NIP too late??
Discussion
just received an NIP for an alledged contravention of speed restriction committed on 23/11/06 at 10.28 AM (43 in a 30)
NIP states it was issued on 08/12/06 (its come via a leasing company hence the extra delay in coming to me)
by my reckoning 23rd november + 14 days = 7th December
the leaflet with the fine states NIP must be sent to registered keeper with 14 days of the detection of the alledged offence.
so my question is does anyone else think that Avon and Somerset police have screwed this up or will they claim that 23rd November plus 14 days is 8th December, or that its simply a typo and cough up sunshine?
ta
Fresher
NIP states it was issued on 08/12/06 (its come via a leasing company hence the extra delay in coming to me)
by my reckoning 23rd november + 14 days = 7th December
the leaflet with the fine states NIP must be sent to registered keeper with 14 days of the detection of the alledged offence.
so my question is does anyone else think that Avon and Somerset police have screwed this up or will they claim that 23rd November plus 14 days is 8th December, or that its simply a typo and cough up sunshine?
ta
Fresher
NOIP , as stated, has to be sent and posted (Rec Del, Reg Post or First Class)so that it is received in the ordinary course of the post within 14 days ignoring the date of the offence. Therefore should have been received by last post on 7th December 2006.
If poster is not the recorded Reg Owner of the vehicle then it could have been sent to that person, they replied as to who using the vehicle, and a NOIP sent (any post) on to that person and dated out of time. If this is the case then service is good because it originally to Reg Keeper.
If poster is the Reg Keeper then it would appear the service is bad unless SCP can prove cock up with details at DVLA - i.e. recent change of ownership etc. If they can then good service.
dvd
If poster is not the recorded Reg Owner of the vehicle then it could have been sent to that person, they replied as to who using the vehicle, and a NOIP sent (any post) on to that person and dated out of time. If this is the case then service is good because it originally to Reg Keeper.
If poster is the Reg Keeper then it would appear the service is bad unless SCP can prove cock up with details at DVLA - i.e. recent change of ownership etc. If they can then good service.
dvd
refresher said:
think you've missed the point slightly, doesn't matter to whom the NIP was issued cos it was issued too late
alleged offence occurred 23/11/06
date of issue of NIP 08/12/06
difference is more than 14 days therefore NIP is null and void
You're right - I skim read cos I'm at busy at work alleged offence occurred 23/11/06
date of issue of NIP 08/12/06
difference is more than 14 days therefore NIP is null and void
I think you might have a case here...
I think you might have a point here, NIP has clearly been issued on the 15th day, although not sure how it works when the registered keeper is not the driver.
It may be worth giving them a call, OK they'll probably give you a load of flanell, but then again they may just cancel the ticket, for the price of a phone call it's worth a try.
I have a friend who runs a company, one of his cars was snapped by a mobile camera in Tayside Police area, and he recieved an NIP. Phoned them up and spoke to an Inspector, said he didn't know who was driving, and that he had questioned all his staff and nobody would admit to it. The Inspector cancelled the ticket there and then.
It may be worth giving them a call, OK they'll probably give you a load of flanell, but then again they may just cancel the ticket, for the price of a phone call it's worth a try.
I have a friend who runs a company, one of his cars was snapped by a mobile camera in Tayside Police area, and he recieved an NIP. Phoned them up and spoke to an Inspector, said he didn't know who was driving, and that he had questioned all his staff and nobody would admit to it. The Inspector cancelled the ticket there and then.
An extension to this thread - related but different. Sequence of events thus:
Alleged speeding offence
NIP issued
FPN offered
(other postal exchanges omitted for simplicity's sake)
What is the time limit for any subsequent summons?
I have 6 months in my head. Is that right? And is it from the date of the alleged offence or from the NIP or FPN issue date?
Alleged speeding offence
NIP issued
FPN offered
(other postal exchanges omitted for simplicity's sake)
What is the time limit for any subsequent summons?
I have 6 months in my head. Is that right? And is it from the date of the alleged offence or from the NIP or FPN issue date?
Edited by cheeky on Saturday 30th December 01:41
cheeky said:
An extension to this thread - related but different. Sequence of events thus:
Alleged speeding offence
NIP issued
FPN offered
(other postal exchanges omitted for simplicity's sake)
What is the time limit for any subsequent summons?
I have 6 months in my head. Is that right? And is it from the date of the alleged offence or from the NIP or FPN issue date?
Alleged speeding offence
NIP issued
FPN offered
(other postal exchanges omitted for simplicity's sake)
What is the time limit for any subsequent summons?
I have 6 months in my head. Is that right? And is it from the date of the alleged offence or from the NIP or FPN issue date?
Information has to be laid before the court within 6 months of the offence. The summons can come after that time.
cheeky said:
Thanks. Is there a date after which a summons may no longer be issued? And how would someone know if information has been laid before a court?
The summons could be issued years later, but unless there are exceptional circumstances for such a delay you could argue abuse of process. With regards to information before the court you'd have to ask the court.
refresher said:
NIP states it was issued on 08/12/06 (its come via a leasing company hence the extra delay in coming to me)
By this do you mean the leasing company forwarded the NOIP to you asis, or that it has come directly from the SCP? If the former, then service is out of time; if the latter, then service is in time - Streaky 
refresher said:
NIP states it was issued on 08/12/06 (its come via a leasing company hence the extra delay in coming to me)
by my reckoning 23rd november + 14 days = 7th December
When you say "its come via a leasing company", do you mean they recieved a NIP in their name dated 8/12/06 and instead of sending it back to the A&S Scam people they've just forwarded it to you? by my reckoning 23rd november + 14 days = 7th December
The system works thus Cheeky:
Following an offence of speeding that it going to Court papers are placed before the Magistrates Court Office about the offence and they raise an INFORMATION:
"..is a charge made before a JP (one is sufficient) to the effect that some person has or is suspected of having committed an offence....
suspected person need not be present and this can be done orally or in writing. The later is the order of the day. Once raised then that is the authority for issuing a summons. The date the information is raised is entered on the summons.
Limitation on proceedings are 6 months from when the offence became known to the prosecutor ( for speeding - up to 3 years certain other traffic offences of the heavier nature) and if the information is not raised within this time then summons cannot be issued and no proceedings can be taken.
One the summons :
"a written order signed by or on behalf of a JP, directing the person named therein to appear at a given time in the Court named with reference to the matter set out therein"
has been taken out then there is no time limit on it and it can remain on file until served. However, any undue and unexplainable delay in effecting its service can be raised at Court and could lead to a condemnation by the Bench and thrown out.
I understand that a cull of outstanding summons is carried out periodically and where appropriate application made to Court to have them withdrawn.
dvd
Following an offence of speeding that it going to Court papers are placed before the Magistrates Court Office about the offence and they raise an INFORMATION:
"..is a charge made before a JP (one is sufficient) to the effect that some person has or is suspected of having committed an offence....
suspected person need not be present and this can be done orally or in writing. The later is the order of the day. Once raised then that is the authority for issuing a summons. The date the information is raised is entered on the summons.
Limitation on proceedings are 6 months from when the offence became known to the prosecutor ( for speeding - up to 3 years certain other traffic offences of the heavier nature) and if the information is not raised within this time then summons cannot be issued and no proceedings can be taken.
One the summons :
"a written order signed by or on behalf of a JP, directing the person named therein to appear at a given time in the Court named with reference to the matter set out therein"
has been taken out then there is no time limit on it and it can remain on file until served. However, any undue and unexplainable delay in effecting its service can be raised at Court and could lead to a condemnation by the Bench and thrown out.
I understand that a cull of outstanding summons is carried out periodically and where appropriate application made to Court to have them withdrawn.
dvd
refresher said:
.... by my reckoning 23rd november + 14 days = 7th December ...
Sorry if I've missed this in the thread somewhere (but I did read it and get lost in the legalese), but it was my understanding that the 14 days started the day after the alledged offence. So it's therefore 15 days from date of alledged offence.
I might well be wrong - but if I'm right, then the NIP stands.
K
Erm! Could this be because the original NIP was sent to the registered keeper (Leasing Co) I received one dated 28/07 for an offence committed on 23/07. Sent it back naming the wife as driver (she was). She then received one dated 18/08 Clearly more than 14/15 days after the event. Can they do this??
Edited by Purple AK on Saturday 30th December 19:37
Purple AK said:
Erm! Could this be because the original NIP was sent to the registered keeper (Leasing Co) I recieved one dated 28/07 for an offence committed on 23/07. Sent it back naming the wife as driver (she was). She then recieved one dated 18/08 Clearly more than 14/15 days after the event. Can they do this??
Yep it's only the original NIP to the registered keeper that has to be served within 14 days of commission of the offence.
Purple AK said:
Erm! Could this be because the original NIP was sent to the registered keeper (Leasing Co) I received one dated 28/07 for an offence committed on 23/07. Sent it back naming the wife as driver (she was). She then received one dated 18/08 Clearly more than 14/15 days after the event. Can they do this??
Edited by Purple AK on Saturday 30th December 19:37
Thanks Von.
Apparently they can
www.pepipoo.com/images/Staffs_14_day_rule.jpg
Edited by Purple AK on Saturday 30th December 19:43
Edited by Purple AK on Saturday 30th December 19:44
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