New 911 engine - Flat 8
Discussion
It is all rampant speculation at the moment, though I read something in the PCGB magazine a while back that suggested a flat 8. I would certainly think it more likely than a V8 if the 911 were to continue as a 2+2. I can only see a next generation 911 go to a V8 if they make it a straight 2 seater and mid mount it (with the Panamera being pushed to those that need back seats). The only problem with an F8 is that it would likely be exclusive to the 911 and not shared (along with its development/evolution costs) across the rest of the range.
The economic solution would be for a modular family of V engines, V8 for the Panamera, Cayenne and mid engined 911 replacement with V6s for the entry models of the 2 former and whatever replaces the Boxter... Though heretige can be a powerful driver for a company that is financially comfortable...
But who knows...
Porsche is the only mainstream manufacturer to still produce a rear engined car. While that does give certain benefits a big part of why they still make one is marketing reasons - they still make them because people still want to buy them.
They went water-cooled with the 996 for emmissions as I understand it so it seems reasonable to assume they wouldn't change either the layout or location of the engine unless there was an obvious reason to, driven either by market demands or legislation.
What compelling reason could Porsche have for changing from the traditional rear engined flat-6 in a 911?
Porsche might make other models but I'm pretty sure they'll continue to make a rear-engined flat-6 2+2 called the 911 (or Carrera) for as long as there is enough demand for them.
They went water-cooled with the 996 for emmissions as I understand it so it seems reasonable to assume they wouldn't change either the layout or location of the engine unless there was an obvious reason to, driven either by market demands or legislation.
What compelling reason could Porsche have for changing from the traditional rear engined flat-6 in a 911?
Porsche might make other models but I'm pretty sure they'll continue to make a rear-engined flat-6 2+2 called the 911 (or Carrera) for as long as there is enough demand for them.
Leithen said:
Riverside said:
What compelling reason could Porsche have for changing from the traditional rear engined flat-6 in a 911?
Power, and the lack of it. They've been finding it harder and harder to extract more power from the current design.
I could understand a new flat-6 block capable of bigger displacement, but more cylinders isn't an obvious solution to the problem, just a possible one
Riverside said:
Leithen said:
Riverside said:
What compelling reason could Porsche have for changing from the traditional rear engined flat-6 in a 911?
Power, and the lack of it. They've been finding it harder and harder to extract more power from the current design.
I could understand a new flat-6 block capable of bigger displacement, but more cylinders isn't an obvious solution to the problem, just a possible one
Can't remember where I read it, but yes, increasing the number of cylinders is seen as possibly being a more satisfactory solution than going for a new block with larger displacement. Probably down to the fact that they've got as much out of the current block as they can and if they have to design a new one from scratch, eight would give them a lot more flexibility in the next ten+ years...
Leithen said:
Riverside said:
What compelling reason could Porsche have for changing from the traditional rear engined flat-6 in a 911?
Power, and the lack of it. They've been finding it harder and harder to extract more power from the current design.
I didn't think they were having problems with power on the flat 6. 380+bhp on the 3.8 with motor pack isn't it...and then of course there's the exotic gt3 NA engine, currently over 400bhp and still 3.6 litres.
Surely Porsche could stretch to 110bhp per litre on the current flat six, couple this with a capacity increase and the potential is for well over 400bhp.....that's enough in a carrera for atleast 5 years?
Is power really such an issue with 911s? I'd have thought that, for the vast majority of owners, there's already more power than they can use, while for the power-hungry there's a plethora of up-grades and super-911s like the Gemballa, Ruf and 9ff types. For Porsche to make a completely new engine just to increase the power available, at the expense of the 911 ethos that has won them the top production (and hence profit) place in the sports car world would be a big risk. They tried to replace the 911 once before, remember, and much good did it do them!
kent993 said:
Is power really such an issue with 911s? I'd have thought that, for the vast majority of owners, there's already more power than they can use, while for the power-hungry there's a plethora of up-grades and super-911s like the Gemballa, Ruf and 9ff types. For Porsche to make a completely new engine just to increase the power available, at the expense of the 911 ethos that has won them the top production (and hence profit) place in the sports car world would be a big risk. They tried to replace the 911 once before, remember, and much good did it do them!
Exactly. Why replace something that has served you well for over four decades? And will most likely continue to do so. I think in today's day and age where superminis are now the size of what would once have been called a family hatch, tyres are getting bigger (so people drive faster to reach the car's limits) and cars are getting heavier generally, I don't see that an increase in power is what the 911 and motor industry as a whole needs.
Personally, I'd like to see a 911 that takes the car back to its roots, one that sees low weight, smaller (and obiviously more economical) engines and smaller wheels and tyres favoured in place of more power, more grip and more weight.
I'm not saying the 911 is getting worse, it may not be (I have only ever driven one so I'm not qualified to comment) but I think that the new 911 should concentrate on being a car which places the things that matter to petrolheads most above other things.
It's a sad state of affairs in my opinion that even the best driver's cars are getting heavier and more powerful in the quest to be the 'on-paper' king. This, in my experience doesn't translate to road driving as well as people think it does.
Consider it this way... a Lotus Elan Sprint is, on paper at least, thrashed by, let's say, a Lamborghini Countach. On paper...
I think a more focused 911 is the way forward. Start thinking about how to lose weight and increase fun, delicacy, tactility, immediacy and involvement rather than power. Lotus did it with a little car in the mid 1990s, so we know it works.
Fruitcake said:
I think a more focused 911 is the way forward. Start thinking about how to lose weight and increase fun, delicacy, tactility, immediacy and involvement rather than power. Lotus did it with a little car in the mid 1990s, so we know it works.
or buy a cayman?
porsche couldn't go this way now unless they repositioned the model line up...911's are still light cars compared to their competitors.
francisb said:
Fruitcake said:
I think a more focused 911 is the way forward. Start thinking about how to lose weight and increase fun, delicacy, tactility, immediacy and involvement rather than power. Lotus did it with a little car in the mid 1990s, so we know it works.
or buy a 964rs?
It's not a new 911 though is it?
I believe Porsche have said that a Cayman CS maybe an option, but RS, no.
If they did make an RS based around the GT1 block, I'd buy one.
Engine power --- the flat six will run out to 4 litres ad 450bhp in normally aspirated spec.
Eight cylinders would make it larger (losing the rear seats) and increase frictional losses, --- why would they ?
If they did make an RS based around the GT1 block, I'd buy one.
Engine power --- the flat six will run out to 4 litres ad 450bhp in normally aspirated spec.
Eight cylinders would make it larger (losing the rear seats) and increase frictional losses, --- why would they ?
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