Talivan wrecks 40-year clean driving record
Discussion
Phoned my mum for Mother's Day earlier today (hope you all remembered 
), and she was telling me that my dad's about to get his first conviction in over 40 years of driving. On his birthday earlier this month, the two of them decided to go for a day out, and make an early start of it.
So it was 7.30am on a Sunday morning, and they were driving along a deserted road that leads from the outskirts of town to the motorway, when he got caught by a Talivan that was hiding in a layby.
Sure enough, the NIP arrived the other day: 35mph in a 30 zone. Now I wouldn't normally condone speeding in a 30 zone, but early on a Sunday morning, in perfect weather conditions, on an empty, non-residential stretch of road that has nothing but a supermarket on one side and a small retail park on the other, both set well back from the road and closed at that time anyway??
And it's hard to imagine a safer driver than my old man - 59 years old, in excellent health, has been driving for over 40 years without any previous convictions or accidents (including many years as a high-mileage sales rep), and drives an Escort diesel, hardly the fastest of cars...
You've got to wonder where the lies and extortion of the "speed kills" campaign are leading us, haven't you? Is it really so important to police forces and the Govt to screw a few more quid in tax out of motorists that they're prepared to alienate perfectly decent people in the process? How long before some aggrieved motorist goes too far and we read about the first Talivan crew being seriously assaulted, or worse??
Better stop now - just thinking about it is doing my blood pressure no good at all...
), and she was telling me that my dad's about to get his first conviction in over 40 years of driving. On his birthday earlier this month, the two of them decided to go for a day out, and make an early start of it. So it was 7.30am on a Sunday morning, and they were driving along a deserted road that leads from the outskirts of town to the motorway, when he got caught by a Talivan that was hiding in a layby.
Sure enough, the NIP arrived the other day: 35mph in a 30 zone. Now I wouldn't normally condone speeding in a 30 zone, but early on a Sunday morning, in perfect weather conditions, on an empty, non-residential stretch of road that has nothing but a supermarket on one side and a small retail park on the other, both set well back from the road and closed at that time anyway??
And it's hard to imagine a safer driver than my old man - 59 years old, in excellent health, has been driving for over 40 years without any previous convictions or accidents (including many years as a high-mileage sales rep), and drives an Escort diesel, hardly the fastest of cars...
You've got to wonder where the lies and extortion of the "speed kills" campaign are leading us, haven't you? Is it really so important to police forces and the Govt to screw a few more quid in tax out of motorists that they're prepared to alienate perfectly decent people in the process? How long before some aggrieved motorist goes too far and we read about the first Talivan crew being seriously assaulted, or worse??
Better stop now - just thinking about it is doing my blood pressure no good at all...
Thats shocking! I feel for you and your dad.
Sure, this is the best way to alienate people, having some weasely sneaks hiding in a van trying to catch people along a safe bit of road.
What sad people they must be, having nothing better to do that sit in that van. Just console yourself with the thought that they must be pretty boring people, with all the more interesting jobs that they could be doing, they choose to do that.
Sure, this is the best way to alienate people, having some weasely sneaks hiding in a van trying to catch people along a safe bit of road.
What sad people they must be, having nothing better to do that sit in that van. Just console yourself with the thought that they must be pretty boring people, with all the more interesting jobs that they could be doing, they choose to do that.
No. Your Dad wrecked his 40 year clean driving licence by not adhering to the limit. If he had been driving at under 30 mph he would still have an unblemished record.
It was not the fault of the Talivan he lost this record but his own for not being vigilant, 30mph means you do not exceed 30mph without risk of penalty. Even on a road where there are no residential premises and only a supermarket. The limit was still 30 mph.
I dont know your dad or you for that matter so I cannot make any comments about whether he has been lucky over the last 40 years or unlucky just this once.
I do however sympathise with his position and your feelings.
It was not the fault of the Talivan he lost this record but his own for not being vigilant, 30mph means you do not exceed 30mph without risk of penalty. Even on a road where there are no residential premises and only a supermarket. The limit was still 30 mph.
