RE: Safety messages 'pointless': report
RE: Safety messages 'pointless': report
Wednesday 20th December 2006

Safety messages 'pointless': report

Research finds drivers in touch with reality


Real-world rules not their rules
Real-world rules not their rules
A survey of young drivers published today by Department for Transport finds that Government messages about safe driving are a big turn-off and are not even seen as sensible, let alone credible.

The report: "The good, the bad and the talented - young drivers perspectives" by consultants SHM (see link below) found:

"A small number of participants included being law-abiding in their definitions of good driving, but this was disputed by other participants. The majority perspective was that the laws and rules of driving were things to be followed not for their own sake, but only:

  • if they were judged to be genuinely relevant to the safety of driving as a physical activity
  • if they coincided with what were believed to be the norms of driving as a social activity
  • in order to avoid penalties."

However, it is striking that when participants talked about the laws and rules of driving, they tended to focus on the ones they found objectionable. Laws and rules are only noticed when they are seen to be ‘stupid’ or ‘pointless’. One of the reasons why the formal laws and rules of driving were perceived by some to be distant from the realities of driving was that laws or rules thought to be sensible and relevant (like stopping at a red light) were seen as common sense or part of the ‘unwritten rules’ of driving.

Participants were sceptical about whether the process of learning for and passing the test contributed to good driving, for a number of reasons.

  • The kind of driving required in the test is believed to be very different from ‘real driving’.
  • The learning experience leading up to the test is not believed to cover enough real situations with motorway driving being a particular concern.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign said: "The message from young drivers to the Department for Transport could not be clearer. They are saying:

  • they do not want to be treated like idiots or incompetents
  • the rules do not define 'real driving'"

"The Department for Transport (DfT) is failing to engage with young drivers, and as such is comprehensively failing to assist them on the path to becoming safe and experienced. DfT initiatives such as speed cameras are resulting in contempt for official road safety messages.

"Department for Transport must re-align its policies in order to gain the trust of our drivers in general and young drivers in particular. Everyone knows that road safety is about so much more than rules compliance -- our drivers need believable messages about the skills, the attitudes and the responsibilities that underpin road safety in the real world."

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odyssey2200

Original Poster:

18,650 posts

232 months

Wednesday 20th December 2006
quotequote all
Well I wonder how much this startlingly obvious report cost us?


bob1179

14,137 posts

232 months

Wednesday 20th December 2006
quotequote all
odyssey2200 said:
Well I wonder how much this startlingly obvious report cost us?




Thats why they are bringing in road charging don't you know? They have to pay for these things somehow.

odyssey2200

Original Poster:

18,650 posts

232 months

Wednesday 20th December 2006
quotequote all
Alas you are right!

Peter Ward

2,097 posts

279 months

Wednesday 20th December 2006
quotequote all
Safespeed said:
"Department for Transport must re-align its policies in order to gain the trust of our drivers in general and young drivers in particular. Everyone knows that road safety is about so much more than rules compliance -- our drivers need believable messages about the skills, the attitudes and the responsibilities that underpin road safety in the real world."

Nice try, Paul. You talk perfect sense. However...
- DfT will not realign its policies. It will continue to enforce the existing ones increasingly harshly
- Not "everyone knows" that road safety is about driving ability and not numbers -- many people have been brainwashed already.

Will a revolution ever come? Perhaps, but not for a while yet. While Brunstrom can continue to spout Arrive Alive as a success story there will be enough people to support cameras and ever-lower speed limits. It's so convenient because it fits with the latest "sacrifice everything to be green" mood as well, so it's getting reinforcement from a much wider context.

johnsam

38 posts

272 months

Wednesday 20th December 2006
quotequote all
Did it really take forty eight pages to state the bleeding obvious? Oh, I just realised something; it's so much cheaper than improving our roads!

_Al_

5,618 posts

281 months

Thursday 21st December 2006
quotequote all
That report tells us nothing except that people aren't as good as they think they are.

The amount of "I give myself 9/10 as a talented driver even though I crashed into a statue while pi55ed" is terrifying!


That report screams "make them take a personality based ability test".

A simple 4-way assessment criteria would do it;

1)Confident/capable
2)Unconfident/capable
3)Unconfident/uncapable
4)Confident/incapable


It doesn't take a genius to figure out what to do with each type of person!

negative creep

25,794 posts

250 months

Thursday 21st December 2006
quotequote all
the test doesn't cover you for the real world whatsoever. It assumes you will spend your entire dirving life postterning along at 30mph and never ever break a speed limit. Theres nothing beyond the emergency stop (which any idiot can do), no skid control, explanation of understter/oversteer, swevering to avoid hazards, dealing with other's bad driving and so on

niffty951

2,380 posts

251 months

Thursday 21st December 2006
quotequote all
negative creep said:
the test doesn't cover you for the real world whatsoever. It assumes you will spend your entire dirving life postterning along at 30mph and never ever break a speed limit. Theres nothing beyond the emergency stop (which any idiot can do), no skid control, explanation of understter/oversteer, swevering to avoid hazards, dealing with other's bad driving and so on


Most sensible thing I've heard yet. Say it straight nobody in the world sticks to all speed limits even the most cautious of elderly nuns does not always travel as slowly as proscribed by the law or studied during your test!

Sensible idea would be to start spending government money on organising training days for young and learner drivers at more affordable prices (like £25 per day rather than £250 per day) accessible at to all at local tracks and airfields. Then get the examiners to grade the ability of the drivers at skid control etc with a minimum grade required as part of the test before you are given a licence when you will inevitably encounter a skid, probably not at a good moment and definitely without any instruction!

If everyone was more aware of the physical limits of their car in braking, swerving, cornering etc it would have prevented all of the accidents I have seen in my time on the road! This would also stop dangerous people buying 4x4's and driving them as fast as saloon cars which weigh half as much and have a centre of gravity 2feet lower! Never mind that they 'usually' have half the ability to stop!

mikes3

235 posts

287 months

Thursday 21st December 2006
quotequote all
Already can improve skills by using the IAM regional groups. Did this a few years back, the driving test got me my licence, the IAM made me a good/safe/aware driver.

However as they don't tow the current speed is bad/motorist is satan biase of St Tony the brainwashed and his merry band of venomous trolls this low cost, pragmatic solution, which wouldn't cost billions to introduce is largely ignored!

RDE

5,028 posts

237 months

Thursday 28th December 2006
quotequote all
I thought 'safe driving messages' was refering to the motorway signs I saw yesterday that said "fog!", which I peered though the fog to see. Thanks for the update! I will now adjust my driving style accordingly. On the one hand I hate being treated like an idiot, but on the other hand, I have seen a startling number of idiots in cars. The solution is simple; aptitude testing and harder exams for learners. But then the rest would have to use public transport... oh dear.

pjskel

10,842 posts

250 months

Friday 29th December 2006
quotequote all
negative creep said:
the test doesn't cover you for the real world whatsoever. It assumes you will spend your entire dirving life postterning along at 30mph and never ever break a speed limit. Theres nothing beyond the emergency stop (which any idiot can do), no skid control, explanation of understter/oversteer, swevering to avoid hazards, dealing with other's bad driving and so on


The test is not designed to teach you, it's there to examine how well you've absorbed and can demonstrate what the driving instructor has taught you.
They are the ones who should be making sure they've taught you everything required, fully, (and more for your own benefit) and that you're up to a high enough standard/competency before suggesting you're ready for examination.
It would be expected that the instructor points out other's wrong-doings and instils this into the student.

I disagree with the constant backsniping of "no motorway driving prior to passing" since anyone competent enough to drive a route involving everything the test does, should also be capable of driving in pretty much a straight line, and have sufficient experience by then of how to use one's mirrors and indicators.
Any good instructor will demonstrate the on-off procedures on a motorway a number of times for the student to appreciate what they'll be expected to do when they've passed and take to one solo.

Then again, as someone from NI, with a 12 month R plates period (restricted to 45 mph max.) this aspect of driving is maybe not as bad as the mainland letting passed L drivers drive at 70mph straight away.

This presumes nothing's changed since quite some time ago, when I was made aware there was a difference between the mainland and NI.



Edited by pjskel on Monday 1st January 22:40

odyssey2200

Original Poster:

18,650 posts

232 months

Monday 1st January 2007
quotequote all
RDE said:
I thought 'safe driving messages' was refering to the motorway signs I saw yesterday that said "fog!", which I peered though the fog to see. Thanks for the update! I will now adjust my driving style accordingly. On the one hand I hate being treated like an idiot, but on the other hand, I have seen a startling number of idiots in cars. The solution is simple; aptitude testing and harder exams for learners. But then the rest would have to use public transport... oh dear.


Interesting some complete T055ers couldn't read the signs, in fact they obviously couldn't see the fog.
If they could see the fog I feel sure they would have turned some lights on, on their

Silver Audi estate
Renault Scenic
etc