Courtesy causes confusion?
Discussion
Holding back to let somebody out is ok.
Indicating to somebody else to come out is not ok - if say a motorbike (that you haven't seen) comes past you and clatters into the person you have just waved out, you could maybe be held at least partially liable (even although the other driver should only act on the direction of a police officer or traffic warden blah blah blah...
Create the space and let them make the decision...
Indicating to somebody else to come out is not ok - if say a motorbike (that you haven't seen) comes past you and clatters into the person you have just waved out, you could maybe be held at least partially liable (even although the other driver should only act on the direction of a police officer or traffic warden blah blah blah...
Create the space and let them make the decision...
mph999 said:
Spot on tvrgit, just hold back and let them decide. Do not flash/wave as if they are in a subdequent collision, eg. with a bike that undertakes you, you could be held liable.
Martin
Martin
Not legally liable, I would say, though one might feel uncomfortable morally.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
A few years ago the wife was trying to turn right into a main rd. Traffic in the main rd stopped both ways. Lorry driver flashes to let her out...
She very slowly turns right and BAM ! Moped rider hooning down the middle strikes her front offside wing.
He was Ok apart from a twisted ankle. Wife was found 100% at fault.
Our 10yr old car written off
She very slowly turns right and BAM ! Moped rider hooning down the middle strikes her front offside wing.
He was Ok apart from a twisted ankle. Wife was found 100% at fault.
Our 10yr old car written off
I have always been told that "Yes" - you can be found legally liable if you signal another road user to perform an action that subsequently causes a collision.
For this reason I agree with other posters - simply leave a gap that makes it clear there is enough room for the other road user to perform their manouvre safely. Let them be the judge of whether or not they have room.
I will also add that I believe that "misplaced courtesy" can cause confusion, accidents and congestion. I have no problem with helping people out of side roads..I do it myself..but if you've checked your mirrors and there's a gap of a mile and half behind you what was the point?
The best advice is to follow the rules of the road. If you have right of way - take it - swiftly and confidently. That way you get out of the way and let everyone else get on without wasting their time.
For this reason I agree with other posters - simply leave a gap that makes it clear there is enough room for the other road user to perform their manouvre safely. Let them be the judge of whether or not they have room.
I will also add that I believe that "misplaced courtesy" can cause confusion, accidents and congestion. I have no problem with helping people out of side roads..I do it myself..but if you've checked your mirrors and there's a gap of a mile and half behind you what was the point?
The best advice is to follow the rules of the road. If you have right of way - take it - swiftly and confidently. That way you get out of the way and let everyone else get on without wasting their time.
Edited by Don on Monday 18th December 08:21
Don's point is a good one, and one that I make often to associates - it's really quite infuriating to be set for turning right into a minor road, ready to go after the last car, only to have that last car slow down and signal you to go. There is a compulsion to hurry the manoeuvre in this circumstance that must be resisted. If you're the last car blocking someone, and there's a big gap behind you, then they are probably geared up to go behind you, so just get past. If you're in the middle of a long, slow-moving queue that's blocking them, then open up a gap and, preferably, stop (again, it's confusing and worrying if you keep rolling forward).
If I'm approaching a right hand turn and there's someone waiting to turn right out of it, I sometimes wait and let them go. This depends on many things as usual.
If their positioning is such that it makes my turn more difficult or reduces my safety margin, I will let them go provided that I can slow to a crawl/stop far enough away for my intentions to be clear. I also need to consider the traffic behind me as usual.
If someone is waiting to turn right across my path, I will try to let them go if I can do so by adjusting my gap to the vehicle ahead (I agree with the points above about doing this only when there is no safe gap behind me for them to use).
If in the same situation, someone else is waiting to turn out of the same side road, the situation becomes more complicated. If the oncoming is waiting for the car in the side turning to pull out, I may slow to a crawl well away from both and let them sort it out.
Otherwise, I try to let neither go.
I try to avoid signalling to let people out, but will admit that from time to time I do. My current belief is that there are situations where it is 100% clear that it is safe to signal to someone, situations as above where it is 100% clear that it is not safe and the rest where it could be a problem. I need to get better at this.
I've certainly been advised very strongly by a police advanced instructor not to signal to pedestrians to cross as his view was that the driver could be held liable if they were then hit by someone.
Stuart
If their positioning is such that it makes my turn more difficult or reduces my safety margin, I will let them go provided that I can slow to a crawl/stop far enough away for my intentions to be clear. I also need to consider the traffic behind me as usual.
If someone is waiting to turn right across my path, I will try to let them go if I can do so by adjusting my gap to the vehicle ahead (I agree with the points above about doing this only when there is no safe gap behind me for them to use).
If in the same situation, someone else is waiting to turn out of the same side road, the situation becomes more complicated. If the oncoming is waiting for the car in the side turning to pull out, I may slow to a crawl well away from both and let them sort it out.
Otherwise, I try to let neither go.
I try to avoid signalling to let people out, but will admit that from time to time I do. My current belief is that there are situations where it is 100% clear that it is safe to signal to someone, situations as above where it is 100% clear that it is not safe and the rest where it could be a problem. I need to get better at this.
I've certainly been advised very strongly by a police advanced instructor not to signal to pedestrians to cross as his view was that the driver could be held liable if they were then hit by someone.
Stuart
stuart b said:
If someone is waiting to turn right across my path, I will try to let them go if I can do so by adjusting my gap to the vehicle ahead (I agree with the points above about doing this only when there is no safe gap behind me for them to use).
This is one of the best examples of when you should if possible allow the vehicle to do his right turn thus allowing the vehicles stacked up behind him to proceed.
That is of course as long as it's not a woman wanting to turn right, this happened today at about 3:30 pm, I slowed down, flashed my lights just as she looked away from me(I was slowing down anyway as I wanted to turn left into the same road), then she looked at me so I flashed again and gesticulated to her to pull across, she waved at me like a school kid and didn't move.
I gave up and just turned left and waved back she must have thought she had done me a favour.
slowly slowly said:
stuart b said:
If someone is waiting to turn right across my path, I will try to let them go if I can do so by adjusting my gap to the vehicle ahead (I agree with the points above about doing this only when there is no safe gap behind me for them to use).
This is one of the best examples of when you should if possible allow the vehicle to do his right turn thus allowing the vehicles stacked up behind him to proceed.
That is of course as long as it's not a woman wanting to turn right, this happened today at about 3:30 pm, I slowed down, flashed my lights just as she looked away from me(I was slowing down anyway as I wanted to turn left into the same road), then she looked at me so I flashed again and gesticulated to her to pull across, she waved at me like a school kid and didn't move.
I gave up and just turned left and waved back she must have thought she had done me a favour.
Very similar story here - someone trying to turn right (it was a women, but I'm not going to blame the behaviour on that one....!). Traffic my side was moving at about 10 mph, and I had a decent gap in front of me so just eased off and opened a fairly big gap. The person turning right just gave me a dirty look, and continued to blankly stare at me as I then lost patience and accelerated past. Just drove off thinking, unlucky, you should see the queue of traffic that I'm only the middle off! She must have been waiting quite some time afterwards.
My lack of signalling nearly caused a pile-up on the motorway.....I was in lane 1 and a van was trying to join from a slip road. His speed was slightly slower than mine but he was a good distance in front of me.
Even though I eased off and he had plenty of room to join, he simply wouldn't move into my lane. I assume he was either waiting for me to flash him, or waiting for me to move into lane 2 (which I couldn't do).
He ended up braking almost to stop, and was waving his hands a bit in frustration. The cars behind him weren't too happy either.
Even though I eased off and he had plenty of room to join, he simply wouldn't move into my lane. I assume he was either waiting for me to flash him, or waiting for me to move into lane 2 (which I couldn't do).
He ended up braking almost to stop, and was waving his hands a bit in frustration. The cars behind him weren't too happy either.
leosayer said:
My lack of signalling nearly caused a pile-up on the motorway.....I was in lane 1 and a van was trying to join from a slip road. His speed was slightly slower than mine but he was a good distance in front of me.
Even though I eased off and he had plenty of room to join, he simply wouldn't move into my lane. I assume he was either waiting for me to flash him, or waiting for me to move into lane 2 (which I couldn't do).
He ended up braking almost to stop, and was waving his hands a bit in frustration. The cars behind him weren't too happy either.
Even though I eased off and he had plenty of room to join, he simply wouldn't move into my lane. I assume he was either waiting for me to flash him, or waiting for me to move into lane 2 (which I couldn't do).
He ended up braking almost to stop, and was waving his hands a bit in frustration. The cars behind him weren't too happy either.
Don't you just love it when the car in front treats the sliproad like a give way junction....
It is a give way junction, just one arranged so that there are very few circumstances where you have to slow/stop.
Someone posted on here a while back a good trick for avoiding being forced into an awkward situation wrt having to stop and give way, which was to work out in advance that it was likely to happen and come to a halt near the beginning of where the slip road merges, not right at the end as in the usual un-anticipated case. That way you have the whole length of the merging bit to get up some speed before you pull out.
Someone posted on here a while back a good trick for avoiding being forced into an awkward situation wrt having to stop and give way, which was to work out in advance that it was likely to happen and come to a halt near the beginning of where the slip road merges, not right at the end as in the usual un-anticipated case. That way you have the whole length of the merging bit to get up some speed before you pull out.
Pigeon said:
It is a give way junction, just one arranged so that there are very few circumstances where you have to slow/stop.
Someone posted on here a while back a good trick for avoiding being forced into an awkward situation wrt having to stop and give way, which was to work out in advance that it was likely to happen and come to a halt near the beginning of where the slip road merges, not right at the end as in the usual un-anticipated case. That way you have the whole length of the merging bit to get up some speed before you pull out.
Someone posted on here a while back a good trick for avoiding being forced into an awkward situation wrt having to stop and give way, which was to work out in advance that it was likely to happen and come to a halt near the beginning of where the slip road merges, not right at the end as in the usual un-anticipated case. That way you have the whole length of the merging bit to get up some speed before you pull out.
technically you are right, but I'm kind off meaning the ones who trundle down quite slowly, then get to the bottom with no hope of joining the faster traffic even when there is gaps because of the speed differences.
If the road your joining is very busy then fair enough, but I've seen a few occasions when a little squeeze of the throttle earlier on the slip would have prevented any incident in the first place.
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