in the outside world where cars depreciate and 3 yr old cars are not worth nearly 75% of their original value, not ‘TVR world’ where owners think that after several years their cars have hardly depreciated at all.
Comment / criticism welcomed.
It’s interesting what you said ‘TheArb’, I know there’s always abit of bartering to be done when buying, but surely the difference can’t be that big.
I won’t name names or vehicles, but as a non / new Pistonheader here are a few observations I’ve noticed,
on a certain classifieds there’s a 2003 ‘03’ up for 27,500 private, so by my reckoning assuming a 40,000 list price, the owner thinks his car has only depreciated 12,500 in nearly 4 years, or 3,125 per year.
. Try £10,000 in the first year alone. Surely cars which are 3 yr old, never mind 4 yr old, should now only be worth around 50% of what they started off at, and even then, that’s not bad depreciation over 3 years. another example I’ve noticed is the cars that I’ve seen listed on the classifieds with some as long back as Easter. Now quite a few of these cars are still hanging around at roughly the same price as they were back then, but do their owners think that their car is impervious to depreciation and still worth the same now as what it was 8 or so months ago?
and finally, a few, but not many, dealers / independents seam to be wise to the above and have several competitively priced cars at the moment. As an example, there are several 2004 ‘54’s for sale either privately or dealer at 25,000. Why would you want to buy a car privately with no comeback or more importantly no warranty, when you can go to a dealer and without even haggling, buy a same age, similar mileage car for the same money. Don’t people realise, that when you buy privately you should pay less than you would at a dealers.
I can truly understand that as an owner they don’t want to see their pride and joy undervalued and not worth a lot. But do they not think ‘ hey I’ve got this drop dead gorgeous car in amazing condition but it’s still for sale after 8 months’.
Maybe because it’s valued to high. How are people valuing their cars? From what I can gather it seams to be they look at someone else’s overpriced car (mearly opinion) and say ‘mine looks as good as that so I’ll put mine on for the same or similar.’
Maybe it’s just a TVR thing and owners want to keep the prices high, which I can appreciate. You don’t want every little snot nose coming along thinking he can buy your car, but used sales tends to need ‘new money’, and that comes from the general public who live in the outside world where cars depreciate and 3 yr old cars are not worth nearly 75% of their original value, not ‘TVR world’ where owners think that after several years their cars have hardly depreciated at all.
Comment / criticism welcomed.
Nancy Boy said:
Don’t people realise, that when you buy privately you should pay less than you would at a dealers.
But we are talking about TVR world, and here it helps to meet the previous owner (providing it's just the one), observing how they've treated the car. I looked at several Tamoras on dealers' forecourts on the run up to getting mine - and I bought privately. The price wasn't much less, but the condition was better. And it paid off, because the car's been an absolute joy.
The other thing you've got to consider is what else you can get for this kind of cash. Evo? Impreza? Not in the same league. A used T350 would be cheap at twice the price.
Nancy Boy said:
Thanks for the prompt responses guys. I was honestly expecting to be ignored (especially by sellers) due to the nature of the post.
It’s interesting what you said ‘TheArb’, I know there’s always abit of bartering to be done when buying, but surely the difference can’t be that big.
I won’t name names or vehicles, but as a non / new Pistonheader here are a few observations I’ve noticed,
on a certain classifieds there’s a 2003 ‘03’ up for 27,500 private, so by my reckoning assuming a 40,000 list price, the owner thinks his car has only depreciated 12,500 in nearly 4 years, or 3,125 per year. . Try £10,000 in the first year alone. Surely cars which are 3 yr old, never mind 4 yr old, should now only be worth around 50% of what they started off at, and even then, that’s not bad depreciation over 3 years.
another example I’ve noticed is the cars that I’ve seen listed on the classifieds with some as long back as Easter. Now quite a few of these cars are still hanging around at roughly the same price as they were back then, but do their owners think that their car is impervious to depreciation and still worth the same now as what it was 8 or so months ago?
and finally, a few, but not many, dealers / independents seam to be wise to the above and have several competitively priced cars at the moment. As an example, there are several 2004 ‘54’s for sale either privately or dealer at 25,000. Why would you want to buy a car privately with no comeback or more importantly no warranty, when you can go to a dealer and without even haggling, buy a same age, similar mileage car for the same money. Don’t people realise, that when you buy privately you should pay less than you would at a dealers.
I can truly understand that as an owner they don’t want to see their pride and joy undervalued and not worth a lot. But do they not think ‘ hey I’ve got this drop dead gorgeous car in amazing condition but it’s still for sale after 8 months’. Maybe because it’s valued to high.
How are people valuing their cars? From what I can gather it seams to be they look at someone else’s overpriced car (mearly opinion) and say ‘mine looks as good as that so I’ll put mine on for the same or similar.’