I dont know your dad or you for that matter so I cannot make any comments about whether he has been lucky over the last 40 years or unlucky just this once.
I do however sympathise with his position and your feelings.
My biggest worry about al of this is that I get the feeling that this sort of activity make me feel that Traffic policing has been subcontracted,a little like subcontracting traffic wardens, who are then given targets that they have to meet in order to keep their jobs.
Its then easy to target motorists to hit artifical targets that are in no way linked to safety
I feel sorry for your dad, the difference between 30 and 35 is probably about another 50grams of pressure on the pedal
Its then easy to target motorists to hit artifical targets that are in no way linked to safety
I feel sorry for your dad, the difference between 30 and 35 is probably about another 50grams of pressure on the pedal
skittle said: My biggest worry about al of this is that I get the feeling that this sort of activity make me feel that Traffic policing has been subcontracted,a little like subcontracting traffic wardens, who are then given targets that they have to meet in order to keep their jobs.
It has. To relieve the strain on Police patrol strength. Like many other rolls that the Police used to conduct, they are slowly being civilianised. There is a thrust at the present to replace custody unit jailers from Police officers to civilians supplied by 'Reliance Security' so that those officers can be re-deployed on patrol duties.
Its then easy to target motorists to hit artifical targets that are in no way linked to safety
Look at any Govt type enforcement. They go for the easy target that shows they are achieving them. Look at the NHS and worst of all the CSA who only pursue those cases that are simple to enforce.
I feel sorry for your dad, the difference between 30 and 35 is probably about another 50grams of pressure on the pedal
I feel sorry for him and many others in the same circumstances, but these situations are in everyones individual control. You do not have to be persecuted by speed enforcement if you are vigilant and comply with limits where you are most likely to be caught.
madcop said:
skittle said: My biggest worry about al of this is that I get the feeling that this sort of activity make me feel that Traffic policing has been subcontracted,a little like subcontracting traffic wardens, who are then given targets that they have to meet in order to keep their jobs.
It has. To relieve the strain on Police patrol strength. Like many other rolls that the Police used to conduct, they are slowly being civilianised. There is a thrust at the present to replace custody unit jailers from Police officers to civilians supplied by 'Reliance Security' so that those officers can be re-deployed on patrol duties.
Its then easy to target motorists to hit artifical targets that are in no way linked to safety
Look at any Govt type enforcement. They go for the easy target that shows they are achieving them. Look at the NHS and worst of all the CSA who only pursue those cases that are simple to enforce.
I feel sorry for your dad, the difference between 30 and 35 is probably about another 50grams of pressure on the pedal
I feel sorry for him and many others in the same circumstances, but these situations are in everyones individual control. You do not have to be persecuted by speed enforcement if you are vigilant and comply with limits where you are most likely to be caught.
'Reliance Security' are a FUcKING joke m8.
I used to be in the industry, thank got I never had the displesure Of working for em.
I got payed a lot beter. Ill tell you one thing there will a hell of a lot of **** up`s if there doring it.
These scumbags dont "adhere" to their own friggin guidelines Madcop.
They use unmarked vehicles, they hide behind other cars, bushes etc....how does that make a deserted stretch of highway safer?
35 in a 30 zone...ye gods...he was going like mad max...not.
Dont you think they are making your job harder, less tolerable? Dont you reckon that the wrath of the public is being directed towards the police, cos of these illiterate layabouts want an easy job?
Sorry Madcop, im way out of sync with you on this one.
35 in a 30 does not deserve a fine, and screw the "limits".
They use unmarked vehicles, they hide behind other cars, bushes etc....how does that make a deserted stretch of highway safer?
35 in a 30 zone...ye gods...he was going like mad max...not.
Dont you think they are making your job harder, less tolerable? Dont you reckon that the wrath of the public is being directed towards the police, cos of these illiterate layabouts want an easy job?
Sorry Madcop, im way out of sync with you on this one.
35 in a 30 does not deserve a fine, and screw the "limits".
Have to agree with DeltaF on this one.
If a traffic officer (rather than a talivan) was on site, I sincerely doubt whether they'd have even stopped the car in question, given the speed and circumstances. At the very worst it would have been a warning.
Talivan = Cash. Simple equation. Safety didn't even enter into the picture.
If a traffic officer (rather than a talivan) was on site, I sincerely doubt whether they'd have even stopped the car in question, given the speed and circumstances. At the very worst it would have been a warning.
Talivan = Cash. Simple equation. Safety didn't even enter into the picture.
This is getting ridiculous now! I am lucky and I know it (though I have started to slow down now so I guess in one way it is working). But why oh why is the current government looking to alienate and criminalise the population? Is it in the publics interest to have a 59 year old (think that is was you said) criminalised and prosecuted? I dont think so, do you?
What is the current running rate? 1M a year and increasing - thats the number of people that get speeding tickets. Next year it will be 2M, then 4M etc... until WE ALL HAVE CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS! Where is the public interest there? There isnt one. Meanwhile we are burgled, have our cars nicked, get mugged for our mobile phones and suprise suprise the death rate on our roads doesnt go down..... What is the sense in that?
I used to think that there was a certain sense to the use of speed cameras - you know outside schools etc. However, I now think that they should all be eliminated - NOW (now agree with Carzee on this issue). I see more and more appearing now, and some in the daftest of locations (see my post a week or so about the A14 in Cambridge - this one in particular is stunning piece of stupidity! Everyone knows that junction snarls up in the morning - I mean STATIONARY... so, I know, lets put a speed camera on it - a SPECS one too.... if you can get an average speed of over 20MPH you are doing very well!!!). I am sick of seeing speed cameras on straight pieces of road. I am sick of seeing Northamptonshire Talivans by the side of the A14, or Oxford ones trying to pick people coming off the M40...
Its a joke and serves NO benefit to the public.
What I want is a police force which is interested in keeping things safe - like stopping the moron with the Fezza 360 Modena who likes doing 90+ up and down my road (its a 40 by the way). That MORON needs to be stopped and spoken to before he really kills someone. Are the police interested? No, not on your nelly - spoke to them at the local pold station - got a "sorry sir, we cant do anything about that. Its just your word against his". Well stuff you and shove it where the sun dont shine! My little boy has twice done a runner (before anyone says anything, if you have kids you know what happens, if you dont, ask you parents about it - everyone does it!). Imagine a little boy and a 40MPH car - lots of braking distance and a high probability of survial. 90+ in a Ferrari - not a suffing chance and more than likely to take out a couple of walls and a car or two....
So, rant coming to an end - prosecute someone for doing 35 in a 30 zone? Not worth it - get the monkeys that do 90 in a 40 zone - they are the danger to society and people.... STOP PICKING ON THE EVERYDAY MOTORIST AND GET THE REAL IDIOTS!
Cheers,
Paul
P.s. going for a ciggie now to calm down...
What is the current running rate? 1M a year and increasing - thats the number of people that get speeding tickets. Next year it will be 2M, then 4M etc... until WE ALL HAVE CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS! Where is the public interest there? There isnt one. Meanwhile we are burgled, have our cars nicked, get mugged for our mobile phones and suprise suprise the death rate on our roads doesnt go down..... What is the sense in that?
I used to think that there was a certain sense to the use of speed cameras - you know outside schools etc. However, I now think that they should all be eliminated - NOW (now agree with Carzee on this issue). I see more and more appearing now, and some in the daftest of locations (see my post a week or so about the A14 in Cambridge - this one in particular is stunning piece of stupidity! Everyone knows that junction snarls up in the morning - I mean STATIONARY... so, I know, lets put a speed camera on it - a SPECS one too.... if you can get an average speed of over 20MPH you are doing very well!!!). I am sick of seeing speed cameras on straight pieces of road. I am sick of seeing Northamptonshire Talivans by the side of the A14, or Oxford ones trying to pick people coming off the M40...
Its a joke and serves NO benefit to the public.
What I want is a police force which is interested in keeping things safe - like stopping the moron with the Fezza 360 Modena who likes doing 90+ up and down my road (its a 40 by the way). That MORON needs to be stopped and spoken to before he really kills someone. Are the police interested? No, not on your nelly - spoke to them at the local pold station - got a "sorry sir, we cant do anything about that. Its just your word against his". Well stuff you and shove it where the sun dont shine! My little boy has twice done a runner (before anyone says anything, if you have kids you know what happens, if you dont, ask you parents about it - everyone does it!). Imagine a little boy and a 40MPH car - lots of braking distance and a high probability of survial. 90+ in a Ferrari - not a suffing chance and more than likely to take out a couple of walls and a car or two....
So, rant coming to an end - prosecute someone for doing 35 in a 30 zone? Not worth it - get the monkeys that do 90 in a 40 zone - they are the danger to society and people.... STOP PICKING ON THE EVERYDAY MOTORIST AND GET THE REAL IDIOTS!
Cheers,
Paul
P.s. going for a ciggie now to calm down...
Totally agree ......
Speeding may have been an "absolute offence" once, but officers discretion was a way to keep people mobile and rein back the out and out idiots.
Now its a complete free-for all, with even minor indiscretions getting the full-force enforcement. This is a BAD THING, as it leads to complete disrespect for the law, 35 in a 30 on a sunny moring with no-one else around, oh come on Mad, even you can't say that thats a fair cop??!?!
Lossfer words!
Speeding may have been an "absolute offence" once, but officers discretion was a way to keep people mobile and rein back the out and out idiots.
Now its a complete free-for all, with even minor indiscretions getting the full-force enforcement. This is a BAD THING, as it leads to complete disrespect for the law, 35 in a 30 on a sunny moring with no-one else around, oh come on Mad, even you can't say that thats a fair cop??!?!
Lossfer words!
madcop said: No. Your Dad wrecked his 40 year clean driving licence by not adhering to the limit. If he had been driving at under 30 mph he would still have an unblemished record.
It was not the fault of the Talivan he lost this record but his own for not being vigilant, 30mph means you do not exceed 30mph without risk of penalty. Even on a road where there are no residential premises and only a supermarket. The limit was still 30 mph.
I dont know your dad or you for that matter so I cannot make any comments about whether he has been lucky over the last 40 years or unlucky just this once.
I do however sympathise with his position and your feelings.
You are correct to say that he lost his clean licence andit is his fault for not noticing the Talivan, and for exceeding the speed limit.
However it is instances like this that car drivers object to. Where the van is possibly hidden, the road is clear, no pedestrians are around etc, and only a relatively minor infringement on the speed limit.
One assumes that had the Talivan actually been a policeman with a speed gun he would have either taken no action, or just given a verbal lecture. This action would mean the driver would have been reminded to check his speed and educated. Instead of which he is mightily fed up. If stopped by a real live policeman at least one has the opportunity of pleading ones case, and not getting a penalty.
It is the fact that Talivans and Cameras have no discretion that so annoys the average motorist, and continued action will lead to the motorist having even less faith in the police.
Incidentially I was followed on my cross country journey to work by a police car. A couple of years ago the limit on Ashdown Forest was reduced to 40mph, so I religously stuck to the limit, and due to the nature of the road, and oncoming traffic he was unable to pass (no lights etc showing). He followed me certainly not leaving sufficient gap, all I could see in my rear view mirrors was the word "Police" on the bonnet.
He finally overtook me 10 miles later as we were about to leave a 30mph limit, and he was certainly exceeding the speed limit. However didn't get vary far because as soon as he caught up with the next person in front they stuck religously to the speed limit to. So he follwed them right up their bumper too.
So its nice to know the police don't like the limits either!
What a load of shite.
This is the exact treatment that pi$$es your everyday motorists right off. The police hide on stretches of road that are empty, quiet, unresidential etc etc and impose very low tolerences for prosecution. I know I dont know the exact details of where this incident occured but it is all becoming just a little too common for my liking.
Why do you never see traps set up outside a school / university etc at 3pm in the afternoon when 35 would be TOO fast?
We all know the answer to that.
Edited to say; just re-read my post and just want to confirm I am not aiming this post as an attack on what madcop said! Peace
>> Edited by robp on Monday 31st March 12:17
This is the exact treatment that pi$$es your everyday motorists right off. The police hide on stretches of road that are empty, quiet, unresidential etc etc and impose very low tolerences for prosecution. I know I dont know the exact details of where this incident occured but it is all becoming just a little too common for my liking.
Why do you never see traps set up outside a school / university etc at 3pm in the afternoon when 35 would be TOO fast?
We all know the answer to that.
Edited to say; just re-read my post and just want to confirm I am not aiming this post as an attack on what madcop said! Peace
>> Edited by robp on Monday 31st March 12:17
I agree with all of the above. Madcop, you already know my feelings on this type of offence from the post about a chap caught by a GATSO at 34mph in a 30mph zone. Yes, it was an offence and the driver was caught. But under these circumstances it strikes me that the 'Safety Partnership' crew were being harsh. This type of strict 'zero tolerance' enforcement will do little to reduce accident rates - rather just alienate everyone who drives and can sympathise with this particular gentlemen. I'm sure that Police would have exercised more discretion.
I don't know the road but from the descrption it sounds like a 40mph limit in the area could be quite acceptable?
I don't know the road but from the descrption it sounds like a 40mph limit in the area could be quite acceptable?
Its another example of a profit opportunity.
The law as it stands MUST be wrong. It has to be.
There are so few drivers adhereing to the limits, that it proves that even with them hounding and persecuting motorists for every penny, points left right and center, and still motorists dont adhere.
What does that tell a "normal" person about the situation?
Either ALL the motorists are wrong, or the law is wrong.
It isnt the motorists, that i can tell you.
Its a law for the sake of one, not because it actually means a dam, but just gives a license to TAKE MONEY from people.
I am seriously thinking about direct action on these bastards. All my life ive been within the law, never been arrested, nicked for speeding ,nothing.
But these ****ers are determined to make us all into one.
FLEECING NOT POLICING.
So be it.
The law as it stands MUST be wrong. It has to be.
There are so few drivers adhereing to the limits, that it proves that even with them hounding and persecuting motorists for every penny, points left right and center, and still motorists dont adhere.
What does that tell a "normal" person about the situation?
Either ALL the motorists are wrong, or the law is wrong.
It isnt the motorists, that i can tell you.
Its a law for the sake of one, not because it actually means a dam, but just gives a license to TAKE MONEY from people.
I am seriously thinking about direct action on these bastards. All my life ive been within the law, never been arrested, nicked for speeding ,nothing.
But these ****ers are determined to make us all into one.
FLEECING NOT POLICING.
So be it.
I agree that this whole thing is getting horribly out of hand. I cannot think of any other issue that has created as much bad feeling and resentment amongst quite ordinary law abiding people.
I too live in a village where idiots regularly charge through at well above the 30 limit. There is a School there placed just after a blind curve in the road and yet people still speed through. We never see any police there. Certainly no speed cameras or Talivans. Again, try to talk to the police about this and they just shrug their shoulders.
In my view the police are amongst the worst offenders. They routinely drive over the speed limit and seem to think that they are above the law. They give you all this bollocks about "Advanced Driver Training" and yet they manage to kill far too many people each year on our roads whilst responding to emergency calls or chasing joy riders around. The recent documentary on TV included plenty of evidence of total incompetence. The clown who tried overking the HGV on the approach to a roundabout without his 'blues and twos' on should have been sent on driver retraining and taken off active driving duty altogether given his attitude, lack of skill and dreadful judgement.
I would very much like to see all police cars fitted with GPS/data logging that identified any officer breaking the speed limit without having their blue lights and siren on and automatically issued a NIP to the offending officer.
I drive about 35000 miles a year and get to see plenty of dreadful driving which seems to be ignored by the police. How often do you see totally unrestrained children in the back of cars? How often do you see people driving who clearly should not be on the raod as they are a complete danger to themselves and everyone else? Providing these idiots keep under the speed limits they must be safe - this seems to be the assumption being made by the Government and the police.
Madcop, you have given some great feedback on this forum and along with others I appreciate you taking the time to respond and participate in discussions. However, I have to say that you rather 'black or white' view of the 30/35mph scenario is indicative of an attitude which I am sad to say is hypocritical at best given how the police (and I suspect you too) routinely drive over the speed limit.
>> Edited by abailey on Monday 31st March 11:49
I too live in a village where idiots regularly charge through at well above the 30 limit. There is a School there placed just after a blind curve in the road and yet people still speed through. We never see any police there. Certainly no speed cameras or Talivans. Again, try to talk to the police about this and they just shrug their shoulders.
In my view the police are amongst the worst offenders. They routinely drive over the speed limit and seem to think that they are above the law. They give you all this bollocks about "Advanced Driver Training" and yet they manage to kill far too many people each year on our roads whilst responding to emergency calls or chasing joy riders around. The recent documentary on TV included plenty of evidence of total incompetence. The clown who tried overking the HGV on the approach to a roundabout without his 'blues and twos' on should have been sent on driver retraining and taken off active driving duty altogether given his attitude, lack of skill and dreadful judgement.
I would very much like to see all police cars fitted with GPS/data logging that identified any officer breaking the speed limit without having their blue lights and siren on and automatically issued a NIP to the offending officer.
I drive about 35000 miles a year and get to see plenty of dreadful driving which seems to be ignored by the police. How often do you see totally unrestrained children in the back of cars? How often do you see people driving who clearly should not be on the raod as they are a complete danger to themselves and everyone else? Providing these idiots keep under the speed limits they must be safe - this seems to be the assumption being made by the Government and the police.
Madcop, you have given some great feedback on this forum and along with others I appreciate you taking the time to respond and participate in discussions. However, I have to say that you rather 'black or white' view of the 30/35mph scenario is indicative of an attitude which I am sad to say is hypocritical at best given how the police (and I suspect you too) routinely drive over the speed limit.
>> Edited by abailey on Monday 31st March 11:49
pdv6 said: Hey, don't attack MC for this- he's one of the good guys! I think you'll find that he's done his usual trick of stating the facts, coupled with a personal opinion thereafter...
madcop said:
I do however sympathise with his position and your feelings.
yea i know m8
but some time his postws dont come a cross that way i think.
and peeps take em wroung.
Blimey, what a lot of replies! I'll pass on all your comments to my dad - they might cheer him up a bit.
Madcop, thanks in particular for your responses - considered and informative as ever. I admire your devotion to the letter of the law, but I like to think that, in that situation, you'd have exercised your professional judgement and realised that a quiet word in his ear would have been more constructive than a fine and points. As you can see from some of the other replies on here, heavy-handedness towards minor speeding offences is driving a wedge between the public and the police, which is a great shame. I hardly know anyone who still believes the official line that it's all about safety and nothing to do with
revenue-raising.
Ian.
PS On a lighter note, there's a certain amusement in the fact that the bloke who often sat in my passenger seat during my boy racer days, telling me off for "driving with concrete boots on", now has 3 more points on his licence than I've ever had...think I'll wait till he calms down before taking the p*** though.
Madcop, thanks in particular for your responses - considered and informative as ever. I admire your devotion to the letter of the law, but I like to think that, in that situation, you'd have exercised your professional judgement and realised that a quiet word in his ear would have been more constructive than a fine and points. As you can see from some of the other replies on here, heavy-handedness towards minor speeding offences is driving a wedge between the public and the police, which is a great shame. I hardly know anyone who still believes the official line that it's all about safety and nothing to do with
revenue-raising.
Ian.
PS On a lighter note, there's a certain amusement in the fact that the bloke who often sat in my passenger seat during my boy racer days, telling me off for "driving with concrete boots on", now has 3 more points on his licence than I've ever had...think I'll wait till he calms down before taking the p*** though.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff