Airbag Numpties
Discussion
Spotted two cars recently (MX5 & Ford KA ) both have air bags as standard and both had them removed. Driven by the usual Max Power numpties, but why 
.
I appreciate that a top Momo etc is the dogs danglies and does improve driving pleasure, but is it worth it. Airbags are not just for fancy they actually do save lives. I personally wouldn't buy a car now without at least two airbags ( I know about TVR thats another discussion). I'd rarther not meet my maker with the Momo logo inscribed on my forehead, but thats me, what do I know !!!!
edited because TVR doesn't count in this discussion
>>> Edited by Phil Dicky on Saturday 29th March 12:22
. I appreciate that a top Momo etc is the dogs danglies and does improve driving pleasure, but is it worth it. Airbags are not just for fancy they actually do save lives. I personally wouldn't buy a car now without at least two airbags ( I know about TVR thats another discussion). I'd rarther not meet my maker with the Momo logo inscribed on my forehead, but thats me, what do I know !!!!
edited because TVR doesn't count in this discussion
>>> Edited by Phil Dicky on Saturday 29th March 12:22
I thought air bags were just the dumb bloke seatbelt. ie you don't actually need airbags if you're wearing seatbelts. Certainly a friend used to design the things and he used to say they were virtually redundant for the UK market. I wouldn't choose/reject a car on the basis of air bag or not. A car is dangerous whether or not you get cushions, the drive and feel of a car is far far more important.
Had a nasty crash a couple of years back in a Mk2 MR2. Most definitely had a seatbelt on, correct seating position etc, and the head shaped dint in the steering wheel definitely said to me that an airbag would have significantly lessened the pain, and saved many hours in hospital.
Your body is pretty flexible, as are the seatbelts. Airbags are definitley not redundant in the UK.
Your body is pretty flexible, as are the seatbelts. Airbags are definitley not redundant in the UK.
I think, and corect me if I'm wrong, but don't seat belts prevent you from making contact with the windscreen. From my days with the Police it was one thing we used to inspect at accidents, ie head injuires + cracked windsreen = no seat belt.
The airbags are there to prevent internal injuries from the steering wheel/ column. Its also why Audi promoted their retracting steering column thing (pro con ten I think).
The airbags are there to prevent internal injuries from the steering wheel/ column. Its also why Audi promoted their retracting steering column thing (pro con ten I think).
If you want to be really safe (except for at junctions) get harnesses. Being firmly bolted into the seat is why racing drivers survive high speed impacts.
The junction issue is a problem though
Although you can get quick release shoulder straps to loosen at tricky junctions. I do see people using harnesses and having them loose, which is plain silly and dangerous
>> Edited by DanH on Saturday 29th March 13:53
Alan420 said: Nah, uz Max Ladz Is Wikid Driverz. We darnt crash eva! Safe aint for uz! Gotta luk 'ard so ya get da birdz!
Init yeah coz my 1.2 Nova iz da baddest car and could beat anyfink eva!!!
Did I miss a large portion of life or havent I matured in the right way?! I am now 23 and still havent felt the urge to buy and old sh!tty car and put the most rediculous looking spoiler on it!!
Whilst I agree Phil. I think its only fair to point out that the airbag was invented for the American market where the seatbelt is not compulsory and thick people didn't wear them (natural selection IMHO). Whilst they do help to prevent injury in a car with seatbelts fitted my friend pointed out that the seat belt was a far more important safety feature than the airbag and that such items as retractable steering wheels were far far better than an explosion in your face.
My main point was that I wouldn't NOT buy a car because it didn't have an air bag.
I personally am not chuffed with having one in the mini as I feel it may actually do more harm than good. The nature of the mini is the stearing wheel is close to you already and there have been several incidences of damage caused by airbags and people being too close to the wheel.
If people are that bothered about safety then as has been suggested fit harnesses. I'm of the "metal spike" club and worry that a lot of these safety devices actually help to stop the main safety feature that of safe driving. ie Volvo Drivers Syndrome
>> Edited by smeagol on Saturday 29th March 14:40
My main point was that I wouldn't NOT buy a car because it didn't have an air bag.
I personally am not chuffed with having one in the mini as I feel it may actually do more harm than good. The nature of the mini is the stearing wheel is close to you already and there have been several incidences of damage caused by airbags and people being too close to the wheel.
If people are that bothered about safety then as has been suggested fit harnesses. I'm of the "metal spike" club and worry that a lot of these safety devices actually help to stop the main safety feature that of safe driving. ie Volvo Drivers Syndrome
>> Edited by smeagol on Saturday 29th March 14:40
Don't be to quick to knock Volvo's, If you knew how much effort is put into making their cars "safe" you may not be so quick to dismiss them. Volvo have safty standards for all their interior componats that most other manufactures would consider overkill. for example the speaker grills in the doors have restrictions on the hole size and desity so they dont burn to fast. the radius of EVERY switch or edge that might come into contact with your head is at least 3mm (you try to design a flush fit switch with 3 mm rads, not easy!!) in fact you'd have to be trying pretty hard to kill yourself in volvo these days. The trouble with volvos is that you only find out how where all your hard cash went in the car when you stuff it into something hard!
Yes seatbelts are a vital part of a car safety system, becouse the airbags etc are designed to work with them. I'd wear a seatbelt even if it was not law, why? go look for a crash test dummys head, after a crash with no seat belt on, if you can find it you'll know why.
smeagol i think you right about your mini, sitting to close to airbags is definatly a bad idea!! my wife used to be one of those girls who sat really close to the wheel in the belief that it helped her steer better till i described to her what happens even in a low speed impact 
!!
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Saturday 29th March 15:41
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Saturday 29th March 15:42
edited again becouse i cant belive i defended volvos on here!!!
:youaintseenmeright:
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Saturday 29th March 15:44
Yes seatbelts are a vital part of a car safety system, becouse the airbags etc are designed to work with them. I'd wear a seatbelt even if it was not law, why? go look for a crash test dummys head, after a crash with no seat belt on, if you can find it you'll know why.
smeagol i think you right about your mini, sitting to close to airbags is definatly a bad idea!! my wife used to be one of those girls who sat really close to the wheel in the belief that it helped her steer better
till i described to her what happens even in a low speed impact !! >> Edited by prelude4ws on Saturday 29th March 15:41
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Saturday 29th March 15:42
edited again becouse i cant belive i defended volvos on here!!!
:youaintseenmeright:
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Saturday 29th March 15:44
prelude4ws said: in fact you'd have to be trying pretty hard to kill yourself in volvo these days.
I think that was smeagol's point, yes they are safe, but this gives a dangerous confidence and can do more harm then good, put a spike in the center of the steering wheel and watch everyone drive very carefully, put a fcuk off airbag there and they take greater risks and drive more dangerously.
>> Edited by rpguk on Saturday 29th March 15:49
ehhh Prelude I wasn't slagging Volvos The V70 in particular is a damm fine car. I was talking about Volvo Drivers Syndrome. That of making it feel that you are safer than you actually are and consequently driving poorer. (SUVs are having this effect a lot with numpty mums). I'm for safety features in a car that protect drivers without their knowledge, and legislation which is not nanny state.
I'm not for "you can drive how you like cos it won't matter to you" I've been cut up too many times by tw@ts that believe its okay to do so 'cos they are safe. Hence the iron spike method.
One thing Volvo should be congratulated for is making safety a sellable thing. Certainly I've sat in 50s cars and wondered WTF were the designers thinking!
edited to say thanks Rpguk, you said it far more concisely than I have
>> Edited by smeagol on Saturday 29th March 16:01
I'm not for "you can drive how you like cos it won't matter to you" I've been cut up too many times by tw@ts that believe its okay to do so 'cos they are safe. Hence the iron spike method.
One thing Volvo should be congratulated for is making safety a sellable thing. Certainly I've sat in 50s cars and wondered WTF were the designers thinking!
edited to say thanks Rpguk, you said it far more concisely than I have
>> Edited by smeagol on Saturday 29th March 16:01
rpguk said:
prelude4ws said: in fact you'd have to be trying pretty hard to kill yourself in volvo these days.
I think that was smeagol's point, yes they are safe, but this gives a dangerous confidence and can do more harm then good, put a spike in the center of the steering wheel and watch everyone drive very carefully, put a fcuk off airbag there and they take greater risks and drive more dangerously.
>> Edited by rpguk on Saturday 29th March 15:49
opps, bad day at work, went off on a ramble!! i agree it does instill a false sense of security (dont ever drive in sweden, they all drive Volvo's.....) trouble with metal spikes is that they are not "maureen" proof. you can bet your bits that she would crash into you anyway. the answer as always comes down to better training. i drive volvos a lot, and my driving is no different (except when its a company hack as they deserve to be thrashed
) why? i try to think about what i am doing, and i make a concious effort to improve my driving all the time. edited to say: i should really learn to type faster!! having a bit of a foot-mouth interface day.
>> Edited by prelude4ws on Saturday 29th March 16:05
Certainly I've sat in 50s cars and wondered WTF were the designers thinking!
go sniff a magic marker, then you will know why!!
actually i'd like to know what markers they were using to draw with. i am convinced they were far more toxic than the namby pamby "safe" ones i get to use now.
mind you, more and more is done on a computer now, not even nearly toxic.
go sniff a magic marker, then you will know why!!
NOW I know Know what you mean about "maureen proof" and wholeheartedly agree about training. Tricky problem
Perhaps an adjustable spike which moves further away the more training you have? Maureens' would have to be adjusted to up her left nostril Interestingly I was discussing Airbags & seatbelts with a director from Volvo thurday evening :
3 point lap & diagonal belt (Patented by Volvo - so he said) - do work in saving injury and life.
Front airbags have only been shown to help if you're NOT wearing a belt. People have suffered injury and some have even died as the result of the airbag. There has never been a proven case where one has helped prevent injury where a working 3 point belt was worn.
Common airbag injury - broken nose - right arm across to left of wheel (not 10to2 )
So another great reason for owning a TVR !
3 point lap & diagonal belt (Patented by Volvo - so he said) - do work in saving injury and life.
Front airbags have only been shown to help if you're NOT wearing a belt. People have suffered injury and some have even died as the result of the airbag. There has never been a proven case where one has helped prevent injury where a working 3 point belt was worn.
Common airbag injury - broken nose - right arm across to left of wheel (not 10to2 )
So another great reason for owning a TVR !
Oh look: yet again it's the 'let's save everyone from themselves' argument.
I have an airbag in my company van: I'm going to insist the next van DOESN'T. One (piffling) reason is that I drive tens of thousands of miles a year: often for 5 hours without a break (OK my choice). So to get comfortable I do things like putting my hands through the wheel spokes. What's going to happen to my wrists if someone rams me and the airbag goes off?
Besides that, I think the same about seatbelts. You drive (especially fast) without one and it makes you think twice about doing something bloody stupid. Try it the next time you do a trackday.
If you don't want to risk an accident (sorry, incident), DON'T BLOODY DRIVE. Hey, maybe someone should suggest to the Gov't that they could launch a Driving Kills campaign...
Ian
I have an airbag in my company van: I'm going to insist the next van DOESN'T. One (piffling) reason is that I drive tens of thousands of miles a year: often for 5 hours without a break (OK my choice). So to get comfortable I do things like putting my hands through the wheel spokes. What's going to happen to my wrists if someone rams me and the airbag goes off?
Besides that, I think the same about seatbelts. You drive (especially fast) without one and it makes you think twice about doing something bloody stupid. Try it the next time you do a trackday.
If you don't want to risk an accident (sorry, incident), DON'T BLOODY DRIVE. Hey, maybe someone should suggest to the Gov't that they could launch a Driving Kills campaign...
Ian
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