Maybe it’s just a TVR thing and owners want to keep the prices high, which I can appreciate. You don’t want every little snot nose coming along thinking he can buy your car, but used sales tends to need ‘new money’, and that comes from the general public who live in the outside world where cars depreciate and 3 yr old cars are not worth nearly 75% of their original value, not ‘TVR world’ where owners think that after several years their cars have hardly depreciated at all.
Comment / criticism welcomed.
It’s interesting what you said ‘TheArb’, I know there’s always abit of bartering to be done when buying, but surely the difference can’t be that big.
I won’t name names or vehicles, but as a non / new Pistonheader here are a few observations I’ve noticed,
on a certain classifieds there’s a 2003 ‘03’ up for 27,500 private, so by my reckoning assuming a 40,000 list price, the owner thinks his car has only depreciated 12,500 in nearly 4 years, or 3,125 per year.
. Try £10,000 in the first year alone. Surely cars which are 3 yr old, never mind 4 yr old, should now only be worth around 50% of what they started off at, and even then, that’s not bad depreciation over 3 years. another example I’ve noticed is the cars that I’ve seen listed on the classifieds with some as long back as Easter. Now quite a few of these cars are still hanging around at roughly the same price as they were back then, but do their owners think that their car is impervious to depreciation and still worth the same now as what it was 8 or so months ago?
and finally, a few, but not many, dealers / independents seam to be wise to the above and have several competitively priced cars at the moment. As an example, there are several 2004 ‘54’s for sale either privately or dealer at 25,000. Why would you want to buy a car privately with no comeback or more importantly no warranty, when you can go to a dealer and without even haggling, buy a same age, similar mileage car for the same money. Don’t people realise, that when you buy privately you should pay less than you would at a dealers.
I can truly understand that as an owner they don’t want to see their pride and joy undervalued and not worth a lot. But do they not think ‘ hey I’ve got this drop dead gorgeous car in amazing condition but it’s still for sale after 8 months’.
Maybe because it’s valued to high. How are people valuing their cars? From what I can gather it seams to be they look at someone else’s overpriced car (mearly opinion) and say ‘mine looks as good as that so I’ll put mine on for the same or similar.’
Maybe it’s just a TVR thing and owners want to keep the prices high, which I can appreciate. You don’t want every little snot nose coming along thinking he can buy your car, but used sales tends to need ‘new money’, and that comes from the general public who live in the outside world where cars depreciate and 3 yr old cars are not worth nearly 75% of their original value, not ‘TVR world’ where owners think that after several years their cars have hardly depreciated at all.
Comment / criticism welcomed.
At the moment they are only worth what anyone is prepared to pay for it....
Some of your assumptions may be wrong, it may not be a 40k car, but a 45k car with options on it, 18 wheels, aircon, full leather, etc,etc,etc, specail paint
Try pretending you have a certain model/colour schem spec. and ringing a few dealers for a trade in price?
Try the same witha non tvr dealer ie porsche/ferrari/lotus? for a s6 car I'd be surprised that actually offered anyhing with tvr's uncertainty.
Historically tvr's have sold in 'relatively very small numbers. porsche have just done 200,000 boxsters i 10 years. tvr hasn't sold 20,000 cars of all models in 20 years.
thus to some extent very limited supply, ie look at autotrader only about 50 griff, 100/chims 100 ish tuscs for sale in the whole country, vs that many boxster within 5 miles of me. so in the past a nice coulour nice spec car you want, only 1-2 out there within a few miles. kept prices high ish...
Now due to TVR's uncertaininty new cars (ie 1-3 year sold are suffering badly, older cars more in the indy network for sales/service are probably doing a bit better..
B
bjwoods said:
Historically tvr's have sold in 'relatively very small numbers. porsche have just done 200,000 boxsters i 10 years. tvr hasn't sold 20,000 cars of all models in 20 years.
thus to some extent very limited supply, ie look at autotrader only about 50 griff, 100/chims 100 ish tuscs for sale in the whole country, vs that many boxster within 5 miles of me. so in the past a nice coulour nice spec car you want, only 1-2 out there within a few miles. kept prices high ish...
B
I think that is important.
Especially as those are the 'popular' TVRs.
Nationally on Autotrader are 31 T350s and 30 Tamoras.
I am selling at the moment so I will be bias but what bjwoods says is very true, these cars are specialised and in some respects only appeal to real car nuts, your typical TVR buyer will not spend 20-30k on Mitsubishi or Subaru when they can buy a TVR. Supply and demand is a massive factor boxsters are ten a penny with the buyer able to take their pick, where as if you wake up tomorrow and decide I want a T350 you may struggle to find exactly what you want because of the low numbers available.
I also believe that the uncertainty with TVR at the moment will have an impact but in the long run will not be an MG Rover scenario because there are not air strips full of unsold TVRs. (maybe a dream but some how I cant see a day where we will see a load of clappered out old TVRs clogging up peoples drive ways, generally they will still be covered in there garages with a heater next to them) I told you I was bias.
At the end of the day if owners do not drop the price of their cars and people are still buying them then that's what they are worth...Often you will find that these cars are actually worth more to them than selling them for silly money (I think this is something you can only understand having driven and owned one)
I for example deep down do not want to sell but I am torn as I also know I need something a little more practical...however we have a second car so given the option of selling it for a song to some monkey who will get masses of fun out it or keeping it...the choice is simple.
Obviously there will be those who need the money quick and a bargain can be had...
I also believe that the uncertainty with TVR at the moment will have an impact but in the long run will not be an MG Rover scenario because there are not air strips full of unsold TVRs. (maybe a dream but some how I cant see a day where we will see a load of clappered out old TVRs clogging up peoples drive ways, generally they will still be covered in there garages with a heater next to them) I told you I was bias.
At the end of the day if owners do not drop the price of their cars and people are still buying them then that's what they are worth...Often you will find that these cars are actually worth more to them than selling them for silly money (I think this is something you can only understand having driven and owned one)
I for example deep down do not want to sell but I am torn as I also know I need something a little more practical...however we have a second car so given the option of selling it for a song to some monkey who will get masses of fun out it or keeping it...the choice is simple.
Obviously there will be those who need the money quick and a bargain can be had...
TurboTomato said:
I think this is where you're going wrong - a 3 year old car would be on a 53 plate and I haven't seen any anywhere near the £30k mark. Also T350s that are around 2 years old were nearer £45k new once optioned up a bit afaik
Yes, point taken.
I'd just taken a look at the classifieds here and there and generalised on 2 - 3 yr old cars, meaning, late 53 through to late 54 and very soon to be the early 05 plates, and noticed some were in the high 20s and some in the 30s. Whereas I suppose I should have been more specific on say a 2 yr old for example, instead of choosing such a large spread of 53, 04, 54 and nearly some 05s as you are going to get a varying degree of cost difference. Appologies.
As I say, it's not to beat up on anyone, just general interest why say a 2 year old 05 plate car which if we say is at 33,000 ish has only lost 17.5% based on 40,000 or 26.6% on 45,000 in nigh on 2 years, whereas competitors loose more like 34% - Audi TT, 43% - Z4 Roadster, 40% Honda S2000, and 47% on a Mitsubishi Evo.
www.whatcar.com/depreciation-index.aspx?MA=27&MV=25483&ED_ADD=47372&RT=0&ED=49322&ED2=49392&ED3=4558&ED4=0
It just seems a big difference, especially when you take the '03' plate up at 27,500 as an example. Assuming it was priced at 40,000 to start with nigh on 4 years ago, it's only lost 31.25% in 4 years. That better than all the others above, and over twice as long!
A TVR, is an expensive, gas guzzling out and out performance weekend car, that'll cost you a fortune to run (public's perception) surely they can't outstrip the market leaders by twice on depreciation?
Can they?
scotty1 said:
Supply and demand is a massive factor boxsters are ten a penny with the buyer able to take their pick,
True, but even so, they still command a high % of their original purchase price for age, and from what I've seen on tracking previous sales over the last 6 months, it appears as if not many people are beating a path to TVR owners, and dealers doors.
Nancy Boy said:
True, but even so, they still command a high % of their original purchase price for age, and from what I've seen on tracking previous sales over the last 6 months, it appears as if not many people are beating a path to TVR owners, and dealers doors.
So, are ya gonna get one or what?
Spoonman said:
You're still not comparing like with like - because there's nothing like a T350 (or Tamora, which is of course better ) for this kind of cash .
If it all boils down to money, you won't be satisfied with a TVR.
) for this kind of cash . If it all boils down to money, you won't be satisfied with a TVR.
I agree with Spoonman at the end of the day the prices are what they are no rhyme or reason (pretty much the norm with TVR
), maybe TVR is not for you. Waiting until early next year may be a bad idea if TVRs futures becomes more certain then the bargains you are hoping for may not be so readily available
Spoonman said:
You're still not comparing like with like - because there's nothing like a T350 (or Tamora, which is of course better )
Very true. ) Spoonman said:
If it all boils down to money, you won't be satisfied with a TVR.
No, not at all. I'm one of those people who is prepared to pay alittle more to be differnet from the crowd, but am just trying to get a measure for how people have valued their cars, and realistically what you should be paying for a T350.
Gassing Station | Tamora, T350 & Sagaris | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff