Facing a ban! or maybe not???
Discussion
Right on my usual route tyo work, running late, on my bike, so naturally i was scooting on a bit.
Came down the bypass to a roundabout, went around roundabout at around 20 mph as it was raining and very greasy.
Very few cars about at 6.50 in the morning as well. Left the second exit of the roundabout and gunned it up and over the mile long stretch from one roundabout to the next.
Down to the next roundabout, round that one at 20 mph again and exit on the second exit. Another short squirt to another roundabout and round that at 20 also, onto my local industrial estate and into my work. Helmet off, bike turned off, into tea room and clock in. Next thing blue lights fly past the window, pull into car park, out steps traffic officer
Orders me to climb into his car which i do. He then proceeds to tell me theres been various complaints from the town of a loud motorcycle going round the bypass between 6.45 and 7 am. He asks me what speed i was doing as he was doing 95 and wasnt catching me. I said about a ton, ton 10 ( i know keep mouth shut but im too honest and wasnt really awake)He then asks me why i was doing that speed, was i trying to get away from him. I replied with i didnt evan know he was behind me ( checked mirrors off first round about and i was about 300 metres up it when i saw HID lights exit the roundabout. thought nothing of it.
I told him i was late for work and under noramal circumstances i wouldnt dream of doing those speeds in the wet and at this time of year as it is very greasy out.
He then takes a look at my bike, writes my reg down and proceeds to tell me my plate is too small ( he doesnt measure it)
Then looks at my exhaust, cant find anywhere on it that says ' not for road use' but also cant find a BS kite mark. The exhaust is from the states i tell him and im not sure if they have them.
He takes no other evidence, im handed no pieces of paper, he doesnt ask for my licesnce or give me a producer, he has no speed gun or vascar video ar reading of my actual speed or of my number plate.
He runs an insurance and ID check on me which all come back ok.
He then tells me for admiting the speed i was doing, the small plate and loud exhaust that i can expect a court summons and more than highly likely a ban.
now im very confused by all this as others who have been stoped for simlar tell me that he has no real evidence to prosicute me. This information comming from an ex traffic cop that a friend knows.
The ex traffic cop advised me to get my exhaust changed andf number plate as they will be waiting to see if i do anything about it, which i plan to, as a HGV driver, i really need to keep my licencse.
Any advice or piece of mind knowledge will be greatly appreciated.
I understand i have broken the law by speeding etc, but under noraml circumstances I>E me not being late, i wouldnt be doing those spedds in a 60 limit.
Thanks
Nik
Came down the bypass to a roundabout, went around roundabout at around 20 mph as it was raining and very greasy.
Very few cars about at 6.50 in the morning as well. Left the second exit of the roundabout and gunned it up and over the mile long stretch from one roundabout to the next.
Down to the next roundabout, round that one at 20 mph again and exit on the second exit. Another short squirt to another roundabout and round that at 20 also, onto my local industrial estate and into my work. Helmet off, bike turned off, into tea room and clock in. Next thing blue lights fly past the window, pull into car park, out steps traffic officer
Orders me to climb into his car which i do. He then proceeds to tell me theres been various complaints from the town of a loud motorcycle going round the bypass between 6.45 and 7 am. He asks me what speed i was doing as he was doing 95 and wasnt catching me. I said about a ton, ton 10 ( i know keep mouth shut but im too honest and wasnt really awake)He then asks me why i was doing that speed, was i trying to get away from him. I replied with i didnt evan know he was behind me ( checked mirrors off first round about and i was about 300 metres up it when i saw HID lights exit the roundabout. thought nothing of it.
I told him i was late for work and under noramal circumstances i wouldnt dream of doing those speeds in the wet and at this time of year as it is very greasy out.
He then takes a look at my bike, writes my reg down and proceeds to tell me my plate is too small ( he doesnt measure it)
Then looks at my exhaust, cant find anywhere on it that says ' not for road use' but also cant find a BS kite mark. The exhaust is from the states i tell him and im not sure if they have them.
He takes no other evidence, im handed no pieces of paper, he doesnt ask for my licesnce or give me a producer, he has no speed gun or vascar video ar reading of my actual speed or of my number plate.
He runs an insurance and ID check on me which all come back ok.
He then tells me for admiting the speed i was doing, the small plate and loud exhaust that i can expect a court summons and more than highly likely a ban.
now im very confused by all this as others who have been stoped for simlar tell me that he has no real evidence to prosicute me. This information comming from an ex traffic cop that a friend knows.
The ex traffic cop advised me to get my exhaust changed andf number plate as they will be waiting to see if i do anything about it, which i plan to, as a HGV driver, i really need to keep my licencse.
Any advice or piece of mind knowledge will be greatly appreciated.
I understand i have broken the law by speeding etc, but under noraml circumstances I>E me not being late, i wouldnt be doing those spedds in a 60 limit.
Thanks
Nik
Edited by jonnydiscopants on Friday 15th December 20:12
jonnydiscopants said:
oh forgto to add. he read me the 'anything you say may be given in evidence blah blah at the end of our conversation, then proceeded to tell me that he had recorded our conversation, tapping a tv screen in the car that was turned off?????
isn't he suppose to give you this BEFORE quesioning you ?
I was under the impression, anything before the caution is just a chat, am I being nieve ?
The OP needs to write out the full sequence of events concerning this. Unless his bike is on the video / speed camera / officer properly recorded the speed its unlikely he has any real evidence apart from the admission. The caution issue does have an impact although it could count as a significant statement. If there was an interview then the officer needed to caution and write it all down and offer book to sign. It all seems a bit un-professional for a Traffic Officer as there are lots of possible holes and the TO's I know are very carefull to follow the set procedures.
The video may have been on even with the screen blank. The cameras can be turned.
The video may have been on even with the screen blank. The cameras can be turned.
he wasnt close enough i didnt think to have got an actual proper reading of my speed as the road he referred to where i was speeding is up a hill that curves to the right and then drops down a hill again to the roundabout. Also i thought they had to follow you for a certain distance before they could get an accurate enough reading of your speed
He never evan mentioned video evidence of me or offered to show me it.
He never evan mentioned video evidence of me or offered to show me it.
Edited by jonnydiscopants on Friday 15th December 20:50
im guessing he was waiting for me at the first roundabout, although i didnt see him. i accelerated up the bypass, checkin my mirrors about 300 meteres from the roundabout, where i saw HID headlights come onto the roundabout. I continued to accelerate upto around 110, before braking about 300 meteres before the next roundabout, off at the second exit fr another 400 metres roughly, upto about 8o mph before slowing down to about 15 mph at the roundabout and off the third exit. I looked back up the road and didnt see any lights at all.
Rode down to my work, into the car park, and into the warehouse. Took off my helmet . turned the bike off, and went into the tea room and clocked in. Then i see blue lights and hear the sirens past the tearoom window, and pull up outside our warehouse. I go outside and meet the policeman. He walks over, writes down my registration number and then he tells me to get into the car.
He then tells me there has been complaints of excessive noise on the bypass from a motorcycle between 6.45 and 7.00 am. He then asked me how fast i thought i was going, to which i replied ' about a ton, ton 10 maybe'
He then wrote down my name and address.
He then went on about riding at that speed in these conditions is very dangerous etc and asked me why i was off that fast? did i have a reason? was i trying to get away from him?
I replied with ' i didnt evan notice you were evan following me until i saw you come past the tearoom window. i was riding at the speed as i was late for work, no other reason. Usualy due to the conditions and time of year and the fact im on a motorcycle, i wouldnt ride anywhere near that speed '
He asked me why i didnt hear the sirens going, to which i replied ' i wear earplugs to cut down on the wind noise, s it limits your hearing.'
He then ran an insurance check on me which came back ok.
We then got out of the car and took a look at my exhaust, which is not stamped ' not for road use' or ' race use only' noe does it carry a british standards kite mark which he said they could prosecute against me for. He wrote down the make of the exhaust.
He then asked me about my plate, which i told him was on there because my original one snapped in half and it was the one i got with the bike, whilst i was waiting for my other to be made as this is my only method of transport.
We then got back into the car, he read cautioned me and told me that the conversation we have had previuosly had been recorded, and i could expect a court summons in the post and face a ban and a fine.
He never mentioned that he had video evidence of my actual recorded speed, that i was riding in a dangerous manner or without due care and attention.
thats about it i think
Rode down to my work, into the car park, and into the warehouse. Took off my helmet . turned the bike off, and went into the tea room and clocked in. Then i see blue lights and hear the sirens past the tearoom window, and pull up outside our warehouse. I go outside and meet the policeman. He walks over, writes down my registration number and then he tells me to get into the car.
He then tells me there has been complaints of excessive noise on the bypass from a motorcycle between 6.45 and 7.00 am. He then asked me how fast i thought i was going, to which i replied ' about a ton, ton 10 maybe'
He then wrote down my name and address.
He then went on about riding at that speed in these conditions is very dangerous etc and asked me why i was off that fast? did i have a reason? was i trying to get away from him?
I replied with ' i didnt evan notice you were evan following me until i saw you come past the tearoom window. i was riding at the speed as i was late for work, no other reason. Usualy due to the conditions and time of year and the fact im on a motorcycle, i wouldnt ride anywhere near that speed '
He asked me why i didnt hear the sirens going, to which i replied ' i wear earplugs to cut down on the wind noise, s it limits your hearing.'
He then ran an insurance check on me which came back ok.
We then got out of the car and took a look at my exhaust, which is not stamped ' not for road use' or ' race use only' noe does it carry a british standards kite mark which he said they could prosecute against me for. He wrote down the make of the exhaust.
He then asked me about my plate, which i told him was on there because my original one snapped in half and it was the one i got with the bike, whilst i was waiting for my other to be made as this is my only method of transport.
We then got back into the car, he read cautioned me and told me that the conversation we have had previuosly had been recorded, and i could expect a court summons in the post and face a ban and a fine.
He never mentioned that he had video evidence of my actual recorded speed, that i was riding in a dangerous manner or without due care and attention.
thats about it i think
Edited by jonnydiscopants on Friday 15th December 21:22
Edited by jonnydiscopants on Friday 15th December 21:25
As others may have stated, the reason why they ask how fast you think you were going is so they dont have to have any other evidence.
It is very unlikely that they would have had sufficient evidence to prosecute without you admittance. Indeed I have been in a similar situation and maintained I was looking at the road ahead and not my speedo and received a producer and a ticking off.
He could have told you that your conversation was recorded for two reasons:
1) Because it was recorded.
2) Because he wanted to sh*t you up and think you were going to get a ban.
3) Because you will get a summons through for the exhuast and number plate offences and also one for 110 in a 60 (guessing NSL). He wants you to think that the conversation was recorded so you will enter a guilty plea as you will presume that the tape will be played in court if you plead otherwise.
However there is a good chance that the conversation was not recorded. That is not a situation I have heard of before, and I am pretty sure that if your conversation is being recorded that you need to be told beforehand.
If the conversation was not recorded then there will be precious little evidence to convict you of speeding apart from the police statement of you admitting that you were speeding.
In a nutshell you may be looking at a ban. I would write down exactly what was said now, as the sumons may not come through for 6 months. You will find out at that point what you are being 'shopped' for. Depending on your financial situation a solicitor may be in order unless you want to admit your guilt to the whole lot - which my guesstimate will unfortunately be a ban I am afraid.
It is very unlikely that they would have had sufficient evidence to prosecute without you admittance. Indeed I have been in a similar situation and maintained I was looking at the road ahead and not my speedo and received a producer and a ticking off.
He could have told you that your conversation was recorded for two reasons:
1) Because it was recorded.
2) Because he wanted to sh*t you up and think you were going to get a ban.
3) Because you will get a summons through for the exhuast and number plate offences and also one for 110 in a 60 (guessing NSL). He wants you to think that the conversation was recorded so you will enter a guilty plea as you will presume that the tape will be played in court if you plead otherwise.
However there is a good chance that the conversation was not recorded. That is not a situation I have heard of before, and I am pretty sure that if your conversation is being recorded that you need to be told beforehand.
If the conversation was not recorded then there will be precious little evidence to convict you of speeding apart from the police statement of you admitting that you were speeding.
In a nutshell you may be looking at a ban. I would write down exactly what was said now, as the sumons may not come through for 6 months. You will find out at that point what you are being 'shopped' for. Depending on your financial situation a solicitor may be in order unless you want to admit your guilt to the whole lot - which my guesstimate will unfortunately be a ban I am afraid.
so in a nutshell, i could plead not guilty and hope that he hasnt recorded the conversation?
how likely is it that it has been recorded? i myself have never heard this.
or i can plead guilty ( if it does go to court) and end up with a ban?
any rough idea on the length of the ban for this speed?
will i need to do a re-test or just apply for my licensce again??
Only thing that really is going to go against me is i have 6 points for speeding already. One was 2 years ago, 95 on the m180, just recieved a letter through the post, 3 points 60 pound fine,
the other was 25th of november, 2006, 39 in a 30, again by letter in the post, 3 points and 60 pound fine......
seriously im shitting it as i need my licensce for work
If the conversation has been recorded, is it enough evidence to prosecute me with?
how likely is it that it has been recorded? i myself have never heard this.
or i can plead guilty ( if it does go to court) and end up with a ban?
any rough idea on the length of the ban for this speed?
will i need to do a re-test or just apply for my licensce again??
Only thing that really is going to go against me is i have 6 points for speeding already. One was 2 years ago, 95 on the m180, just recieved a letter through the post, 3 points 60 pound fine,
the other was 25th of november, 2006, 39 in a 30, again by letter in the post, 3 points and 60 pound fine......
seriously im shitting it as i need my licensce for work
If the conversation has been recorded, is it enough evidence to prosecute me with?
Edited by jonnydiscopants on Saturday 16th December 00:00
Edited by jonnydiscopants on Saturday 16th December 00:01
safespeed said:
Surely an admission made in advance of caution is inadmissible in evidence because of PACE?
No it's not - if someone makes a significant statement prior to caution that is admissible. Admissibility is about fairness in the view of the judge.
Walk into a Police station and say that you committed xyz murder. You'll then get arrested, cautioned and questioned, but your original statement will be admissible (although they'd rather hope for a few more details under caution and recorded).
Gutted to read this mate.
It sounds like another case of Lincolnshire police not running this according to procedure.
I hope this doenst turn out badly for you. Yes you was speeding but at the end of the day, speeding bikes, tend to only kill them selves, and suicide laws have been lifted.
If there is anything I can do to help you have my number.
It sounds like another case of Lincolnshire police not running this according to procedure.
I hope this doenst turn out badly for you. Yes you was speeding but at the end of the day, speeding bikes, tend to only kill them selves, and suicide laws have been lifted.
If there is anything I can do to help you have my number.
cheers ben 
guess ill just have to wait and see what comes of it. Bikes all back to standard quiet boring machine again now So if he is lurking next week, at least he will see ive took his bollocking in and done something about it. Hopefully thats all he was trying to do ( fingers crossed)
guess ill just have to wait and see what comes of it. Bikes all back to standard quiet boring machine again now
So if he is lurking next week, at least he will see ive took his bollocking in and done something about it. Hopefully thats all he was trying to do ( fingers crossed)
, that's 62 mph + 6 mph = 68 MPH so you should be safe . Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff